how to treat!!? help! look here! emergency

[zzbruinzz]

hi all,
I've been reading stuff on this forum for awhile. I decided to join b/c i have an emergency. My leopard skin about 3.5in has a growth of some sort near the gill plate. Not on the edge of the gill plate but on the other slit closer to the mouth. there are white bumps and i noticed that some of the flesh is exposed (skin is raw). i do a 25-30% WC/day. Ph is at 7.5. No ammonia, no nitrite. please help...i placed him in a 20 gallon quarantine tank. he still eats but he is very dark in color. thanks.
andy

[DarkDiscus]

Andy,

Welcome to the board, though I'm sorry it took a sick fish to get you to post. Please check out this thread and provide us with additional information as requested:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1082

In the meantime, I would suggest increasing your w/c on the q/tank to 50% daily. No matter what the problem is - bacterial infection, fungal infection or parasite, clean water to prevent secondary infections is key!

Give us some more info to work on and I'm sure someone will be able to help!

Thanks!

John

[zzbruinzz]

Hi here again,
Sorry i didn't provide enough info. Hope this helps.

Physical condition of the fish
1. visible parasites (describe) – gill plate has exposed flesh and white bumps
2. stringy feces - No
3. head standing - No
4. bloated/ constipated - No
5. Hole in the head, lateral line erosion – how does this look? Not sure.
6. spots, salt like flecks, velvety appearance,cotton like growths etc. I see white spots on the gill plate
7. excessive slime production – Not sure
8. labored breathing, disfunctional gill – Breathing is fine
9. cloudy eyes - No
10.darkened color - Yes
11. faded color - No
12. other unusual changes...


Water parameters
1. pH? - 7.5
2. Temperature… 86-88
3. hardness? Don’t know
4. conductivity? Don’t know
5. TDS? Don’t now
6. R/O (reverse osmosis) filtered, or Tap (well or chlorinated city water), rain water – Tap water
7. Water change regime? ( example .. 30 % daily, weekly monthly etc) – 25-30% dailyy
8. appearance (cloudy, green , clear, yellowish etc) - Dark
9. Odor (smells clean or sulfur-lit match smell-anaerobic indicator) – No odor

Tank parameters
1. Size in gallons/liters? Was kept w/ 4 other in a 40 gallon, now in a 20gallon quarantine; bullying was not a problem b/c he was at the top of the pecking order
2. Substrate.? (bare glass, gravel, sand..) - Barebottom
3. Planted? – No plants
4. Drift wood? – No drift wood

Filter types
1 Wet/dry? - No
2. Canister? - No
3. hanging box( aquaclear whisper etc)? – Whisper 2
4. sponges? – 2 hydrosponge 4’s with airstones ( 20 gallon quarantine just has 1 hydrosponge 4, no power filter)
5. supplimental Peat filter? - No
6. supplimental air? – just from the hydro’s
7. Carbon, resin exchanges, ammo-chips etc - No


Lighting( Important for algae problems and plant growth)
1. Hood – yes has hood, flourescent
2. bulb type size, watts, spectrum (ex 5000K daylight) – not sure, but I don’t use it much because I get sunlight in the house during the days and at night my house lights are on
3. light/dark cycle (number hours on/off) – lights are hardly used


General….
1. Diet(what and how often do you feed you fish? – 3X daily, Colorbits/tetramin flake, Live CBW, frozen bloodworms, and occasionally beefheart
2. Other tank occupants than discus? - None
3. How many Discus in your tank? - 4
4. How long have you had them? – 2 months
5. Where did you get them (breeder/ Local Fish Shop -LFS) – local breeder
6. Tank and filter cleaning schedule? – Wipe down tanks every 3 days, squeeze sponges weekly
7. Medications/ salt treatments recently used or tried to treat this problem? – I tried one dose of furan 2 yesterday thinking it was some aeromonas and I’ve also been adding 1tablespoon/10 gallon of salt

Thanks for you quick reply.

andy

[zzbruinzz]

John,

Thanks for the advice on increasing the water change. I think he/she is coming around. He's much lighter in color now. He's a leopard skin and i read the posts about leopards/LSS. I did have two leopards and one died for no reason!!!! fine one day, dead the next. Well anyways, thanks a million!!!

andy

[Francisco_Borrero]

