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Jason
12-31-2002, 04:19 AM
Hi all

as some of you may have noticed I had deleted my old profile and stayed outta here for a few weeks.

The reason I did that is I felt two threads regarding certain importers/breeders was locked to early.

Now I understand why they were locked and all the problems those threads created, it was for the best.

My concerns are even though, Al's demographic poll doesnt show alot of young members, I'm sure there is alot that read and don't post.
When your 13,14,15 years old you don't really have alot of money and could very well be tempted to buy from a "cheaper" source.

9 years ago I got burned really bad to the tune of $500usd, granted I wasn't as smart a kid as say Tyler is, but still it was a hard lesson to learn.

What I'm asking everyone to help me with is, I'd like to put a "steps to buying discus" thread up
wich will hopefully be read by potential discus buyers young and old, and help them make informed descisions about the purchases they are going to make, and avoid certain pitfalls.

Its sad that this type of thing has to be done, but lets face it its not a perfect world, and if it saves one person from getting ripped-off it will be worth the effort.

so any suggestions you guys have for the discus buying checklist would be much appreciated.

happy holidays and thank you for your time,

Jason

ZaPPPa
12-31-2002, 06:55 AM
- Read, read, read, read.
Before you dare even think about buying Disus learn everything about them. Learn how to recognize good fish, learn about disease symptoms, proper food, water chemistry, discus care... everything. Discus are not hard to keep, but they do need more care than your average tetra.
Also, try to find out if your current tank setup will be adequate for keeping discus. And, more importantly, ask yourself if you are willing to spend the time needed to take proper care of these fish. If in doubt.. don't do it.

- Ask around!
There are probably two good ways to find a good breeder. The internet and clubmembers. Take my word for it, your LFS is not a good idea.
Do not stop at a single opinion about someone, get a second, a third and then some more. Opinions vary and some breeders are known to bad-mouth eachother.

- See the fish before you buy them (if possible)
Before you go read up on what good discus should look like. Memorize the coloration of different strains and what the correct fin shape should be. There are more than enough references about this in books and on the internet.

- See the parents (if possible)
This will give you a better idea how the little ones will turn out (if you buy juveniles). It will also give you a better idea on the quality of care of the breeder.

- Talk to the breeder and ask questions, many questions.
Not just useful to learn more about your new fish, but also ask about his filtration system, water changes schedule, special method, food... anything. There's no better way to learn than to learn from an expert.... and if you already know that stuff, you can just ask to see if he knows his stuff.

- Watch the fish feed
Should be ferocious eaters.. It will also give you an idea about the hierarchy of the fish in that tank.

- Join a club
You'd be amazed how much money you can save by knowing the right people. Since I have joined the DCH (Discus Club Holland) I have not visited the LFS. I order everything on the internet and get my food and other stuff from members of that club.

Before I bought my first discus I got some tips from people i trusted and I watched my fish for over an hour. The breeder also showed me the parents and fed the little ones. Then we just sat and talked for at least two hours about his installation and discus in general. He also gave me some phone numbers of people to call if my fish would get sick and where to buy high quality food.

Since then I have made every mistake in the book, but that's a different story altogether.... The fish are still alive and kicking though!

Kagan
12-31-2002, 07:21 AM
Well here is mine:

Go and observe the fish for at least couple of days if you are not sure about the seller. Do not loose your patience. If there is so few fish that they could be sold; then observe the fish for at least half an hour. So that you will see its reactions to feeding, people coming-leaving, other fish etc..

See the parents if the if the fish are very young, lets say at most 2.5-3 inch.

The most important is to see as many fish as you can in the web sites and in the shops, TO MEMORIZE THE MUST BE SHAPE AND COLORING AT DIFFERENT AGES..

Do not buy before comparing the price of similar fish. There are lots of web based breeders around here.

On the other hand; if you live in a country where you will not be able to find variety of discus; then wait till you find the best fish for you eyes. This is my situation and I have waited 1.5 year to get a total of 9 fish!!

Kagan

Ardan
12-31-2002, 09:36 AM
Just some more suggestions. My opinions ;D

1 Maybe read through all the posts in the "breeders section" and get some ideas.

2 When you have an idea then look at that persons "profile" and read all their posts. You can get a good feel for the person.

3 See who is "actually helping others". It means a lot!

4 If in doubt, then "IM" some people who have been around the forums a while. Ask.

5 Read the posts, look at the pics, see who is happy with their fish and has healthy fish. Ask them where they got them.

Everyone has different experiences,even with the same breeder. Everyone makes mistakes.

