Ph level

[caspias]

Hello......

Do you guys always measure Ph level of your aquarium daily?? Is it definitely necessary??? How to maintain the Ph level of 6.2 - 6.9 stabil ??? Do you drop "Ph down" liquid everyday into your aquarium?? My aquarium will raise its Ph level automatically after couple of days.

Do discus very sensitive about Ph level?? Do we exactly must keep the Ph level at 6 all the time??

Thanks

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Caspias:
Most of us do not lower our pH. Mine is 6.8 from the tap and after agitation raises to 7.8. I have a well and co2 is trapped in the water. The agitation or circulation releases the CO2, stabilizing the pH. My discus do just fine in the 7.8 pH.

What is your pH directly from the tap and what is the pH of a glass of water after it has set on the counter overnight?
Carol :heart1:

[caspias]

Hi Carol....

My fresh tapwater has Ph of 7, and after few days becomes 7.5 - 8. (I don't use digital Ph meter). So if i want to lower my Ph to 6 i need to drop Ph down liquid.But after few days the Ph will raise again.
I plan to breed my discus, but many articles and books state that the best Ph level for breeding discus is 6.2 - 6.9. Otherwise the discus won't breed. So I think my problem is how to maintain my Ph level at 6.2 - 6.9 for as long as the breeding time.
What about you Carol? Do your discus breed well with Ph of 7.8 ??

Thanks

[Carol_Roberts]

Actually it is the hardness of the water you need to worry about (GH)

My GH is 11. I use about 50% RO (reverse osmossis) water with my tap water. This reduce the hardness to about 6 GH. My pH was about 7.6

Carol :heart1:

[caspias]

I'm a little bit confused with the words here.....what is RO ??? is it like a media( or filter ??? ) that the water will flow through this before going into the tank ???

I see here breeders use something called "Resin Filter" to control the hardness. Is it the RO you are talking about? The size of the "Resin Filter" is too big.and I think it costs much money. not efficient for home-use like me. :(

RO stands for Reverse Osmosis and it is indeed a type of water filter. It is affordable for the hobbiest. Check out www.airwaterice.com Walter, the owner there, is a member of this forum and he has the best prices on RO systems I've been able to find by far. Most people here that need to lower hardness mix RO water with tap water to get the desired hardness. HTH.
Brad

[caspias]

Hmm....I've been looking other threads and here's my conclusion :
For growout tank (Juveniles), lower/higher Ph and hardness level is fine as long as it is stable. For example i keep 10 young discus in water of Ph = 7.5 and high hardness, that would be no problem.

For breeding tank, Ph level should be around 6 - 7, and hardness of 11. This water condition must be maintained all the time, until the fry can be move to growout tanks.

Please correct me. Or maybe if I forgot any other water parameter please notify me. Thanks a lot.

[Discusgeo]

Caspias your close, for breeding you want the hardness closer to 5 or 6
General Hardness Table

0 to 4 dH---------0 to 70 ppm----------Very Soft
4 to 8 dH---------70 to 140 ppm--------Soft
8 to 12 dH-------140 to 210 ppm--------Medium Hard
12 to 18 dH------210 to 320 ppm--------Fairly Hard
18 to 30 dH------320 to 530 ppm--------Hard
Higher----------------------------------Very Hard
Most test kits measure gH or general hardness in German degrees hardness or OdH, which is equal to 17.9 mg/L. Since mg/L is equal to ppm (parts per million) simply multiply the degrees OdH times 17.9 if you prefer to work with ppm.

[caspias]

Thanks alot for your info Discusgeo !!

I also read a thread just a few minutes ago, he (i forgot his name ) keep discus in ph of 8 ,hardness of very high level, but his discus are just fine and healthy. It gives me more confidents to start keeping discus ;)

Only for breeding i'll have more challenges ;D but it seems to be for the next couple of months (or years! ) until i get expert in keeping them.

Thanks again!

[caspias]

ups! 1 thing before a forgot to ask.

how do you maintain your ph level ??what do you use ??

My tap water is about 7 here, and by tomorow I will find the Ph goes up to 7.5 - 8. That means I have to add Ph-lower to my water,but the question is how? Do i need to drop Ph-Down liquid to the tank everyday just right after the waterchange??

[Carol_Roberts]

What you want to do is put your water into a holding tank or barrel. Add a heater and something to agitate the water - like a pond pump or powerhead. this will release the trapped CO2 and your pH will naturaly rise and stabilize.

Your discus want their water to always be the same. If your water naturally raises to ph 7.8 let it raise in the holding tank and then add it to your discus tank.

No need to mess with lowerin the pH. I keep my discus in 7.8

Carol :heart1:

[arpanlib]

hi,
even i suggest that you dont play with water chemistry.
things will get better once you start keeping discus and i suggest that read the froum regularly and ask questions.

arpanlib

[caspias]

Now I understand. I must add the closest water parameter as water in the tank as possible when I do WC.