From your description, it sounds as if you are doing everything right, and fortunately your fish seems to be coming around. A few comments from my experience (not that much):

1) A lot of people have observed that occassionally, small white "bumps", "pimples" or other such growths appear on our fish. With some frequency, this has been observed whenever water quality is at least slightly less than excellent, such as shortly after returning from an absence (thus a few days of no water changes). But sometimes these things have been reported even in seemingly fine water quality conditions, and this seems to be your case.
2) Most often, these growths are individual (that is, not clusters), although sometimes a fish may have more than one. Most often black coloration on the fish is NOT observed along with having a pimple(s).
3) Most often these things appear, stay a couple of days and disappear, even without treatment of any kind. They seem to leave no trace or scar on the fish.
4) The few times I have had these, I add salt at 3-4 tablespoons/10gal during 2-3 days or so (same amount each day after water changes, thus increasing the [salt] daily), and increase the temp a bit, to about 88F. The pimples have always gone away.
It is possible they may have gone away also without doing anything..

I hope this provides any light, though it provides no solutions nor explanations. I too would like to know what they are.
Good luck. Cheers, Francisco.

[zzbruinzz]

oh no he's dark again!!!! time for more water changes!!

[Carol_Roberts]

I've not seen anyone post of bumps on the gill plate cover close to the mouth. Maybe your discus has a virus or bacterial infection and the dark color makes the bumps more apparent? You haven't added anything new to tank? Keep up water changes and salt. if no improvement in a few days or it starts spreading to other fish try furan 2.
Carol :heart1:

[zzbruinzz]

hi carol,

I have been doing water changes along w/ salt treatment. I am also using furan 2 at the moment. I have done 3 treatments so far and the results are strange. BTW he is in a 20 gallon quarantine tank. Well, he would be dark and hiding in the morning so i do a 50% WC and treat w/ Furan 2. I come home at night after work and his color will lighten considerably and he'll come up to the tank wanting food. Then the next day he would be dark again. i have no idea what's going on. Do you think the furan 2/salt is working? should i up the temperature or leave it at 85?
Thanks.
andy

[Carol_Roberts]

Do you notice it more say a half hour after he eats?
Carol :heart1:

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Andy,

Not sure if this is what you are experiencing but my Discus tend to be a bit dark in the morning as well. I believe this to be normal since they are just waking up in the morning and haven't fully show their full colour. After half an hour or so later, their full colour will come out.

I imagine when the lights goes out, they gets dark in colour perhaps a physical sign of sleep or a way of camouflage??

Next time, wake up a little earlier than normal and take a look at him for an hour and see if his colour lighten up or not then.

Are others here experiencing the same thing with their discus?


Cheers,

Chi.


PS: If he is eating well then I'll probably wouldn't be too worry or concern about it. His sign of a good appetite is a good sign of health. JMO.

Haven't said that, of course keep an eye out for other physical signs of infection or disease.

[zzbruinzz]

It's the morning again and once again he's dark and hiding behind the hydrosponge. He's not swimming like normal and his whole body his dark. I'm sure there's something wrong but i just don't know what to do. Chi, i understand what you are talking about but the thing is i have some other discus which are very vibrant in color and come up to greet me. The leopard stays dark, that is until i come home from work. Is this an example of the furan2 taking effect and losing its effectiveness after 24hrs? anyone know how long furan 2 is effective in water? thanks.

andy

[fcdiscus]

IMO, it is probably a bacterial infection, and the furan2 is just not strong enough. I would increase the salt to 1 tbs per 2 gallons- 50%WC a day as you are doing, and use Neomycin for 6 days. Frank

[zzbruinzz]

thanks frank....i still have enough for 1 more treatment of furan2. I'll go get some neomycin tomorrow. BTW, will it kill of my biological filter? thanks.
andy

i wish i had a digicam to post a pic of his condition. darn!

[fcdiscus]

Yeah- but so what. You have him in a quarentine tank and are doing 50% WC. It will be ok. Use the Neo everyday- not the 3 of 5 days the package says, and make sure to do your WC. Keep up the WC ater the treatment. During treatment- Squeeze out your sponge everyday, and keep the glass clean all over and especially the bottom. Frank

[zzbruinzz]

thanks frank...will do!...
andy