being cautious again

[jeep]

I moved a pair from a 50g planted tank into a smaller 29g BB tank about 2 weeks ago and all went just fine. They laid eggs right on schedule. The male always seems to do his job but then eats the eggs. I know it's typical behavior for a young pair, but I went ahead and screened the eggs just to see if there were any results because he appears to fertilize like crazy. All eggs turned white.

The problem is that 1 day after I screened the eggs, the female started being really shy and has had her head burried in the corner of the tank (like she's afraid) ever since and does not appear to be eating. Every once in awhile I hear a lound "thunk". Sounds like banging off the walls, cone ad hood. As soon as I look around, everything appears normal and I have seen no injuries.

Before they spawned, I noticed her breathing rapidly and out of one gill at times (flukes), and when she's breathing out of both gills, respiration seems normal. The males' breathing is a little rapid at times (normal at other times), but both gills operate together.

Water paramiters are all normal with w/c @ 30% daily. seeded sponge filter, temp. is at 84 deg, feces is dark and chunky (feed beef heart mix). No discoloration and fins are not clamped. I began treatment for flukes with Fluke Tabs last night.

Is she having a hard time adjusting to the new/smaller non-planted tank? I have seen others use regular galvanized screening material and this is what I used. Could the screen be leaching zinc into the water and causing stress?

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be a descriptive as possible and try to catch a potential problem asap.

Thanks,

Brian

P.S. If this belongs somewhere else, sorry. I didn't know if this is water quality, breeding or illness related...

[brewmaster15]

Brian,
All the eggs turned white? Doesn't sound like he is doing his job. Are you sure its a male. Females can pair up with females and really fool you, also the male may not be mature yet.

Whats your hardness, conductivity? usually that will lead to a poor hatch rate if its too high, but a few usually make it. If all are white... it sounds like its a male who ain't a male or is just way too young.

-al

[jeep]

Thanks Al,

It's my opinion that he's just too young, barely a year, but he sure is a monster at about 7". He has physical charateristics of a male and Gabe agreed from a pic I sent to him. Plus, he got into a deadly fight with another male I have that tried moving in on his territory when I had to place them together for a day, but he gets along with other known females. I could be totally wrong though.

I don't know conductivity, but TDS is at 68, Ph is at 6.5.

I've learned a lot about the delayed maturity in males from this forum, but my main concern was with the females' recent behavior and I was just trying to describe the details of their environment and why I have taken the steps that I have.

Thanks,

Brian

[keno]

Hey Brian, let us know how the treatment with fluketabs goes. I used them about 5 years and my guys took it very hard, darted everywhere and lost color in their eyes for a while. How did yours do?

Ken

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Jeep:
Pull the screen out, do a couple big water changes and see if she improves . . . . does she get along with this male?
Carol :heart1:

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Keno,

Thanks for confirming that fact for me. I too am using Fluke Tabs now and have notice that my Discus turned several shades of gray as well as lose color in their eyes. I thought it was the water temperature that was doing this but sorta suspected the Fluke Tabs but wasn't sure till now.

How long do you continue the Fluke tab for??


Cheers,

Chi.

hey all,
I too thought that I had gill flukes all up in my tanks, but i now believe i was wrong. After several lengthy discussions with Cary, it has become my belief that gill flukes are rather rare and bacterial infections are quite often misdiagnosed as gill flukes. I did the whole shabang treatment for flukes, including totally breaking down all my tanks and doing the tripple dip on the fish w/ salt, meth blue, and hyde. The fish still have what I thought they had before, and I now realize that it is a bacterial infection. They could still have it because the stress from all the moving i did with them would make them suseptible to it. So...i'd try to treat for a bacterial infection first - temp 84-86, 3 tbs. salt/10 gallons, and 4 drops meth blue/10 gallons and see how that goes. It's working great for me right now. Any questions...call Cary and he'll set ya straight...lol
HTH
Brad

[keno]

Hey Brian, I never went back to fluketabs again as I found it way to much for discus, so I cant give you the term but it will most likely knock your pair off breeding for a while. If I were in your shoes I would use plastic screen instead of steel, as it maybe leaching something in your water. And chill out with the meds for now since you just used fluke tabs, more meds may only cause more stress.

What are the fishes symptoms now since the fluke tabs? Is she back to eating yet and hows he doing?

Ken

[jeep]

Hi all,

I was told to expect a change in eye color as well as a shedding of the slime coat and some discoloration in the body. This seems like a terrible thing to do, but I was told it is not harmful or really discomforting. They actually seem to be breathing rather comfortably at this time, even though the female still has her face burried in the corner.

I removed the screen yesterday and did a 50% W/C and then proceeded with the fluke tab treatment. I'm due for another 30% W/C tonight along with another follow-up treatment with the tabs. Tomorrow the regular care continues. Her condition has not changed for better or worse. I hope she was just depressed because I kept the eggs from her. I know discus are emotional, but do they get depressed? :(

The reason I suspected flukes, other than the symptoms I described, is because early on I had my fish in with other store bought fish and a big apple snail before I found this forum and knew any better. The other fish have been gone for at least 6 months now, so there's really nothing new other than the female's recent behavior. The male pushes her arounds a lot, but not in a mean way. More like innocent horse-play or puppy-love. Makes me mad though, I want eggs!

Chi, the fluke tab treatment is 1 tab for 10gal. 30% W/C at 24 hours then re-dose. 24 hours later a 50% W/C and you're done. I was also tols that they will make the next batch of eggs bad, but my male seems nt to be fertile anyway...

Thanks,

Brian

P.S. Thanks Keno, I've looked all over the place for plastic screening material for 5 weeks, but I can't find anything as small as the metal. Since I saw Mike Wells using it, I went with that. Others have asked about something leeching into the water, but no one really said yes or no. I don't think I'll risk it any more. I know they use zinc in the galvanizing process and as corrosive as r/o water is, I would think something would escape into the water... I'm right in the middle of the tab treatment, so I'll go ahead and finish it unless I see changes in the female...

[Carol_Roberts]

go to a craft store. They sell plastic grid canvas that is perfect.
Carol :heart1:

[jeep]

Thanks Carol. That sounds exactly what I'veen looking for.

[April]

Jeep. alot of people use chicken wire and all fine..but i used the hardware cloth with squares. and mine did the exact same thing as yours are doing. now i have gutter guard . plastic. im sure the hardware cloth caused it with mine. and all my wigglers fell off the cone and onto the ground and died once hatching. so im convinced it was the zinc welds that caused this.
good luck and let us know. if all the eggs are white..id do a good water change.

[Rod Coleman]

Hi Brian,
I wouldn't risk the galvanised mesh. Zinc is extremely toxic to fish and it does leach into the water but I'm not sure how quickly. I killed a couple of my first fish by doing a water change with water from a galvanised rainwater tank.

Regards

Rod

[jeep]

Thanks Rod and April,

I had seen the screening in several posts so that's what I went with. I probably put over 500 miles on my car going to all the hardware stores in town looking for the plastic when there's a Hobby Lobby 2 blocks away. I wish I had though of going there.

I think I'll end the fluke treatment early and start changing the water. I hope I didn't hurt her too badly!
Brian

[jeep]

I went ahead and ended the fluke treatment early and did 2 50% w/c's in the past 3 hours and she seems to be coming around. I think I'll add some salt and increase temp for while.

Thanks!