where did the Pigeon strain come from

[DREW]

I tried to do a little research about "pigeon's" and where they came from but couldn't find much. I suppose I should order a current discus book. Who created this strain and how does it cross with other strains. It seems to be the dominant the gene. Is speckling very common. What do know about it. Is the marlboro strain pigeon based and does it ever produce speckling. I'm just trying to get a handle on some of these.

Thanks
Drew

From Kitti. there is an article on DPH site about it. It very hard to breed the black dust out completely. Some Asian Breeder has some secret formula to get rid of all black dust before selling them. Only show up after a few months in your tank and you end up getting blame of your poor water parameters may also resulted ill health and death of your fish. I will not expand any further from this point on. hth
jimmy.

[Cormorant]

http://www.kittidiscus.com/html/pigeonblood.htm

Albert

FYI...the name is a translation from some other asian language, and a poor one at that. The guy that developed the strain said in an interview that he meant for it to be Red Yellow but the translation made it Pigeon Blood. I found that interesting

[Francisco_Borrero]

see the article in FAMA (last issue) mentioned by Don Lee in another thread. It has a brief description of when, how and by whom it was developed, as well as the origen for the name.
Cheers, Francisco.

[jeep]

I was under the impression that a Pigeon Blood was a genetic mutation. So Gabe told me anyway...

[JeffreyRichard]

Jeep ... You are correct; it is a genetic mutation. However, you need to understand genetics and the principles of Natural Selection to understand the implecations of genetic mutations (I hope I'm not being too presumptive here ...).

Mutations occur all the time in all living organisms. All the fancy colors and fin shapes in angelfish, guppies, bettas and discus occur in nature. It is mutations that allow Evolution to occur. The principles of Natural Selection in essence state that mutations that allow the organism to adaptate and survive tend to be the traits that are passed on to their offspring. The stripes in angelfish are a good example ... this allows the fish to blend in with the weeds and reeds in there natural environment, and better survive. So the survivors with this trait breed and pass on this trait to their offspring. I believe that what you'll find if you were able to examine a BIG quantity of wild fry are examples of black, marble, gold, stripeless, etc varieties that have been raised in the domestic environment with great success. Basically, man has taken away the "Natural Selection" by providing a safe environment for all the offspring, allowing the "naturally undesirable mutations", such Pigeon Blood, to thrive. Then we can selectively breed for these traits. So, by removing the natural from the selection process, we have been able to allow the genetic mutations in fish (and other organisms) to be expressed fully.

[jeep]

Jeff,

Good description! It's been a few years since bio classes, but am I incorrect in thinking that this particular mutation was an overnight one? Or, was it a combination of genetic recessivness turned dominant?

I know that natural selection (or enhancement) occurs over many generations due to a certain environment. For example, the squirrels from each side of the Grand Canyon have developed independantly so they are actually two different species. This development occured over many thousands of years because the river separated the two from mixed breeding and because of the difference in elevations of the two sides of the Grand Canyon.

Sorry for the rambling, but what I'm asking is did the Pigeon Blood mutation happen without environmental influence?

[JeffreyRichard]

I believe all mutations are what you've termed as "overnight" ... traits that appear in one generation or even one offspring as a result of a combination of the parents genes (I hope I'm using the correct terms ...). Most of the time mutations are very slight and are not expressed in any noticible manner. Sometimes, though, the mutation is very obvious, such as the Pigeon Blood trait. I'd be willing to bet that this mutation had been expressed in offspring before they were harvest by Kitti ... they could have easily been ignored or eaten or whatever ...

The natural selection comes into play when the mutation provides an advantage for the specific individuals, and the mutations survive to produce more offspring with these traits. This is what takes the generations to establish ...

Jeff