Everyone has different likes and dislikes. What is pleasing to you may not be to someone else. SO YOU ARE THE FINAL JUDGE for yourself. If you like the fish, who cares if someone else doesn't.As long as its healthy and grows.


The other mentioned items are good, (see the fish, ask the breeder questions, see the fish feed if you can, etc)

hth
Ardan

mench
12-31-2002, 10:42 AM
Glad to see ya back Jason.Like most of the others have said...ask a lot of questions,try to get your fish yourself,not mail order,if possible..Check out the breeders hatchery,check out the parents...watch the fish you want for a while.
I try not to buy small fish,say quarter to 50 cent size,cuz at least with the little guys that I have bought I have gotten more than my share of "runts",just my luck I guess...I would suggest that you buy the largest fish that you can afford,that way you are pretty sure that you will get a healthy and good shaped fish.
If you can't see the fish for yourself,or can't find what you want and have to buy mail order,then check the boards and ask every one you can about the breeder you want to buy fish from.
After you get your fish and they start doing what you want..check out your area for other discus nuts and try to get together...Around my area there are a few of us that swap fish around,to see what we can get to breed...it is a good way to get other fish and also to get fry...if you are lucky enough to get some spawns going then you will have a constant source of fish.
Hope this helps.

Mench

jeep
12-31-2002, 11:00 AM
I might add that one should understand that if you see a picture of a fish on a website, all fry may not look exactly like it. In other words, don't order based on a picture, order based on the breeders reputation and honesty.

Once you determine who you are ordering from, ask every question you can think of about the fish. What to expect fron juvie to adult.

Honest mistakes do happen even from honest people. If the breeder is honest, he will usually correct mistakes.

daninthesand
12-31-2002, 02:35 PM
All the above information is great. But one thing that is being left out I think unless I missed it. ???

I don't care who the breeder is. Hobbiest, fulltime breeder whatever.

Is is my opinion that THEY ALL HAVE SOME LESS THAN SATISFACTORY FISH IN THEIR TANKS at any given time and each has different ways of geting rid of them. LFS, culling whatever.

So if you cannot see the fish you are buying, make sure you tell the breeder you want his best fish. Phone him and tell him you will not be happy with anything less. Make it clear to him/her what your opinion of BEST FISH means.

Hopefully he will see that you know what you want and send you what you are looking for. Pictures are always great if the breeder is willing to do that for you. But as we have all seen pictures can bemisleading as well.

HTH.

Daniel

Don_Lee
12-31-2002, 04:45 PM
Jason,

I am very glad that you are back, we were wondering what happened to you...
In short, the best thing I have found is research all you can. This board is a great resource, as are many of the books that are available. Some of the books are simplistic, while some are quite advanced. Talking in person to experts like Cary, Daryl, Jeff, and others has probably done more for me than anything in terms of really learning. Actually standing and looking at fish with people who really know about discus is invaluable, that person to person immediacy is wonderful.

HTH,

Don ;D

12-31-2002, 07:42 PM
Steps to Choosing Discus

1. call Cary at Great Lakes Discus

You not have very nice fish at great prices and the customer service cannont be beat, hands down

If you want to choose discus from a store or local breeder:
1) Ask to see the fish being fed. Only consider those that attack the food right of the bat. Don't listen to them tell you they've already been fed, they're always hungry.

2) Look at the body dimensions of the fish. The fish should be as tall as it is long. This DOES NOT include any fins, only the actual body.

3) Fins on the fish should be erect, and the fish should not look black or dark, nor should it cower in a corner. If they dash when you come near the tank and turn dark, move on.

4) Look at the eye of the fish. If it looks big in proportion to the body then the fish may be stunted

5) Don't take fish that are the brunt of all the picking going on in the tank. The bigger, more aggressive fish in the tank are probably healthier and can defend themselves much better.

6) Choose fish that YOU would be thoroughly pleased with. That's what really matters. Make sure you are POSITIVE you want that fish. There should be no doubt in your mind

I hope that gives an idea to anyone interested. I really think you can't go wrong with Cary though. He doesn't rip people off.

Brad

Pick
12-31-2002, 08:18 PM
Super stuff guys, but, how about a place like the library to put it so a newbie can easily locate it, and someone to compile all these replies and remarks into a concise document instead of the newbie having to roam through the replies?

