New to Discus and I have eggs!! Help

[Kregg]

I have recently converted from a marine system (after 10+ years) to a tropical discus system. After cycling my system for about 8 weeks with Tetra's, I bought 3 Royal Green Discus. They are all three very nice specimens with vibrant color and perfect shape and measure about 4 to 4.5 inches. They entered my tank about 6 days ago and have been eating better everyday. My PH and temp were very close to the purchase source. My GH was higher by about 3.

Background: 75 gal Oceanic tank with a full wet dry system underneath. Includes UV. KH=4, PH=7.2, GH=9, Ammonia & Nitrite=0, Temp=84. I have a full gravel bottom with drift wood and 6 live plants.

I guess I got very lucky and purchased a breeding pair without anyone even knowing it. They lived very happily at the fish shop for many months with no spawning. Last evening one laid about 60 eggs on the back black glass wall. Two have paired off and they are now guarding the eggs vigourusly. None have been eaten yet. I did notice the twitching signs a couple of days ago, but did not know any better. The pair has turn quite dark now and they hover against the eggs all the time. The third royal green has been shuned to the opposite side of the tank and gets chased away the moment he even comes half way accross (eggs on far end). Eating is becoming more aggressive.

What do I do? I think my GH is probably so hard that the eggs will not hatch and if they do, I'm worried about them being sucked down the sump in the upper back corner. I like the idea of growing some fry, but I'm in over my head. Must I seperate the third discus to prevent damage to him/her? I do not have a second tank or system ready to go, if they must be seperated. Perhaps I need to do that. If so, I'm thinking of moving the breeders to a new smaller tank with a different filter system and no gravel per what I have read. I have so many questions! Here are a few to start.

1. Should I set up a new tank for them?
2. I purchased them fo $75 each, does this make them more valuable now?
3. How long will a pair like this breed (in months or years)?
4. Is the thrid discus in danger?

Wow! You're a very lucky fellow. I seriously think it's no coincidence that they wouldn't breed at the store but did immediately for you. You definately have a superior system going. So here's my opinion...

1. Leave them in that tank for 5 or 6 spawns so they get practice warding off other fish - helps the parenting instincts. Then, if you really want fry you'll need to separate them into their own tank, preferably a barebottom tank with a sponge filter along with HOB, about a 29 or 30 is the best size.

2. As of now, your fish are not more valuable (well, maybe to an LFS, but not to a knowledgable discus keeper). Once you get the pair separated and they raise fry successfully, their value will skyrocket to many people in your area. People on here probably wouldn't pay much though, because we like to raise our own youngsters to breeding age. ;D ;D ;D

3. I'm not positive on this. I know a good male can breed for you for over 5 years. I think females, like humans, only have a certain time (they are not born with eggs, like humans, however). I want to say I've heard 4 years for females??? Not sure about that one...maybe a resident breeder will answer.

4. The third discus is not in danger. He will get chased away. If visible damage begins to occur, then you should separate, and you could do so via an egg crate from Home Depot or somewhere of the like. Discus do better in groups of 6 or more, so I recommend the purchase of 3-6 more fish ;) from a respected breeder on this site.

Hope that answers your questions. Keep asking away and keep us posted. I also recommend you turn down or turn off your filter when the eggs hatch.

[Kregg]

Brad, Thanks for your coments. I was interested in their value just so I could feel better about spending close to $300 for a few fish. I told my wife, one of the reasons I was switching from salt to fresh was for cheaper fish!!! Oh well maybe not. I have no intention of selling them. Since you offered, I will continue to fire a few questions. Additional support would be most welcome.

1. Wet/dry biological filter systems and water changes. OK. I've read all of the daily water change comments. It seams like a wet/dry system is unusual in fresh water. In my marine life, the wet dry set up tank did not require constant water changes. Really only when there was a problem or additional water was needed for evaporation. The bio agents living in the w/d media clense the water and the UV even goes another step. What should I be doing now with my set up? Most people that recomend daily water changes apear to have the simple box filter system and that might require this. I have excellent airation with the dripping, the water is crystal clear, and all nitrates and ammonias are non existent. Currently I do a once a week 25% change with a gravel vacuum.

2. Adding water. The chemistry is so tight.... I have always just filled up a bucket at the sink close to the correct temp, placed several drops of Stress Coat in and add it to the tank. This is why my hardness is around 9. Should I be making a bigger production of this and age the water several days and get a deionizing filter to lower the GH. Water straight from my tap reads: PH 6.9, KH 71, GH 8 or 143

3. What about Reverse Osmosis filters?? is this needed?

4. My PH has always been tough to keep down. It comes from the tap as a 7.0 but in the tank it seams to rise. Perhaps it is in the natural rock type media in my wet dry. It is the same stuff I used on my marine system, though it has been used in fresh water for almost a year. Then there is the CO2 options

5. How active should my fish be? The are currently just sitting in one spot for long periods of time. The pair is always just hovering/hiding by the eggs and the third is hidding against another piece of wood on the opposite side.

6. Today the eggs have changed from white to an amber color. Is this typical? Only 2 or three eggs are still white.

Sorry for so many questions, but I sure appreciate the advise.

Thx,
Kregg

[larry lob]

hello and congrates.

I am no expert and have my first eggs today but i was under the impression that white eggs indicate non fertalised eggs.
the eggs should remain pink/brown then go brown/black as the become wrigglers.

if the eggs are white that is normally fungus setting in on eggs that are not fertalised.

as to your filtartion, i am of the oppinion that if the water is kept free of nitrites and nitrates then the water changes can be spead out but for growth and breeding you do need frequent fresh water.

if the kh is too high then that makes the eggs hard shelled and it is dificult to get the eggs fertalised however for growth of babies it is concidered that higher kh help develop the bone structure of the fish.

the parents hould stay almost motionless around the eggs fanning them.

hth larry

[Carol_Roberts]

You may be able to breed in your tap water, but may get smaller hatches. An RO unit may be needed in the future.

A storage barrel and pump for your water is more important now. I bet your pH raises from 6.8 to about 7.8 (mine does). Discus don't like bigs swings in the pH. Even a 25% water change may bother them.

Agitating or circulating the water releases CO2. This natural process raises the pH to the same level as is in your tank. You can then do 90% water changes with no ill effects to your discus. Discus love clean, fresh water and will grow biggest with best colors if you do 30%+ daily water changes.

Carol :heart1:

[Kregg]

Thank you for the several responces to date.

Update: The eggs have hatched. This morning I noticed that many off the eggs were just flapping in the current and then by linch the eggs were all gone. I though the went down the sump or were eaten.

Mom & Dad remained in the same general area. Around lunch time I found them on a large leaf of one of the live plants. I would guess there are about 60 fry. Mom and Dad both suck them into their mouths if they wonder (drift) off and blow them back on the leaf.

Those darn little neon tetras are eating them and Mom & Dad must keep on their toes. they are doing a fine job. I wish the parents would eat a little more though. I did not ever expect them to even hatch and the odds are against them but I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Does this successfull hatching prove enough to move them out to a nice clean bottom tank all alone? Our do they need more practice?