What kind of wood do you use for fishroom?

[Fish_Fin-atic]

I went down to the local wood store earlier today hoping to pick out some wood for my fish-room to be. I was just going to pick up some white pine 2X4's, but as I was walking through the aisles, I started thinking (always a bad sign ;D)

I thought to myself, why should I buy cheap-looking wood to build a fish room which is meant to house one of the most beautiful of aquarium fish ??? I mean, people will drop a couple of hundred bucks just to build a stand for a fish tank...so why should I spend less than the cost of one tank stand when I'm building racks for 10 tanks?!

Then I got to wondering (also a bad sign ;D) Which wood would be better. I looked at cedar (water resistant but maybe too flexible), birch (weak?), Red Oak (looked great, and strong, but maybe a tad on the heavy side?) and they had a bunch of specialty woods availlable for special order only. And I also thought about painting the cheaper pine wood, or using veneer covering. So....the question is, what wood should a woodchuck use if a woodchuck could use wood ;D ;D ;D (sorry...couldn't help myself) Any opinions??

[Denny]

i guess it all comes down to what do you want to end up with? if you are going to build racks for breeding tanks i would say use pine and if you want to clean up the look, then paint them. then spend the money you saved on more fish.

and if you want a formal look to the room, i would do the same thing, pine for the racks, and then use something like oak to face the fronts. that will be good looking and cheaper than using the oak for the structure.

of course if you have the money to burn, 4x4 walnut with mortise and tenon joinery would really make an impact.

denny

spruce 2x4's and 2x6's
4" screws and titanium bolts.

doesnt look too nice, but functional

more

[Fish_Fin-atic]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I could just build the racks out of the cheaper pine 2x4's and then cover up the framework with nicer wood. Is there any advantage to either Walnut or Spruce? I think that Walnut would bankrupt me, unless there's a way to make racks out of walnut husks ;D

Now this brings me to yet another question...

Is the rack stronger when you use screws to hold the structure together (as in PhishPhantasy's pics) or is it stronger when you cut a notch into the vertical boards, and insert the horizontal boards into this notch? Maybe a combination of both methods would be the way to go? Looking at your pics PhishPhantasy, kinda makes me nervous. Have you tried filling the tank with water yet? It looks to me like two pieces of wood for all that weight....well :-\ Is that strong enough??

[Cowboy]

It would be strong enough, but I'd be a little nervous about the possibility that one of the rails could warp. With really dry wood they shouldn't, but I tend to be on the safe side. With long stands I would put at least one stile (piece going up and down) in. I do all my own cabinetry work and for my 4' stand I put in a center stile. On my 5' stand I used 2 and made it with 3 doors. A 1/2" piece of styrofoam between tank and stand does a good job of removing stress points.
HTH Todd

[Rod]

I like using hardwood 4X4 legs and 3x2 rails, checked joints and bolted together. Super strong and very long lasting. My pine stands only lasted about 5 years before the rot setin. I guess i you are super careful about spills etc they would last longer, but i like to make a splash when i'm waterchanging and with hardwood stands they will handle any water spills i have. This a pic showing the joints.

[rkingmd]

Hey Fish,
Just a thought, if you go out 401 west to exit 299, Route 6 south and follow it south for about 6-8 km, there's a REDWOOD patio outfit there that I'm sure could help you build a really nice rack!! Rick

yes, they hold, there is more structure that you can't see because of the styro.

I'ts the bolts that carry the weight, not the wood.

[Smokey]

have you all forgot about FIR.. very strong, stronger than pine or spruce; resists water rot; excellant to work with, and very stable. Like cowboy mentioned, use 1 inch styro to set the tanks on, you will be glad you did!!. Bolt all wood together, and set the shelves on top of the vertical supports.
If you want the best product-- use steel !! 2" x 2" x 1/4'; or pick up some used steel racks.. cheap, secure, and most important od all they do last forever..

i have built wooden racks for customers; all different sizes, and when then final costs are added up, the steel generally cost less. The labour, for welding, usually is the highest outlay; unless you got a buddy and a case of beer.

laugh if you want, but my steel stands/racks are over 10 years old, and are as good as new.

and they will return my investment if and when I deceide to sell them.
p.s. I am a profession steel fabracater by trade.( had to earn a living somehow) . and I know you can get a lot of welding labour for a box of BEER ..LOL P.S what ever you choose instal threaded levelers... that is a given. I have never found a floor surface that was level!!!!

Smokey
frosted around the edges

[Discusgeo]

Fish_Fin-atic in my Fish room all my stands are steel, now in my house you can see from the picture the stand and hood I built are all Red Oak. The frame is 2 x 4 and the tank on the stand is 180 gallons with 10 Angel Blue Diamonds from Cary at GLD. It was still early in the morning when I took this shot so the Discus are still in the back. I want you guy's to notice how the plants are in the tank. I purchased those planters from Home Depot and they are plastic. What they are sold are are containers that you put under house plant to catch any excess water when they are watered. Now I can keep the tank bare bottom for easy cleaning and the wife get's her plants. If my picture is not shown at the moment it is because I exceeded my daily limit of 60MB of viewing. I guess I will have to increase my limits at Village Photos.
George
http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=1105681

[daninthesand]

I used spruce 2 x 4's and I screwed them together with long decking screws. All joints were glued with waterproof construction adhesive. Believe me this will never let go!

