You asked for my water conditions...

[Fishdude]

I posted a few days ago about wanting to get into keeping Discus. You asked me to post my water conditions, and here they are. The tank has been filtering for only 24 hours. It is a 50 gallon with about 40 gallons tap water, and ten gallons from my established community 20.

Straight from the tap:

Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 4 ppm
pH - 6.8
GH - 2.2 dH (40 ppm)
KH - 20 ppm

From the 50g:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 8 ppm
pH - 7.4
GH - 2.2 dH
KH - 25

Now, the only thing that concerns me is the higher pH in the tank, although the water is still very soft. My 20 also has a higher (than the tap) pH of about 7.3. What causes this? The gravel, the plants?

The tap water itself seems like it would be perfect to house the Discus... but the rising pH concerns me.

Thanks a lot.

is that water conditions out of the tap ater you aged and aerated the water, because it takes a while for the ph to stabalize. Also, ph will go down over time in tanks. This does go against what your conditions are, but it is true. What exactly are you trying to figure out about your water?

Brad

Dude ;D

Your water looks fine to me....The pH is fine at 7.4 dont mess with it!!

Most peoples tap water has a lower pH reading straight out of the tap....after the co2 off gasses(carbonic acid) the pH rises. Thats why most of us store water(age) In a barrel, where it's heated and airated or aggitated to off gas co2.
It usually stabilizes within 24 hrs.

Tony

[Fishdude]

Makes sense, thanks guys.

Maybe I'll try and find a breeder who keeps his fish in the same pH range... shouldn't be too hard.

You don't need to find a breeder that has similar ph...just get the fish you want from whereever and just follow the acclimation procedure and your fish will do just fine. Discus are THAT fragile now...c'mon....lol

[Ryan Smith]

Sometimes I think people make too big of a deal out of the pH thing. Healthy discus are tough fish. Forget what you read about them being delicate--this is not true. They just require a different set of things than other standard 'tropicals.' However, I think this goes for a lot of South American cichlids.

I recently got some fish from an importer who kept his fish at 6.5. I cut the bags open and dumped them into my tank, which has a pH of 7.6. Sure, it may not be the best way, but the fish not only lived, but were up and eating before I went to bed that night.

Ryan

[Steve_Warner]

Hi all,
Hey Fishdude, you have some great water right outta the tap for discus, IMO. As others have stated in this thread, the reason for the rising pH is probably due to the off-gassing and equalibrium to atmospheric pressure of the Co2(Carbon Dioxide) contained within the water. Water suppliers will sometimes use this(Co2) to pre-treat the water before sending it through the pipes(lower pH) to prevent scale-forming tendancies within the pipes upon delivery. This is calculated using the Langelier Saturation Index, which is also used in pool applications. I would only be concerned about your pH if you are NOT, and I do stress NOT, going to change water EVERY DAY in your tanks. If I had your water out of tap, I think I would rig up some sort of constant drip/overflow system to keep a constant flow going. You could run it through some whole-house filters in series with carbon blocks/ sediment micron filters in them. Do you have any gravel, rocks, decorations, etc.? Maybe put some crushed coral in a bag or the filter and let it slowly dissolve minerals to up your GH and Alkalinity(KH). Just some thoughts


Steve

[Fishdude]

Hi all,
Hey Fishdude, you have some great water right outta the tap for discus, IMO. As others have stated in this thread, the reason for the rising pH is probably due to the off-gassing and equalibrium to atmospheric pressure of the Co2(Carbon Dioxide) contained within the water. Water suppliers will sometimes use this(Co2) to pre-treat the water before sending it through the pipes(lower pH) to prevent scale-forming tendancies within the pipes upon delivery. This is calculated using the Langelier Saturation Index, which is also used in pool applications. I would only be concerned about your pH if you are NOT, and I do stress NOT, going to change water EVERY DAY in your tanks. If I had your water out of tap, I think I would rig up some sort of constant drip/overflow system to keep a constant flow going. You could run it through some whole-house filters in series with carbon blocks/ sediment micron filters in them. Do you have any gravel, rocks, decorations, etc.? Maybe put some crushed coral in a bag or the filter and let it slowly dissolve minerals to up your GH and Alkalinity(KH). Just some thoughts


Steve




There is about 1/2 - 1" of gravel, a bunch of rocks and slate, a piece of wood that is pretty much petrified, and about six decent sized plants.

The filter did have carbon, foam, and ammonia remover, but I just removed the ammonia remover which I will replace after the tank has fully cycled. I'll probably remove the carbon then, too.

Is the coral the best and easiest way to get the water slightly harder? Is there a way to do it without raising the pH too much? I'd like it just a shade harder for the plants.

Adding epsom salt will do the trick....a half teaspoon will raise 13 gallons or something like that 1 degree GH and not affect alkilinity. Steve should answer this, he's the water expert

Dude....I would forget about the ammonia remover. Its a waste of money IMO. Thats what the cycled filter is for, to convert ammonia to nitrites...nitrites to nitrates.

the ammonia remover competes with the filter for ammonia....the result of this IMO is a biological filter that isnt ever FULLY cycled for the stock load its intended to carry. If you happen to remove it....or it exhausts itself and you forget about it.....your ammonia level goes up because the filter itself isnt capable of consuming the excess ammonia.

Tony

[Fishdude]

Dude....I would forget about the ammonia remover. Its a waste of money IMO. Thats what the cycled filter is for, to convert ammonia to nitrites...nitrites to nitrates.

the ammonia remover competes with the filter for ammonia....the result of this IMO is a biological filter that isnt ever FULLY cycled for the stock load its intended to carry. If you happen to remove it....or it exhausts itself and you forget about it.....your ammonia level goes up because the filter itself isnt capable of consuming the excess ammonia.

Tony


That is an extremely good point.

Maybe I'll remove it from my 20, and see what the water looks like in a couple weeks...