my newbie 100g planted tank

[shalu]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid47/pef0a2221957148ebf955aa135a4a170c/fcc5a311.jpg

This is my first serious attempt at planted tank and discus, both at the same time. The tank is less than 3 months old. The aquascaping is by no means "final" because I am just growing the plants right now. I need to slowly, painfully cure my TMVS(too-many-variety-syndrome) :P.

There is only one discus in there. I have two other discus completing metro treatment for hex right now and I plan to get some more soon.

Here is the whole album (http://www.pbase.com/shalu/my_planted_tank)

[jeep]

Looks nice. Can you give some closer photos and identify some plants, substrate, tank size etc...? I'm started a planted tank today and need some ideas...

[ChloroPhil]

Shalu,

Good to see you here! That's one heck of a tank! Is that Glossostigma or M. micanthremoides sloping in the left foreground? AWESOME!

[shalu]

Here is my tank info,

Tank: 100gallon Truvu plexiglass. 60x20x18, volume is more like 90g than 100g.

Stand/canopy: custom birds eye maple. Wife insisted- has to be furniture quality to be worthy of sitting next to the big screen TV Costed an arm and a leg, beautiful though.

Light: 302w PC from ahsupply. 2x96w and 2x55w fit perfectly in the canopy. On two timers for about 11hr photoperiod per day.

Filter: Amiracle SL150 wet/dry with QuietOne pump.

Substrate: 100% flourite. 6 bags. Wish I had 8 bags, might add some more later.

CO2: 10lb tank automated with PinPoint controller(ph at ~6.8). DIY reactor in sump of wet/dry powered by a AquaClear402 power head.

UV: customSeaLife 9w doubleHelix. In line with CO2 reactor. It actually dropped the flow rate of powerhead a little too much. Only on occasionally when needed(like killing green water).

Heater: 200w Azoo substrate cable heater + 100w VisiTherm in the sump. Controlled by AquaLogic digital thermostat(probe in sump). Temp at 82-83F. They are surprisingly efficient, no problem even with room temp in 50s.

Water change: 30% weekly straight tap water with Python(can't live without it). I just adjust tap water temp close to tank temp.

Fertilizer: TMG(tropica master grow) about 50ml/week using Eheim LiquiDoser, KNO3 3/4 teaspoon/day(currently using Grant's stump remover, I have powder when this runs out. What a nitrogen sink this tank is, still get 0 NO3 at the end of day ), K2SO4 1/2 teaspoon/day and a few drops of enema(PO4)/day. My Hagen phosphate test kit does not work well(reagent#3 changed to yellow due to aging). Just bought Kent AquaDoser 2.5gallon, will try it for NPK dosing so that I can go on a vacation .

KH/GH: KH=5, GH...pretty high, don't know exactly because my AP kit color change is very hard to discern.

Cost: setting it up almost broke my bank. Plus, I pay $50/month electrity just for this tank, ... in california. I still say, worth every penny.

As for plant ID, I am not too good at it since I ordered some package deal online. I figured out most of the plants, like rotala macrandra, "sunset" hygro, rotala indica, water sprite, Micranthemum (Hemianthus) micranthemoides, ludwigia granulosa, mayaca fluviatilis, aponogeton crispus, hygrophila corymbosa, a few crypts, java fern, bolbitis, a few species of anubias, water wisteria, bacopa monnieri, a few variaties of tiger lotus, dwarf hair grass, ludwigia arcuata, bacopa caroliniana, ludwigia repens x, hygrophila stricta, hygrophila polysperma, cardamine lyrata. I don't have close ups right now, might take some later. Not all of them are visible, even with naked eye because it is a jungle! Of course, there are quite a few species of algae growing there as well ;)

[shalu]

Thx Phil, glad to join you here on the "dark side" ;). That is M. micanthremoides on the left. Actually it is not sloping over anything, just a sloping mound :). Can't believe how fast this weed grows. I started almost from nothing, just a few remaining twigs when I got it. My two other weedy plants: mayaca and water sprite. They have one thing in common: they don't just gain height, they expand in volume! They look nice, but I don't know how long I can afford to keep them -- the mandatory weekly(or shorter) trimming is getting to be a pain pretty soon.

[Ralph]

TMVS - that really cracked me up. I think we all have a case of that. It is OK if I use that term in future posts?
That is a top of the line set up that you have there. Very impressive. But you made me realize that I am operating in the stone age of aquarium care though. My CO2 Coca Cola 2 liter bottle suddenly looks very archaic, I think I'll take the label off anyways.
Is your water unchlorinated? I didn't understand how you treated it.
Thanks for posting, I'll checkout your album later today.

