How long do you wait...

[jeep]

I have what I believe to be a male. He (or it) has attempted to fertilize every single time (which would be about 12 times now) but the eggs are never fertilized.

I use RO/tap mix and have a TDS of 50 (conductivity 100?) and ph is 6.0.

Could conductivity still be too high or do I have a steril male?

[fcdiscus]

Probably just still too young, Brian!

[joanr]

Hiya Jeep,

The water params are OK but there are a few other things to consider. During the spawning process still water is recommended. So if they are on a schedule and you are at home, turn off the filters during the egg laying.

The age of the male is a consideration. 12 times is not a lot. My BD male didn't get it right the first 22 times. He was actually a year and a half when he finally got his act together.
Feed a lot of good food like CBW.

Have patience. I measure conductivity with a pinpoint meter which reads microsiemens. For the breeders I kept it pretty soft, about 80 MS, but have had wrigglers with it at higher and lower levels also. PH between 6 and 6.5, better hatch rate according to the experienced. You may want to try RO only with some electrolytes added back in, or even do the opposite if your tap water is soft to begin with, try aged tap. You'll have to experiment but usually it's just a matter of maturity on the male's part. You didn't mention his age?

HTH
Joan

[jeep]

Sorry about the age.

Assuming he was 3 months old when I got him, that would make him about 15 months old now. He tries really hard, but no success yet.

However, it's been about 30 hours since the last spawn and only 7 eggs have turned so far...

[fcdiscus]

I think he will be just fine! Frank

[jeep]

Thanks Joan and Frank,

Sorry, but patience is kind of hard when these guys are in my home office and I see them for about 12 hours a day. I'm working on it.

I do have a sponge filter in there and I keep forgetting to turn it off. Will do next time. I'm also going to try to lower conductivity more. It's been kind of hard to do that because my RO unit seem to be less efficient with the colder weather and water. It's producing about 34 TDS. Maybe I should invest in a new DI unit.

Can you flush a membrane without a flush kit?

Thanks,

Brian

[fcdiscus]

The flush is useful for maintanrnce, but those membranes only last 2 to 3 years tops. Why don't you check with Randall B for just a membrane replacement. But IMO your Conductivity is probably not the problem. Frank

I think your hatch rate should be fine at 100uS. Sorry I dont know the math to check TDS to uS so I dont know if that is the proper reading or not. I would try and drop it a little just to see if it makes a difference. I keep mine at 60uS. If you are using a test kit check it with several different water samples to make sure it is reading right....34TDS is very very high straight out of your RO.

As far as the male dont give up on him yet. I had one Male that was 22 months old before he started giving me good hatch rates.
What do you feed him? There are things you can feed him to assist him some in doing his job.
If it is not a water problem, at his age he should be at least be able to give you a few fertile eggs.
HTH Randy

[hunterbeav]

Jeep whats the water temp in your breeder tank???? If it's higher then 85 that could be your problem. I would suggest 82 tops.

Good one Jim, the temp can play a big part also
Randy

[jeep]

I feed primarily a beefheart mixture very high in protein, vitamins and minerals. Supplemental food is Colorbits. Water temp is at 82.

The RO has only done this after the ground water temp went low for the winter. During the summer the TDS was at 24. I just bought some distilled water and checked it. TDS is zero so I should be able to bring down TDS a little quicker by mixing with RO. I've read where TDS = 1/2 of conductivity (ms). I've been keeping the tank at about 60 TDS until a recent salt treatment, so bringing it down (from 1500) has been time consuming.

Note: up until very recently all the eggs had been eaten after the spawn. This will be the 3rd time I have screened the eggs, so there very well could have been good eggs in the past but I just didn't know it.

48 hours after the recent spawn about 50% of 150 eggs are white.

He's a great parent, although not a great specimin. A few weeks ago he tended the eggs for 6 days without a screen. I found out recently it was the female eating the eggs and he won't let her near them...

If you are going to screen the eggs I would place an airstone under the eggs so that the eggs get a light water flow to them. Randy

Cary has told me that it takes up to 2 full years for Blue Diamond males to mature because of all the inbreeding involved to get that color. Just be patient and it'll work.

Brad

[jeep]

This is a blue panda and I've heard the lighter colored males do take longer.... I just wish I could get my other excellent quality male this far!

Yes I have had a few problems with pigeon males myself.
If you make your own beefheart add a good amount of wheat germ to the next mix, that may help out
Randy
PS, Brad yes it takes 2 years for some BD's and some times even longer

[Tin Pusher]

I am in the same boat, 7 spawnings without fertilization. How long can a sponge filter be turned off without affecting its bacteria too much?

[Carol_Roberts]

Is the male actually making passes over the eggs or just standing around watching? You can easily turn the sponge filter off for an hour or two.
Carol :heart1:

[jeep]

He has made passes on the eggs every single time including the very first time. He started about 6 months ago. As a matter of fact, he is so eager to make passes that he keeps driving the female out of the way.

They have laid eggs 3 times since this was origionally posted. I have screened the eggs every time and they have all turned white within 2 days. Last night I got cond. down to about 80 and they laid eggs. So far none have turned...

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Jeep:
You should see black eyes in eggs after about 24 hours. You turned off filter this time and softened your water too?Carol :heart1:

[jeep]

Yes. I turned the filter off last time too. I've been having a hard time lowering conductivity due to a salt treatment a few weeks back and also because with the colder ground water, my RO unit had had a much higher TDS because my DI is exhausted. I did a 50% w/c with distilled water yesterday which brought TDS down to 40. For some reason it kept rising even with straight RO water.

As of now, there are 3 white eggs out of about 150 total. If nothing happens this time, I'll give it one more time and then wait a month or two. I'm preparing for some new arrivals in a few weeks so I'll concentrate on making them happy...

It's so frustrating because with all the egg-eating problems I've had and that I've seen others have, I end up with a male that is so eager to be successful but everything leads back to probable infertility, at least at this time...

[Carol_Roberts]

I didn't think my big yellow male would ever get it right. It must have taken 20 + tries over a 6 month period and he is at least 3 years old. Suddenly I have 60+ pigeon blood fry . . . .
Carol :heart1:

[RandalB]

In response to the question about flushing the membrane from earlier in the month, Yes you can flush without a kit. Just remove the tube from the waste fitting with the flow restrictor and let the unit run for a minute. Membrane is flushed.


RandalB

(I need to read more sections than water works!)

[jeep]

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I got a wiggler

:santa: :santa: :santa: :santa: :santa: :santa: :santa: :santa:

:bounce: :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2:

[Carol_Roberts]

Congratulations!!!!! Now you know your male is fertile!
Carol :heart1:

[jeep]

It was gone within an hour. I didn't really expect it to make it anyway. Hopefully we'll have better luck in the near future...