Water Change help needed!

[BlueTurquoise]

Hi all,

Ok so I have a new 50gal tank which needs water change everyday. It is at least 4ft high off the ground so lifting buckets above it to siphon in is hard on my back to say the least.

Let me start by describing what my appartment layout is like and what options I have and ideas etc then maybe someone can give me advice on what they do etc. Perhaps there is a solution that I have not thought of. Basically I need to remove water from the tank and get rid of it, store water and airate/heat it, then get it back into the tank (standard wc)

Ok my tank is in a quiet spot in the middle of the lounge. I need to change 30% (that's roughly 16 gal wc) per day. There is not enough room under the tank inside the cabinet, so that is out of the equasion.

Bathroom:
The bathroom is a good 12metres of hose away but that offers no solution as the taps do not have screw threads on them in the bathroom. Add to that the fact that my wife is telling me that the bathroom is out of bounds for fish stuff. Even so the hose will have to run straight across my nice carpet to the bathroom...

Balcony:
I also have a balcony (we live on ground floor) about 8 metres of hose away from the tank. The problem is that there is no electrical outlets there nor is there any taps. I can however pump old water straight onto the garden/lawn from the balcony. The hose will run past my lounge chairs... The big drawcard there is that there is heaps of space for storage.

Laundry:
Directly behind the tank is (what I reckon is my solution) my laundry. There are screw treads on the washing machine taps, there is a drain, and there is another unthreaded tap (laundry sink). Now I can store water there (just! it is very crowded in there) but I will need to pump it from the laundry using about 8 metres of hose, past my kitchen, past my fridge into the tank. I can't use gravity in this case as there really is only one place to put water in the laundry and that is a tight spot on the floor next to my washer. Drilling holes in the wall to mount a storage unit above the tank is out of the question as it will look ugly and it's not my place!

Q1) What capacity pump is strong enough for this amount of distance?

To remove water from the tank I was thinking that I will have to siphon out the solid waste the old fashioned way into a bucket. But to remove the majority I would have to siphon/pump it out somehow. The problem is that gravity may not be on my side as the water would indeed fall from my tank but it would have to go uphill again to go over my balcony railing out onto the garden. Siphon into a buckets is not a long term solution for me...

Q2) is it a good idea to use a submersible pump to pump out dirty water?
Q3) is there pumping solution that I don't know about where i can attatche the pump on the exiting end of the hose (ie where the water comes out from as apposed to sucking water into the pump ans spitting it out through the hose, it works in the opposite way, sucking it from the hose)
Q4) If i could find away to get the siphon going, it probably would work over the balcony as I would need an extra 2-3 metres to reach the ground from the balcony (ground floor is high off the ground)... just a thought...
Q5) can you think of any other way to remove water from the tank considering my situation???

please feel free to ask me questions here as I will be glad to answer them. Any suggestions will be gratefull recieved!

Thanks in advanced,
Chong

[RandalB]

Sounds like you need a Python waterchanger to me. The only problem would be water storage

Are you capable of using tap water directly (No chloramines?)?

The hose off the balcony also sounds good. I go out a 2nd floor window into the flower beds in the summer. The additional 2/3 meters should make no difference as they will be hanging down and add to the flow.

I think Magdrive pumps can be used at the end of the hose to draw water. If not I know Delivery/Demand can dry siphon also.


If it was me and the Tap water is OK. I'd use the Python waterchanger (petwarehouse and Bigals sell them)It will draw the water from the tank and can be used to fill it back up. It's a little slow and wastes water, but It is effective.


Hope this helps,
RandalB

[Smokey]

Howdy Chong; btw, Welcome back!
I am a person who not only uses pumps, but believe in them 100%.
An excellant TOOL, to have!
* Q1 - I strongly recomend " MAGDIVE # - 3 ". A very great pump, good flow rate, great head height, and has 1/2" npt threads on the intake and exhaust outlets. This pump is cheap to operate and 100% submergable.
* Q2 - attach a flexable hose to the # 3 intake. Vacum the tank and remove water at the same time.
*** OR- Place a cartrige filter, in the suction hose, to collect the debre before it enters the pumps empellor.
*Q3 - See *Q2.
*Q4 - See *Q1.
*Q5 - Nope. Using a pump solves so many problems and offers a person to expand .

*** Simply pump the water from you DISCUS tank, drain the hose; then throw the PUMP in you storage tank and pump the fresh water to the discus tank. Simple, and time saving...