[ChloroPhil]

Shalu,

I've got the same problems with my pearlgrass and mayaca. The micanthremoides grew into a huge pile of tangled stems after my first trimming. I'm hoping it will grow vertically now that I chopped it back hard. We'll see though....

I can't believe how much fertilizer you're putting in there! Maybe it's because of my poor CO2 reactor but if I added that much I'd be growing algae like nobody's business. Funny thing too...our tanks are just about identical, except for length and height. You've got an extra two feet of length and 6" less height.

[shalu]

It is OK if I use that term in future posts? Of course, Ralph, I am not even sure somebody else have not used it already ;) When I was way into roses and hang out in a garden forum, people were talking about DLS(disappearing-lawn-syndrome, because of all the roses we were planting you know). And when I was into orchids.... well, orchids aren't doing well because I spent all the green house budget on fish tank :P and I am neglecting them ... that can wait.



Is your water unchlorinated? I didn't understand how you treated it.
Actually my water does have chlorine. When I first filled the outdoor pond and impatiently put in my goldfish fries(from spawns in indoor tank) too soon, they died. However, I have learned online that many experienced aquarists don't dechlor their water for water changes up to 30% and had no ill effect. This seems to be true for me as well after two years of fish keeping(first goldfish tank, then tropical, finally planted discus). I don't believe I have chloramine or extremely amount of chlorine(no detectable smell), otherwise I would have added dechlor. Temperature matching had a visible effect on the fish: When I used cold water, the fish would get aggitated and swim around. Schooling fish would start to school very closely. Now they don't feel a thing after water change.

Phil, yeah our tanks have lots of similarities. I have had my fair share of algae wooes, remember I went through a gw episode as well. A few weeks ago I started to have hair algae problem. Pulled out a lot and it grew right back. Normally I hate to use chemical to control algae, but I have an almost full bottle of AlgaeFix I initially bought for outdoor pond. So I thought, what the heck, I will try this. After a few days of dosing 10ml, hair algae seems to be dying. Fish/plants are ok. This is just a temporary solution until I learn to take command of nutrient balance in true Tom Barr fashion ;). I only upped KNO3 to 3/4tsp/day from 1/2tsp/day a week ago. I just started to ponder: this nitrogen sink got to have some limits, is my AP kit acting up again? I just retested NO3 before I add KNO3 for the day, this time shook the reagent bottle REALLY hard(it is a known problem for AP kit to give low reading if not shaken enough), and got 7ppm! I am going to cut it back to 1/2tsp/day. When you over dose fert and got algae problem, do you know which ones are limiting and which ones are in excess? I have a hard time figuring that out due to test kit problems. One of these days, I am going to break down and get a full set of Lamotte kits. Maybe I will buy it as my own birthday gift ;). As far as CO2, I think if you have decent ph drop and kh value, your CO2 level should be ok?

[b3dlam]

Superb aquascaping!

Very impressive use of slopes and plant choices!


Can't wait to see the tank once the plants are a bit more established...

Excellent tank. :o

[ChloroPhil]

Shalu,

My CO2 system is in working order, if inefficient. I came home to lots of little bubbles and no visible clouding. My past GW problems have come from not enough Phosphate and too much trace. Now that I started using the enema, upped the amounts and frequency of Macros, and stick with 3ml of a pretty concentrate trace mix 2x/week I get good results and clear water.

I've got very poor test kits so don't often use them at all to be honest. I go by a known dose each time and then watch the tank for signs of unhappiness. I tend to run on lower amounts so I'm sure I could be getting better and faster growth if I upped my levels, but now that I've got something of a balance I'm a little afraid of changing things for fear of the GW monster coming back. Maybe one of these days once everything's grown in more I'll go a week with a double dose across the board and see what happens.

I had some haze come back the other week when my CO2 tube came out of the pump intake (my crude reactor) the day after I did a big dose. Out came the Diatom and two cycles later I was clear. I love that thing!

[shalu]

Sorry, I did not realize you have to sign up at imagestation to view my album. I have changed it to pbase (http://www.pbase.com/shalu/my_planted_tank).

