tiny squiggles - PARASITIC WORMS?

[daninthesand]

Hi gang.

I am treating a q tank with salt. Mostly because one of the fish in there bumped its head and has a little wound on its head. I wanna try and prevent any secondary infection that might crop up. So I added 1 tbsp of salt per gallon of water.

Shortly after I added the salt I noticed what look to me like little squiggles in the tank. They are white, about 1/4 inch long, thinner than a hair, and seem to travel through the water like little spermatozoa. Sorry for the analogy but I don't know how else to describe it.

They appear to move with flagellate tails in a straight direction. They are not adhered to the glass but rather swim throughout the tank. There is no possible way I could take a picture, but I have drawn the typical shape they have. They move in the direction of the arrow and move very quickly.

They are NOT planaria. I have seen those and that's not it. And they are also not tapeworms since they are way too small and any tapeworm I ever saw never had that type of motility.

Any ideas what these are? I think they might be spironucleus parasitic worms but I'm not sure. I am searching the 'net to find out if I am correct. Hopefully I can find a pic.

Daniel

PS. the picture (depending on your screen resolution of course) is about 5 times actual size.
PSS. The fish in this tank are happy in general and eat and swim normally.

[daninthesand]

Nope. Not spironucleus. too big to be that. the search continues...

[EthanCote.com]

Hey Dan,

I do not have an answer for you but more questions. ;D

What is the condition of the QT tank? Was it newly set up for the sole purpose of QTing that fish?

If yes, then perhaps those things are from the fish.

If no, then did you used water from another tank or a filter media from another tank to seed the QT tank with beneficial bacterias? If this is the case, then do you also notice those things in the source tank?

Also do you use any peat in that QT tank? I have already read several thread on Simply that describe such things with peat usage.

Another possible source of them could be your water or food source??

Sorry for not having an answer to your problem, but I'm sure someone will come up with one for you.


Cheers,

Chi.

[daninthesand]

Hi Chi.

This tank was set up brand new. The filtration is a cycled sponge filter from another tank. This other tank was the tank of the fishes previous owner. This tank contains all the fish that were purchased together. They are all in the process of q tine. The injured fish is one of the nine. They are all still together in the same tank. Temp around 88.

So far my q tine methods seem to be working because I cannot see any of these "worms" in any of my other tanks. However this is the only tank with salt. Perhaps my other tanks harbor these worms too, but I cannot see any there. If the salt is what made these worms "appear" (ie they let go of the q time fish's body so i could see them in the water for example) then maybe that's why I see them now.

Nope no peat anywhere in my house.

[daninthesand]

not hexamita, anchor worm either....

My first description needs to be modified. The worm I see is really more like a worm than a flagellate. Flagellates tend to have a head and then one or more flagella (tails).

The things in my tank have no head that is clearly visible. The picture I drew is basically pretty accurate, albeit, crude. They almost look like white pieces of lint (which they are not btw :)) but the lint squiggles like a little snake but very rapidly. damn I wish I could find an illustrated atlas of fish parasites somewhere.

Daniel

[jeep]

I don't know if this will help, but you might try checking out this site.

http://130.158.208.53/WWW/PDB/Galleries/indexE.html

i'm pretty sure i know what they are. I forget the name...Cary told me...but they are harmless to your fish. They will, however, destroy your eggs if the fish are breeding. They multiply very rapidly, like if you shut off a filter for 10 minutes that has a few in it and turn it on hundreds of them will come out into the tank. The result from high protein levels in the water and are actually good for your fish to eat. The way to get rid of them is to up your water changes and watch how much you feed, as you may be overfeeding. I hope that helps. You don't need to really worry.
brad

[Discusgeo]

I believe they are harmless and came into the tank on your sponge filter. Wipe down the glass and do a 100 percent water change with aged water heated to the same temp as the Discus are in now. Reduce the amount of food you are feeding and do 50 percent water changes at least every other day until the Discus has healed. You got to keep the water crystal clear until the wound has healed.
George

[Denny]

these guys are right, i had them when our town was doing work on the water mains that hampered my ability to do water changes as often as i needed to.

the cure:

w/c w/c w/c w/c w/c w/c w/c w/c w/c w/c w/c...


denny

[cartoon]

I believe the squiggly worm you are seeing is a "Stylaria", according to the Handbook of Fish Diseases by Deiter Untergasser. These are harmless to your fish. The book stated that "Stylaria worms wriggle along under the surface of the water. They measure 1mm at most in thickness, but up to 4cm in length". IMO They look really scary under a microscope too, so be glad you can't see them close up!!! Peggy >*(((<

[daninthesand]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The more research I do the more I've come to realize these squiggles are likely capillaria.

