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View Full Version : Mechanical Filtration - A challenge



11-16-2002, 05:18 PM
I'm trying to develop some way to mechanically filter multiple tanks. That's the challenge. How would you do it. The end result that I'm looking for is the clarity and cleanliness that you get from hanging a HOT Magnum on your tank for an hour or two but I don't want to suck up the food, nor do I want to buy one of these per tank, nor clean that many filters or see them hanging on the front of my tanks. But in the end I'd like the bulk of the crap that sits on the tank bottom to be gone by the time I come to do a water change so I just wipe the bottom & siphon. I've got some ideas of how to do this but I tend to overcomplicate things so I'm asking for ideas before I start. Either answer this post or IM or email me.

Dave

daninthesand
11-16-2002, 11:31 PM
Dave.

I reread your post and realize I did not answer your question. By mechanical filtration I was thinking automation. My mistake.

So I deleted my earlier post to avoid any confusion.

Daniel

11-16-2002, 11:46 PM
I read it briefly dan but planned to come back to it for more detail. It did seem more like automating water changes. I'm trying to come up with a way to connect a Magnum 350 filter with a micron insert to a group of tanks. I want to stick the output at the bottom of each tank so it shoots across the tank floor and the input at the other end of the tank, also on the bottom. I figure if I can hook up the hoses through some garden sprinkler valves attached to a timer I can have each tank run for an hour, then cycle to each tank for about an hour. I would have it also connect to my tall holding tank so it could run there for an hour while I am feeding so the food doesn't just get sucked up. I'm going to test the filter alone on my 180 next week. I've got the input & output pipes in place and now I just need to run it. The last time I tried one of these it leaked so I need to wait until I have some time to test it & watch it. These filters are so strong they'll overwhelm a 30g tank so I'll need to be able to crank down the output on certain lines. It should work and allow me to only clean the one micron each day or two rather than one for each tank. That's as far as I've thought it through at this point. I'd love to have others jump in and tell me where I'm forgetting easier ways.. or suitable equipment to do what I want. I still plan to do water changes but I love the look of my tanks after an hour of micron filtering. I just don't want that many filters to clean and I think it will work better if the water is shooting off of the floor rather then the normal position.

Dave

Upper Canada
11-17-2002, 01:59 AM
Dave, an alternative which you may have tried or dismissed is to run the tanks involved as a system with a central sump. In addition to the regular passive mechanical filter in the sump I added a Vortex earth filter. Because the water was prefiltered I found that the Vortex needed cleaning every 2 weeks. All water was filtered continously. Also the water entering the tanks from the sump is directed by a spray bar along the side of the tank instead of just falling in and the current pushes much of the detritus to the opposite side of the tanks for siphoning.

Bob

daninthesand
11-17-2002, 05:57 PM
Bob. Welcome to the forum.

And Dave, I agree with Bob. If you plan to use what is basically a central mechanical filtering system with the one or two filters sharing the tankwater from all tanks (much like sharing the same siphon for all tanks) it just makes no sense in my mind to try and keep the individual tanks, like mini quarantine units.

I've decided to forget that idea because I have no intention to use different siphons for each tank. That is just plain crazy, and I guarantee I'll never be disciplined enough to do it.

So for me, it might be easier to go central. Now as far as cleaning up the bottom crud, I've been racking my brains about how to do this efficiently. In my mind there are a number of ways to try and achieve this.

You could, as I stated in my earlier (deleted) post try and put your output hose or tube near the bottom of the tank. In fact you could drill the bottom of each tank and just make sure there is a J tube that comes off the bulkhead and rises up to sit above the top level of the tank. This way it will not empty the tank dry no matter what happens.

Or you could drill the bulkhead on the side, and simply run a slip fitting down the inside along the wall so the tip of the tube just sits above the bottom. Any crap will get sucked into the tube.

A sloping floor design is impractical unless one plans to rebuild all his tanks. But for someone starting out the first time, this might be an option.

You could also as Bob suggested somehow make the currents in each tank naturally sweep the debris to the output tube. With a constant current, hopefully it will keep the debris going out the tube. However, as you mentioned, newly added food will also get swept away never to be eaten.

So your goal is not an easy one. I suppose you could turn off the flow for a while and let the fish eat the food, but as we all know the likelyhood of forgetting to turn things back on is quite likely. At least in my fishroom it is. If this was simply a mechanical filter (and not a biological one) that would not be such a big deal.

If however the mechanical was also the biological, you could get around this by installing a timer that turns off the pump for a preset amount of time, feed the fish, and the timer would turn the filtering pump back on after the alloted time. You have to be there to feed anyway, so setting the timer with each feed would not add alot of work.

And finally, a real easy solution would be to just have a sump linked to all the tanks, and just run the hot magnum in the sump. Or hang it on the sump of the central biological filter. This would achieve the same thing as hanging a smaller HOT Magnum on each tank. Your actual biological filtration could be sponges in each tank, or what have you.

Dave these are just ideas i have. I have not actually put any of them in place. My real goal is to automate siphoning of debris. I plan to go central for the majority of my tanks. But until I get a working model of a self siphoning system, they are all just ideas.

You've probably thought of all these yourself, but if you have'nt, then maybe it will help.

Daniel

11-17-2002, 06:44 PM
Well, 3 of my tanks are centrally filtered. But that does not address cleaning the tank bottom. The water overflows and does tend to draw the crap towards the box but doesn't remove it. The centrally filtered tanks are my cleanest by far.