I'v been using the MagDrive # 3's for over 5 years.. never a problem. Great dollar value !!!!
Oh, for the long hose, I just went out and purchased a high quality 100% 3/4" I.D. rubber garden hose. It is only used for my fish.!!!!.

Didn't mean to so winded.
Good luck, and may you floor stay dry.

Smokey
( Canada, eh.)

[BlueTurquoise]

Thanks guys, I forgot totally about mag drive inline pump hehe.

As for python, I had heard alot of people talking about them but never really knew what the heck they actually were. Google time...

Thanks again! Will let you know what I end up doing
Chong

[BlueTurquoise]

PFFT! is that what you call them! sheesh I got 3 of those things!

my problem is how to start the "python" in the first place... traditional mouth method or whatever...

I guess I will have to invest in some sort of inline magnetic drive pump and LOTS of hoses. Thanks again!

[BlueTurquoise]

Hey what about those hand pump thingies, it fits inline with a hose line and it has 2 one way valves, when you repeatedly squeeze the plastic ball part of it, it sucks water out of the tank and gets the siphon [part started... (kind of like a doctor's bloodpressure measurement hand pump)

has anyone had experience with that sort of pump?

[BlueTurquoise]

Smokey,

I need to move ~50 litres of water per water change (both ways, in and out of the tank). to do this in a resonable amount of time, lets say 20 mins, what sort of output pump will i need? YOu talk about a magdrive 3 (350gph if I am correct, so that's 1135lph) is that enough? considering I have over 8-12 metres of hose line?

What are your thoughts?

Also are the magdrives sold as Pondmaster PM-600 etc? how come I can't find MagDrive brand name, only pondmaster? where I can i get them on the net as Aquamail.com.au and Aquaria.com.au only list Pond Master brand(or is that one and the same??)

These are the models of PondMaster on Aquamail.com.au

10855 Pondmaster PM-600 600lph 0.9m 39.10
10856 Pondmaster PM-800 800lph 1.35m 72.10
10857 Pondmaster PM-1000 1000lph 1.95m 86.60
10854 Pondmaster PM-1500 1500lph 2.4m 121.30
10858 Pondmaster PM-2100 2100lph 2.5m 152.25
10859 Pondmaster PM-2800 2800lph 3.8m 165.75
10860 Pondmaster PM-3600 3600lph 4.5m 179.20
18061 Pondmaster PM-4200 4200lph 5.2m 195.00

which is equivalent to MagDrive 3? ie: http://www.pondliner.com/PM3.htm
??

[Smokey]

Same product different name.I like the 1500...2100.. models. Mag 3 and the Mag 5 models. they have enough power to move water over a distance and up a hose. The 1500 is the model I would suggest. Or for the xtra dollars go for the larger 3000 L.

Smokey

[BlueTurquoise]

Thanks Smokey!

Have you had much of a dabble with solenoid valves and float switches? I am investigating automated water change... long way off yet but I think I will make it a long term 2003 project...

Chong

Hey Chong,
Welcome Back you 'ol married man you.. :)

Randal could also help you out with your float valve. I just received my electronic shutoff today (for my reserve tank) and will be installing it soon. He helped me immensely...

Julz :)

[BlueTurquoise]

hey Julz! shave me bald, pass me a walking stick and call me "Pa"! hehe

How have you been???

Randal knows plumbing? cool! is there a tread on this beard regarding this very topic that I have not seen? I'll have to deeply investimagate as I am not sure where water feed will come from and where drainage will go yet.

I have another big fat issue and that is water conditioner... I have chloromines in my tap, I need to somehow auto dose 20-40 ml of water ager into the holding tank every time as well... any ideas?

:book: :gossip: :idea: :thumbsup:
Chong

[BlueTurquoise]

I think I will visit the plumbing supply shop today and see what they have to offer... I need safeguards as well... can't go flooding our beautiful carpet!

Chong

[Richman]

You don't need an inline pump to start and maintain a siphon. The python is easy to start. Just fill the large end with water - get it flowing down the hose-submerge the large end again (holding the open end up to let all air escape)-and when it is completely submerged the siphon will start automatically. Just so that the large vacumn end and a few feet of hose are filled with water. If you have to put the hose over the rail, it shouldn't stop the siphon as long as the water level is higher than the point where it goes over the rail. However........ it is faster with a pump and offers a great lesson for a newly wed husband. Don't let your wife know this as it gives you an opportunity to buy a new toy (pump !!). Never pass up an opportunity!! ;) ;D ;D ;D

[BlueTurquoise]

LOL got it! Secret stays on the this board! Siphon? what's that honey? naah i need a pump, it's the only way! lol

Chong

[NTORIUSB]

I just put together a "Python" like water changer....