You could go the route of using pressure treated wood for the hunidity resistance, but I thought about this and did not want to risk the possibility of the preservative maybe dripping into the tank due to frequent water spills. It contains arsenic!

If you want this to be attractive and not just be a bunch of rough boards slapped together then I wish you luck. Oak is a wonderfull wood and very strong. It has a tendecy to turn black if it ever gets wet. Even with a good quality finish on it, over time the butt edges of joints willleak spilled water into them and the wood might discolour. I've bulit a couple of oak cabinets in my day nad it always seems to happen eventually. I guess you have to determine how often there will be water spills.

Cedar was mentioned. It has great water resistance qualities, but it has no strength. I would not use it for stands. It would look great on the wall though!

Fir is a great choice too as smokey said. It is stronger than pine and fir, readily available, usually takes a stain quite well without becoming blotchy. Pine and fir tend to do this.

HTH
Daniel

[Fish_Fin-atic]

Okay....WOW :o I think, that instead of narrowing down my choices, I just got more! :)

That's the great thing about this forum! At least now I know what kind of glue to use (waterproof construction adhesive), and that I should use stiles as support (although I don't think I can do this for the top tanks - can I) and a 1/2" styrofoam bottom is a must (I already have this part) and I'm going to use heavy bolts or screws for extra support.

As for wood, I guess we've managed to cross off Cedar (too weak) and Red Oak (because it blackens, and I'm a messy water changer ;D). All that's left is the Redwood (thanks for the tip Rick, I'll look into it for sure) and either the Fir or Spruce. By the way, that is a gorgeous stand Discusgeo :)

I think I may go with the Fir, and then maybe spruce it up (no punn intended ;D) on the outside with another more "showy" type of wood. I thought about metal racking, but I have no idea where to find scrap steel, and the idea of a drunken welder working on my fish racks :o :o :o ;D Just kidding. I may consider steel racks in the future, but for now I'll just stick with wood. Thanks for all your input guys!

[Denny]

if you use fir, remember one thing: it is alot mre brittle than pine or spruce, so you need to pre drill all holes or the wood will split. btw, if you use construction lumber it is labled as SPF. that means it is spruce, pine or fir. unless you know what to look for, 95% of people cannot tell the difference between the 3 when they are intermixed in a unit of 2x4's.

when you run into fir more is in wider boards like 2x8's,2x 10's and 2x 12's. you also get great slivers from fir, the most memorable slivers i ever got were from a project i worked on that was made of quartersawn doug fir to match an arts and crafts house. the slivers are very log, stiff and sharp and when they went in, they generally didn't stop until the bone. it still sends chills down my spine thinking about it. and that wood cost the customer a small fortune. i think it was about $6 per lin ft for 1x6 s4s. ouch.it is alot cheaper if you buy #3 from a lumber yard but then you get all of the knots.

what are you going to do with the floor walls and ceiling in your fishroom?

denny

[Denny]

btw,

there is nothing weak about birch, the big drawback now is the trees that they are cutting are younger and do not have the tight growth rings of the trees from the past where they had a full canopy overhead so the wood will twist and warp when ripped to widths less than 4". for this reason it has been all but replaced by hard maple which most closely resembles birch if it is stained. maple is between oak and cherry in price and is harder than either of them

one other wood to look at is ash. it is strong(baseball bats, rake handles, axe handles...)cheap(1/2 the price of oak from my supplier).good for the environment(grows faster,straighter and in more locations than oak) and if you stain it 95% of people will never know it is not oak. much of the furniture sold in stores like tables, chairs and lamps are ash and not oak due to their lower cost and the fact that they resemble each other(ash has similar pore pattern but much smaller pore size.


denny

[limige]

smokey, when building steel racks how do you finish them? do you blast them and paint or what?

2x2x1/4, i take it you mean sq tubing, do you have any pics? i've been thinking about going this route but don't have a sandblaster and don't want a rust pile. i've got a buddy that's an awesome welder so thats not a problem, also what exatly do you use for levelers? just bolts or can you buy some with a hex and swivel feet?

[Smokey]

Limige; no, angle iron; 2 x 2 x 1/4 " thick. the stuff is really cheap. For finish, well if the steel has been kept inside, it is usually prettry clean, so a light sanding is all that is necessary. For the finish, I just use a steel paint, cann't think of the name at the monent..TREMCLAD... THATS IT!!! available at all box hardware stores. Or jsut pick up a gallon of good old outdoor paint and brush it on.. Lots of coats. fOR THE ADJUSTERS.. I USED 3/4 INCH allthread and welded big washers for the foot pad, set on hockey pucks after. Cut 6" long, weld a 3/4" nut on the inside of the angle iron, and a nut/washer on the allthread; this will give you all the adjustment , leveling needed. The 3/4' all thread is again cheap and will carry all the weight; 1/2" coarse thread ok, but go for the 3/4".. OVERBUILD!!!!. Never needed to sandblast, by the time every thing is handled and welded the stuff is clean. Square tubing is more money to get the same strenght.and a hell of a lot heavier.... go with the 1/4 inch angle iron...Usually a couple of 22 foot lengths is all you need.