Too bad though. Too little too late in this case.

http://www.microscopyu.com/moviegallery/pondscum/nematode/t1/nematode01.html

click on the "Play" (if you have high speed internet)

Identification of these critters would have been easy with a microscope and a look for the capillaria egg that looks like it has a plug at each end. Very typical (even diagnostic) of capillaria eggs.
http://www.internet-taubenschlag.de/medizin/bericht5/capillaria.jpg

If you have those white squiggles you mentioned before, I don't think it's capillaria, as I have treated for capilleria within the last month and still have the squiggles. Al has informed me that salt at 1 Tbs/1 gallon will kill them in 2 days, or that 1 Tbs/5 gallons will kill them in a few more days.

Brad

[Jason]

Dan,

I've seen those too!

I couple years ago I caught one and squished it onto a microscope slide, so a couple biology nerds I know could look at it. I thought it was some sorta hook worm, hair worm, or pinworm.

the guys said it wasn't any of those they could'nt positivly identify it, but said it was unlikely a parasite because of its mouth structure.

Jason,
If you have young fish, you'll notice that they'll actually eat some of the bigger "worms." They are actually very nutritious from what I am told.

Brad

[daninthesand]

Brad.

I tried salt as high as 3 tbsp per gallon (DON"T TRY THIS AT HOME) but the worms became immobile, snapped out of it when the salt content went down. The little buggers were very prolific despit huge water changes 100% per day times two and minimal feeding.

I think they were harmless (so probably not capilaria) but its all water under the bridge right now. All the fish died in that quarantine tank. Not due to the worms though. Nor the salt.

why did they die? Also, 3 tbs/10 gallons isn't really that much. u can go up to 1 tbs/gallon for a sshort while. Al showed me a really good article about salt.

[daninthesand]

Brad you missread my dosage. That was 3 tblspoons per GALLON (not per 10)

They died eventually because of this:


http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5403;sta rt=0

[brewmaster15]

Hi Dan! belated condolences there. I missed that post! :o :o :o :o :o

Sorry to hear about it! :'( :'( :'( :'(
-al

[daninthesand]

Thanks Al.

I'm still reeling from the event. It has really put a question in my mind as to continuing with discus. But I'm gonna continue with it with what fish I have left and go on from there.

Daniel

Dan,
I'd forgotten about that thread. Yeah, i definately misread that dosage in a big way, eh? haha, well next time i'm going with 30 tbs/gallon and see how that works. ;)

[daninthesand]

No problem Brad. And just in case any newbies come across this post, brad was joking. 30 tbsp per gallon would likely kill all your fish. Yep, kill them real fast. So don't do it! ;) ;D

that would probably kill me too...lol

[Fish_Fin-atic]

Hey Dan, without seeing them, I can't say for sure what they are, but while I was reading your description, it sounded like you were describing a vinegar eel. I have a culture going of these things, and believe me, they multiply from a few dozen to a few gazillion within a couple of weeks. They are very thin, and barely visable to the naked eye. They swim like a squirming snake or an eel through the water in undulating movements. And you can leave the culture for months at a time without taking care of it - pretty hardy lil buggers. All you need to keep these guys is water mixed with vinegar. Now I'm thinking that if your water is very acidic, this may be what you have, or they may be in the same family. Probably nothing to worry about, but if you every get any Discus fry, I'd bet they'd make short work of them whatever they may be ;) Just don't throw any fry into a q tank with 30 tbs/gal of salt!!!! ;D

[daninthesand]

Hi Fish.

yeah, i thought about that possibility but from what I understand vinegar eels are smaller than what I was seeing. And my pH is only around 7.5 or so.

Are you using these vinegar eels as food for fry? I've heard people use them. what is your opinion on them?

And I wont be putting any fry in 30 tbsp of salt for sure!
er.unless those are french fries.... ;)