So if I age the water for a day (24 h), then the water parameter would be the same, I mean the Ph and hardness ??? If I dont test it first before adding it to the tank, can I be sure that the water parameter is the same as the water in the tank so there's no need for me to worry about ?

Thanks for all the info guys!

[Carol_Roberts]

You will have to test your pH a few times to make sure of how long the water need to circulate or agitate to raise the pH. It may take 3 hours - it may take 33 hours. Once you know how long it takes you will rarely need to test. During the rainy season (if you have one) your pH may be lower.

CArol :heart1:

[Kent]

Hi! I would like to add a little.

On the matter of PH Down, I read recently that the chemicals used will eventually bring the pH to about 7.2. Even though you can initially drop the pH however low (or high) within a day or two you may find your pH settling back to 7.2 ish. Kinda neat little tidbit.

I unfortunately have tapwater way high at the moment, close to a pH of 8. I do drop it a bit with the aid of Seachems Acid Balance. I know that pH in the tap water can fluxuate sesaonally so I do regularily test it as well. I definately hate having to adjust, but I have been very careful - testing both before and after waterchanges.

[caspias]

Do Ph and hardness have correlations?? I mean, when the hardness is high, does the Ph will go up also or down ??? Or when the Ph goes up the hardness will go up or down ??

Or Ph has nothing to do with hardness ??
When the Ph water in my holding tank (reservoir) going up, does the hardness parameter change??
At the moment I dont have hardness measure kit.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hardness and pH are sort of linked.

Generally hard water has a higher pH and soft water has a lower pH because soft water is more acidic.

Also pH is linked to the amont of CO2 and oyxgen disloved in the water.

Well water usually has a high level of disolved CO2 which lowers the pH. When you agitate the water, carbon dioxide is off gassed and the pH naturally rises. Many times well water is hard because it contains disolved minerals. For example, my moderately hard well water comes from the tap at pH 6.8 and raises to pH 7.8 after agitation (my GH is 11)

Surface water from a resevoir has naturaly undergone this process and is already at a fairly stable pH. It may also be very soft as it contains runoff water that has not percolated thru minerals first.

With soft water and a low pH you have to watch for pH crashes as the carbonates are used up by natural biological process in the aquarium.
Carol :heart1:

[caspias]

Thanks for your infos Carol....

Today i've checked my water, the Ph is 5.5 !! is it still fine for breeding discus or i have to higher the Ph ?? As for the raisement i think it is just going fine. Do discus have abnormal behaviour on very acidic (too acidic) water ??

From your explanation i think with Ph of 5.5, the hardness is soft enough for discus, isnt it ?

thanks

[Carol_Roberts]

Your water probably is soft enough. 5.5 pH is fine - just be carefull that it doesn't go below 5.

Daily water changes should keep your pH stable.
Carol :heart1:

[caspias]

What happen if the Ph goes below 5.5 ??

Do discus display some unusual behavior or unusual color when there is a problem with the water parameter ?? (in case i forgot to check my water)

[Carol_Roberts]

AS the pH Lowers the water becomes more acid. After a certain point it can burn the gills.
Carol :heart1:

[caspias]

And that minimum point would be..............????
4 ? 3? 5? ???

Thanks Carol

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't know the exact number, lol. With my well water it's nothing I've had to worry about. Maybe April or one of the folks with soft water knows.
Carol :heart1:

[jesser]

ok carol its me again different subject,
i do it the same way as you do and i get a ph of 7.8 regularly unless i drop muratic acid in it but i have found that it doesnt stay consistent because of the swings, now also i have actually spawned at 7.o but in my garden tank with co2 charges. there was a time i was doing my cold water changes to trigger spawning and it did and it even kept it at 7.0 but i decided to heat my water in my barrell again because its winter time and when i get in the garage i am cold and can just imagine the poor fish. but now i am back to 7.8 and 130 ppms. so ur saying thats okay to breed?

[jesser]

hey caspias,
i have found that usually at 4 they will start going to the surface then u know its too low. just drop some baking soda and it will raqise it again but there is no need to have the ph solow.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Jesser:
It's OK for me. 80 babies are plenty for me to grow out.
Carol :heart1:

[jesser]

so i guess i am going to stay away from the acid i dont like it. thanks

[jesser]

hey evrybody
the ro/tap ratio definitely worked got 400 eggs at a consistent 7.2 rather than a unstable 6.5 with acid i just hope it all works out halfof them are darker than the other half but not quite white or is it denial i hope not,,, i already treated it with blue but now i m not sure i should have but if its good enough for jack its good enough for me. i plan on changing to formalin right before they hatch.

[Carol_Roberts]

With my discus a few of the eggs come out of the female white and I can still have golden eggs (unfertilized) 4 days later.