Add up the cost of using wood and all the fasteners, sealants,etc.. steel does work out lees expensive.. Labour being the big$$$$$..

Never met a drunken welder in my life!!!!! sure have met a lot of wood bashers with only 8 finger, though ........LOL...

Smokey
got questions... just ask!

Smokey's receipe for levelers :thumbsup:

Use 3 inch by 1/2 inch bolts ,( get grade 3 or grade 5 bolts with complete thread) or us all thread,.
Next... to the head of the bolt. weld a large diameter washer.. 2-1/2 inch- thick mat.l. This will sit on the hocky puck!
Next.. the nut.. washer or a piece of 1/4 inch steel plate with a hole drilled in the center for the bolt thread to pass through. to fit the bottom of the 4 x 4 leg.
....drill at least - 2 - 3/16th inch holes in the nut washer.. this is to allow you to attach it to the bottom of the wooden leg with scews. Kind of hold it in place.
Drill a 5/8 inch hole in the centre of the wooden leg bottom. the bolt has to travell into the hole as you adjust the height,
Attach the nut/plate to the bottom of the legs.. Thread the bolt/washer into it completely.. wala finished.

SET everything on top of the hocky pucks. No water will seep under the pucks... and ADJUST to your hearts content.

Ps.If adjusting more than 1/3rd the bolt lenght,( 3 inch bolts = 1 inch adjustment; the more thread in the wooden legs the better for stability.) use longer bolts.. or just use all-thread to start with. Even 3/4 inch is better.. and inexpensive !

[limige]

thanks for the quick replies, i'm gonna talk to my boss today about ordering some angle iron today and see what their price is! nice thing about working in a die shop!

thanks for the tip on the pucks, must say it would have never crossed my mind thanks,

besides you can always screw a wooden face on if you don't want to see the steel!!

heres my plan, i have a crappy wall under my staircase in my basement. the staircase ends right on the edge of the basement so there is a decent wall there, on one side it's a partially finished basement and the other is my washer/dryer, water lines and drains.

so i'm gonna rip out the wall and put my racks in there so i can service the tanks from the rear but it will be more of a show room on the opp. side. i wiggled a loveseat down there somehow, hehe. be my fish watching room.

[limige]

oh another q.

on the surface the tanks sit on, did you 45 the corners where they come together to get a flat surface?

on 6-8 foot long stands, double stacked tanks how do you support the front center? is the steel strong enough for those larger tanks in the front?

[Denny]

how did we get from looking for a better looking wood than pine to angle iron? if you want an industrial look for cheap get gorilla racks. they are cheaper than you can get the materials for and they adjust so you can reconfigure you tank setups as you expand. and if you want to dress them up go get some table skirts or look for tips on HGTV.

smokey, i know several welders who are drunks and i can type with all 10 fingers ;D

as for oak turning black, that is due to inferior finishing or only finishing the face and not the back side so water comes in the back door behind the finish. a gloss marine spar varnish will give you a finish that will look great long after your angle iron turns red with rust. the thing is welding is an easy one step process while wood you need to think things through. you can't just slap it together and expect some magic to shoo away the moisture. ;)

denny

[Don_Lee]

At the risk of sounding really stupid...does one have to treat the steel shelving units for water exposure? Will they rust and fall apart at some point??

Don ;D

[Fish_Fin-atic]

Denny, Sorry I couldn't reply earlier. My computer at home seemsto have some sort of a virus, so I couldn't log on last night. I put the CPU into my quarantine tank, raised the temp., and added lots of salt. It should be fine when I get home tonight ;D ;D ;D

Anyhow, all this debate between metal, and wood racking....what a choice. I think that you've convinced me though. I want the fish room to look good, and I'm sure wood will do the trick for me. I'm definately going to check the Ash prices out. It's a very nice looking wood, especially the heartwood. I knew that it was used for tool handles, and I guess I just assumed that it must be expensive because of this (I thought they used Ironwood for this purpose, and I know Ironwood is expensive). I know that Ash is one of the least likely woods to warp, and that's definately a good thing for this application. I really didn't like the sound of those Fir splinters - I've heard many bad stories about those things...OUCH! :o
So....looks like it's going to be Ash!

As for the floors and walls; for now, I'm just going to go with a fresh coat of paint on the walls. Eventually, I may go for some sort of panelling, who knows. The floor was a bit of a puzzle for me as well. I think as of right now, my plan is to make a giant wooden frame (like a picture frame) which will fit just inside the walls of the room. To this frame, I'm going to staple a pool liner. This will spare my walls, and floors from being stapled, and therefore damaged. It will also provide some protection in the unlikely event (knock on wood ;) ) that a tank should leak. I'm toying with the idea of throwing a cheap rug or something, over the pool liner to give the floor some stable footing, and make the room look better too. Apparently, pool liners only come in blue (here's a tip for any pool liner manufacturers out there - try making them in different colours (wood grain, or black would be nice!!! It worked for Ford!) :)