[Ralph]

That is much better, I try to limit handing out my email address, etc. although I think it is a lost cause by now.
Your tank is so green, those small leafed plants really give a completely green background.
I like those rummies, I'm trying to limit my school but it keeps growing (I can't resist buying more every time I find some at a LFS). I got three more yesterday which brings me to 24. My dream tank is a 100 gal with 8 Santarem discus and 100 rummies, planted like yours with lots of driftwood.

[shalu]

Thx Ralph. I am finding out that I am a sucker for small leaved plants :). I have "culled" out amazon swords and most of aponogeton bulbs(one of them got to three feet long in three weeks! :o).

[Ralph]

My main tank is almost all swords (I have an apon in another tank that went from 3" to 15" in one week). It works in the overall appearance but I am coming around to the smaller plants. The problem though, and if you've read many posts here you know how important a clean tank is for discus, is that it is very easy to clean the substrate around the base of the swords, but I imagine it is more difficult around plants that are spread out. Is it a problem for you and do you do anything special to clean the substrate?

[shalu]

Ralph, yes, I am aware most discus folks strive to clean up as much fish waste from the tank as possible from reading at sites like this one. People even go "bare bottom" ;) to achieve that.

What I am still not sure is, is it still necessary in a HEAVILY planted tank when you have to add all the nutrients(including NO3, notice how much fertilizer I have to throw in the tank to grow plants IN ADDITION TO fish waste) to grow the plants? Does the mulm produce some true pollutants(and 30% weekly water change is not enough to dilute them), which harm discus, that are not nutrients for the plants to use?

I have also seen posts about juveniles in planted tanks being stunted. My question is, in those cases, is the feeding so heavy such that the waste(including NO3) still builds up despite plant absorption in a heavily planted tank? If so, I can understand it. Otherwise, it goes back to my first question. I have not seen definitive answer to this question.


Right now, I am not even trying to vacuum the bottom since I can't see it with the plant coverage :). For the limited time I have had the tank, my fish seem to be all healthy. The "runt"(stunted, bad shape) that is my first discus is much healthier now than when I first got him. The other two in metro treatment was due to buying from bad source. Anyway, I don't have enough discus population/experience to know if that will be a problem yet. That will change, since I am planning to get some more from a reputable breeder/importer soon. I think I will try them in the show tank first. If that does not work out, I will have to setup a growout tank.

Phil, you mentioned you moved the discus to your show tank already, am I correct? How are they coming along? Do they produce too much waste for you?

[Ralph]

I can tell that you have definately been reading some posts.
It is an issue of sorts although it has calmed down considerably from a few months ago. The problem is that we don't know exactly why the discus are often stunted and/or sick in a poorly maintained tank (what substance causes this). It can't be only the nitrates otherwise everyone would have plants in their tanks. And it is not just the mulm because even with it's removal, WCs are still required. There has been talk in the past about Growth Inhibiting Hormones, but that has been ruled out by some people.
All we really know at this point is that WCs and a clean tank give your fish a better chance of being healthy, which is true I think for all fish. It is just that discus appear to be more sensitive to bad conditions.
Based on that, I am trying to keep my tanks as clean as I can and do as many WCs as possible.

Do you know what kind of fish you will be getting?

[shalu]

I am not very literate about different strains yet. But I do know one thing: I am a sucker for colors. I plan to visit a hatchery in San Francisco and pick out whatever look striking to the eye :) When it comes to discus, I've also got TMVS-- I most likely will get all different strains, even though all of one strain might look more harmonious.

[ChloroPhil]

Shalu,

I've seen no problems what so ever with having my fish in the display tank. To be candid, I see no reason to ever have my fish in a non planted tank. They're doing better with the plants than they were in the bb. Their appetites are as strong and their coloring is better. Not to mention the water is more stable and more oxygenated.

The only stunting going on is due to the larger of the two not allowing the smaller to eat. He'll race across the whole four feet to keep the little one away from the other feeder cone. What an ***. :(

Even if I were to keep a school of 6-8 juveniles in here the schooling fish and bottom feeders do a marvelous job of keeping food from hitting the bottom. If some does end up making it down there my snails finish it off. Regarding water changes, if I had as much Nitrate and Phosphate going into the water as I would with 4-6 feedings of frozen food there would be little problem keeping the nutrient levels high enough with WC of every other day.


So, long answer to an easy question. No, I'm not seeing any problems. :)

[shalu]

Phil, that is good news. How many do you have there? Two? My discus "Uno" is also an *** :). After I removed its companions for hex treatment, it turned its aggression toward the two angelfish, but they deal with it just fine. I am looking forward to getting more discus and hopefully that will mitigate the aggression problem.