TC

01-01-2003, 01:08 AM
Jason,
Welcome back.
My advice is this: If it seems to good to be true, it is!

Miles ;D

Ryan
01-01-2003, 03:22 AM
I moved this thread back to the General board at Jason's request. He wants some more replies and thoughts.

Ryan

yogi
01-01-2003, 11:23 AM
It's a matter of doing your homework, and this thread is a great start. First you have to do your homework on how to set up your tank. Also gather information on what is required to keep discus healthy such as food, water changes, quarantine, etc. This thread already contains a lot of good information on how to find a reputable breeder and what to look for in discus.

With the internet and everyone helping everyone there is almost no excuse for people to get ripped off. There will always be people who do not do there homework and just rush out and buy tanks and fish. There will also be people who just look for the cheapest discus available, without a concern for quality. You can't feel sorry for these people because they brought in on themselfs.

No matter who you are fish can get sick, just like people can. You need to observe them especially at feeding time. Very few things will kill a discus overnite. So if you suspect a fish is sick observe and post in the disease section of this board for help.

They say a discus can live for ten years. I don't know if this is true or not. I do know that with good care you should get atleast five to seven years out of most of your discus.

Lynn
01-01-2003, 12:37 PM
1. You need to do your homework about discus before you buy any.
2. Go to the breeders and pick out your own fish. This will give you an excellent idea about the person and how well he or she takes care of the fish. Well cared for fish are usually healthy.
3. If you cannot get to a breeder in person, then make many inquiries before buying sight unseen. Ask around!!!
4. If you a just starting with discus, its okay to not have grand champions!! You can get those later after you learn!!
5. If you have experience with discus then you must realize that GOOD DISCUS ARE NOT CHEAP, CHEAP DISCUS ARE NOT GOOD!!!

Thanks Jason!! Glad to see ya back! I hope this helps your list!
Lynn

brewmaster15
01-01-2003, 02:50 PM
Jason,
Thank You. :)



DiscusRus... I sent you an IM a few days ago. (upper corner of the screen... Please contact me about it either by IM or email.

-al

Simon2000
02-17-2003, 02:50 PM
1. Check the person/supplier your're buying from, as from past experience some people try to sell you poor quality discus at high prices.

2. Steer clear from places where people don't know what they are talking about,

johninfrance
03-30-2003, 07:02 AM
Would anybody have suggestions of what are some good books concerning raising & breeding Discus ?

Thanks,

John

Carol_Roberts
03-30-2003, 03:03 PM
Penang Discus by Shaifullah Yeng. I believe Oliver carries it at www.belowwater.com

Fisheyes
03-30-2003, 10:37 PM
Hi
Could you tell me about the the Penang Discus book .
Does it cover diseases of disc as well as genetics.
Thanks
Fisheyes( ::))

Harriett
04-01-2003, 02:37 PM
Fisheyes:
A whole lot of folks consider Untergasser's "Discus HEalth" to be a bible for discus disease/treatment. It's expensive (around $75) but I got one on Aquabid--new--for $44. Look around! It IS an amazing book.
Best regards,
Harriett

Carol_Roberts
04-02-2003, 12:36 AM
Penang Discus does not have a specific chapter devoted to diseases, but touches on medication in different chapters. It is the best overall discus book availabale. IF you want a book on fish diseases, Dieter Untergasser's"Handbook of Fish Diseases" has lots of pictures and flowchartrs.

lesley
05-12-2003, 05:28 AM
I think it would be a great idea to have a "before you buy Discus" area - but don't forget that a large number of people (just like me) are going to be in a position whereby they have had other fish but have always admired Discus, or maybe just decided to have tropical fish and were sold Discus cause they looked nice and went home not knowing what was involved.

My experience with breeding dogs (German Shepherds), cattle (hobby farm - not truly commercial) and growing flowers for the cut flower market, have always shown that if you are prepared to provide what is needed then you can do it. Discus are no different in that regard, however, many newcomers might not be aware of the w/c requirements, etc. and it seems to me that if you ignore this requirement then you have lots and lots of problems.

I think that there is always going to be a need for the newcomer like me, who hasn't looked first at your site, needing lots of help. I think too that someone who has bought them and is suddenly having major problems will not always have time to do the research through previous posts, so maybe your proposed area could take account of this as well.

I have been very impressed by the help provided in this forum and think that you guys are all great.

pvmuth
05-14-2003, 08:25 AM
Look for a local club and see if any members are breeding Discus. Pick there brains and learn as much as you can.