I went to the hardware store bought a waterbed drain/fill for $4.99 and I bought 50' of clear tubing for $10.00 and a compression fitting for 1/2 ID 5/8 OD tubing to connect to the drain/fill piece. hen I connected my old hand siphon vacuum after I removed the check valve from the ball valve end....

Works GREAT!!! Especially for the $$$$$

If anyone is interested I'll take a pic and through it up!!!!

Later,
B ;D >:( 8)

[BlueTurquoise]

Please do! pics are always welcome!!! Thanks for the info! I am always looking to improve my efficiency!

At the moment I have a garden hose system set up. A garden hose runs from fish tank to balcony to garden 1 floor below (no one lives under me). I use a system of regular garden hose joints simmilar to these things:

http://www.nylex.com.au/display/G1055_1.jpg

I just connect the garden hose with one of these connectors, have one fo these other 2 way thingies in between:

http://www.nylex.com.au/display/G2831_1.jpg

and the end of the python hose has another one of these things:

http://www.nylex.com.au/display/G915_1.jpg

Then all i need to do is start the siphon by yee olde mouth method and connect the two together and Bob's Your Uncle. To get water back in I have a 20 Gal water container with a mag drive sump pump sitting in there full time. All I need to do is run a 8 metre hose from the pump (which runs on a similar system above) and turn the pump on.

Water change has been cut from 1 hour bucket bregafe to 10 mins! it is a beauty!

Chong

[NTORIUSB]

Hay, you got almost everything you need right there!!! All you need is this thing:

http://www.cornerhardware.com/db-images/items/910/077115105005.pre.jpg

The piece on the left..... It cost me $4.99 for everything you see in the kit..

You attatch it to the faucet and turn it on with it turned to drain and it'll suck a good vacuum, then turn the water off and it'll still pull water from your aquarium.. Then when you want to fill your tank, turn the bottom to fill and it'll pump all the water to your tank!!!

Easy!!!

[BlueTurquoise]

Looks very cool!!! what's it called? brand name? where did you buy it???

Interest level: 11 out of 10

Chong

[NTORIUSB]

I bought it at the local hardware store... Ace or Best, I forget which franchise?? Locally it's called Willow Hardware. It's been in my home town since god know's when, probably the 30's....

[Aquatic_Design]

Chong,
You can get them in any department store. (WalMart, KMart,etc). Go to the area that has water bed supplies.
HTH
Donna :)

[NTORIUSB]

Exactly.... Very common..


Did you get one yet????

[BlueTurquoise]

I haven't had much time to go and look for it yet, but I am pretty sure it's not at a department store like Kmart (US department stores are very different from Australian department stores, yours are about 10 times bigger). Anyway I have a fair idea where to get it.

Thanks for the info!

Chong

[NTORIUSB]

You can order it online... Just do a search for waterbed drain fill kit. That's hoe I found that picture...




Godd Luck!!!!
B

[goldengatediscus]

I need some help here please. Okay, I bought the waterbed drainer filler thing. Is there some kind of connector that I can use, so that the waste water doesn't go down the drain. I want to connect it to a hose, so that I can use this waste water to water my lawn and garden, instead of sending it down the drain.
Thanks,
Brigitte

[NTORIUSB]

Never even considered it.... Especially now with 12+" of snow on the ground!!!! Here in Ohio we don't have a water shortage, so water is cheap...

I guess you could put the water in to some kind of drum or bucket and then use a pump to water your lawn???

Good luck!!!
Brian

[BlueTurquoise]

Do you live on the ground floor? I live upstairs and I drain out the balcony onto the garden using a standard garden hose.

The fitting looks like standard 3/4 inch fitting. If not you could try to get a hose to fit on the end and use a hose clamp of some sort. Somethign like this:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005A1IY.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

Bring it to your local hardware store or walmart garden department and ask someone for advice. Sorry I don't have one of those yet to be able to help you out...

Chong

[DRRACING]

Mine came with an adapter to connect the drain or fill side to a garden hose so I can either connect the fill side to an outside sipggot or connect the fill side to the faucet inside and connect a garden hose to the drain side to drain it to the outside....