I'm trying to avoid drilling my 6 30g tanks & 2 65g tanks as well as running hoses all over the place. And I have no room for another sump, my current sump is only large enough for the tanks it filters already. So I'm working on something like what you're talking about dan... the input and output from the Magnum would be submerged right to the bottom of the tank so it pushes & removes crap. I don't see why this filter won't work on a timers with valves going to each tank. The timer would prevent me from forgetting to set stuff on / off. I would just have the first valve be set to my holding tank so the filter would circulate the tank for X minutes before starting on an aquarium Then it could cycle through the tanks and then go back to the holding tank. As I said, I'll get it running on my 180g tank this week and see if it cleans the bottom as well as I think it will.

Dave

joanr
11-17-2002, 07:07 PM
Dave, There is a line of heavy duty micron filters by Ocean Clear that run inline. Some models for just mechanical, some do both bio and mechanical, one even has a UV. I've seen one at a LFS run a few of their show tanks and the water is extra crystal clear. Very nice. Not too expensive considering. I know they have them at www.petsolutions.com. Could be the solution for you for polishing multiple tanks. Eheim makes a bottom sludge remover but I don't know much about it or if it would work for you.

JR

11-23-2002, 02:57 PM
I hooked up the Magnum 350 with micron insert on my 180g. I added some 1/2" PVC pipe with 90º elbows to the intake & output pipes on the filter so they rested on the tank bottom. Now the water shoots out diagonally across the tank bottom and the intake sucks it up from the tank bottom. I thoroughly cleaned the glass and started the filter on Monday. It works great. I had to remove & clean the micron on Wednesday and today (Saturday) so that's about how long it lasts. I turn it off for an hour while feeding and then back on after. The filter runs all night. When I do a water change there is barely anything anywhere on the tank bottom. The odd piece of crap that was recently dropped, but that's about it. That doesn't have a huge effect on cleaning as siphoning is pretty easy but it does keep the glass a lot cleaner and the water is sparkling clean. All in all I love it & will continue it on the 180g.

Now I'm going to connect another Magnum 350 to 3 of my 55g tanks. I'm just going to use ball joints to route the intake & output lines to each tank for now... the cost of solenoid valves & timers etc. exceeds the cost of just getting 3 Magnum 350 filters. So for now I'll just use one filter and switch it from tank to tank for quick cleaning. Since the tanks are about 1/3 the size of the 180g I figure that in an hour it will totally polish the water and clean the tank bottom. We'll see.

Dave

EthanCote.com
11-23-2002, 04:11 PM
Hi Dave,

Any chance of taking a pic of what you are talking about? It will help illustrate your points much more clearer. You know the say, "a picture is worth a thousand words".

Thanx.


Cheers,

Chi.

Discusgeo
11-23-2002, 04:57 PM
Dave maybe I can help. I have a friend who use to raise Discus by the hundreds and I can tell you how his breeders were setup. They were in a 125 gallon tank made from acrylic. The tank was dived into 4 parts for 4 pairs. Along the entire back of the tank was a built in overflow system that was connected to a 2 or 3 inch PVC pipe that flowed into a homemade sand filter that held about 50 gallons of warm water. Connected to his sand filter was a large pump that returned the water to the front of the tanks where he put shut off valves in front of each section which prevented the water from going back into the sandfilter. This pump was not running all the time just when he needed to clean the tank. He had a switch near the tanks to turn on the pump. With the tank drilled in front, he installed and L shape piece of PVC pipe on the inside with a T fitting on the bottom. When the large pump was turned on, it forced the clean water towards the bottom stirring up everything and all of it went thru the overflow system. But before the dirt went into the sandfilter the waste went into a fine mesh bag that caught it all. When he was done all he would do is empty the bag of waste and the sand polished the water. This worked very well and with the water current going thru the tank his Discus also got some excercise. Also he had a small sump pump and a heater or two in the sand filter to circulate the water. I think he replace the water in the sand filter every other week.
George

12-09-2002, 08:13 PM
It's up & running now. It's been working for a week and works well. The Magnum 350 is sitting on the ground connected to the 2 white PVC lines. There's a shutoff valve on each line so the unit can be turned off for filter cleaning without draining the tanks on the floor. Each line has a ball valve connected to a hose running to a J tube with a PVC pipe that goes to the tank floor on each tank. So there's an incoming water and outgoing water line going to each tank. By closing & opening 2 valves the filter can be switched to any tank I want. I only have 3 tanks on this filter, that's enough. It works great, takes about 2 hours to polish the water and remove most of the crap from the tank floor. One tank gets it running all night and that tank is spotless in the morning. I rotate the nightly tank. These 3 tanks are already on a central wet/dry so there's no concern about mixing water. And while the wet/dry does a great job of both mechanical & biological filtration this does an amazing job of water polishing and with the long pipes it gets the crap off of the tank bottom. I have to remove & clean the micron filter every 3-4 days but that just means tossing it in some bleach and sticking in another one. With the shutoff valves right above the filter, and the filter sitting on a 2x6 piece of wood that's a very easy job. It also self-primes and starts up right away too. So far, so good.

Here's your picture Chi.

Dave

Don_Lee
12-09-2002, 08:35 PM
Thanks for sharing Dave! That looks like an efficient setup, and very well put together.

Don ;D

PS-now if only I could get my wet/dry to stop gurgling........lol

12-09-2002, 08:37 PM
By gurgling do you mean at the overflow? If so just drop about 2 feet of air hose down the overflow pipe and attach it to something so it doesn't go right down the hose. The gurgling will stop. If you mean the water entering the sump, just raise the sump water level.

Dave

Don_Lee
12-09-2002, 08:45 PM
Dave, you are THE MAN! Yahoo, I just took your suggestion and it worked like a charm. Thanks buddy!

Don ;D