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Carol_Roberts
01-19-2003, 07:58 PM
Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) is a laxitive. It will help constipated, bloated fish pass feces (poop). You use 1 or 2 teaspoons for each 10 gallons of tank water. Disolve the epsom salt in a cup of water and pour into tank. It should work in 2 to 4 hours. You can redose after 4 hours, but if it hasn't worked in 24 hours, it probably won't work at all.

Regular salt (sodium chloride) also sold as kosher salt, pickling salt, rock salt or aquarium salt is the type of salt we eat. It helps discus gill function and will reduce fungus and bacteria at high enough concentrations. A typical dose is 1 or 2 tablespoons per ten gallon of tank water disolved in a cup and poured in tank. This treatment usually lasts a week or so.

To keep the salt concentration stable you must add more salt when you add clean water to the tank. Let's say you have removed 10 gallons of water for a water change and will be adding 10 gallons of clean water back. Add another 1 or 2 tablespoons salt to replace the salt lost through water change.

While epsom salt and regular salt are good on an occasional basis it is not good to have them in the tank all the time.


Carol :heart1:

engineguy129
01-19-2003, 09:45 PM
Cool info Carol thank you!

Rob ;D

fossil
01-20-2003, 12:39 PM
:) Good info Carol,......Good info

nicefishman
01-21-2003, 09:58 AM
Carol:

Good info, will Epsom salt change the ph ? ???

01-21-2003, 10:41 AM
Carol,, Good public service--I would like to add that the salt used in aquaria must be non-iodized. Plants do not appreciate salt.

Nicefishman, All salts raise the ph and hardness. Aquarium Salt and Epsom salts should be used in a hospital tank. Carbon will not remove these --only water changes will. But then we don't have carbon in our tanks --do we?

HTH, Joe ;)

nicefishman
01-22-2003, 11:11 AM
Carol:


Will Epsom salt change the pH ?

allan_mark76
01-22-2003, 02:22 PM
What about KCl (Potassium Chloride)??? It's sold at Home Depot in the Water Softner aisle. A large 5lbs bag costs only $6.56 and will last you forever. Good??? Bad??? Any differences???

Thanks.

A-

Carol_Roberts
01-23-2003, 12:28 AM
I have never tested the pH after using Epsom salt. However, It is one of the ingredients folks with soft water or straight RO water use to add minerals back to their water.

I have never used potassium Chloride.

CArol :heart1:

GWdiscus
03-20-2003, 02:59 PM
Carol,
I was wondering, how do you tell when your fish is constipated? If you could just give some pointers on what to watch out for.

Also, would it hurt to treat the entire tank or move the fish in question to a temperary tank form treatment?
thanks
Michael

gary1218
03-20-2003, 07:05 PM
Keep it up Carol. This is another one of your posts that I've booked mark for future reference :D

GARY

Carol_Roberts
03-20-2003, 10:21 PM
Hi MIchael:
Constipated discus look uncomfortable. They shimmy and many times you can see a pinched area behind the stomach. If it's really bad they lose their balance and can't swim normally. You can treat the entire tank, it won't hurt the other discus.

PARCS46
03-24-2003, 08:23 PM
Hi Guys; On the subject of constipation, I find that if feed my Discus, of any age live brine shrimp at least once a day there is no problem with irregularity. It's a natural alternative to epsom salt, plus your getting nutriments to your fish. On the topic of salt per se, a little Kosher Salt as per Carol's suggestion is on the money, 1 to 2 Tablespoons per ten gallons for grow outs as it adds the minerals they need to develope. I personally stay on the light side using only 1 TBSP per ten Gal. as my tap water comes in at a Ph of 6.2 - 6.8 & Dh of 2ppm to 8ppm, when it's on the high side nature I let take it course. Frequently Check your tap or well water for Ph & Dh it may have enough essential trace minerals. If not sure, either discontinue, get some help and always do your research. If still not sure it might be wise to get a sample of your supply water and your standing water to the Lab. If you want those fish healthy why not? Just Keep On Trucking: Sincerely: 8) 8) (Discus Devil)

Carol_Roberts
03-25-2003, 01:53 AM
Hi DD:
I agree with you on the brine shrimp - they do add roughage to the diet and help keep discus regular.

I do not recommend adding salt to the tank on a daily basis - only as needed to relieve stress or combat illness. Sodium chloride (table salt, kosher salt, pickling salt, etc) won't raise your GH by add minerals to your water or alter the pH. It will increase the TDS as it is a disolved solid.

It's always a good idea to know the composition of your water. IF you are on city water you can get a printout from them. folks on wells have to take a smaple to a testing facility.

gj555
04-06-2003, 09:19 PM
One thing on what Joe says above. You should not use regular salt in your planted tanks but you can definately use use epsom salt in your planted aquarium.

In fact epsom salt is magnesium sulfate which is one of the minerals that plants actually use. I use it as part of my fertiliser regiment.

chuck
04-18-2003, 08:47 AM
GJ555 is correct, I just finished reading an article on growing Tomatoes, It stated if you put a teaspoon of epsom salt in the planting hole your tomatoes will grow stronger and taste sweeter.. I plan on trying this during the late spring... I'll let you know if it works...
chuck

aziyaeian
04-19-2003, 12:29 PM
hi Carol;
what is your idea about (I2) combination in table salt.
isnt it toxic for fish? ???
I did try it for brine shrimp but all of them died.offcoarce I dont know the real resen. :'(
afshin

Carol_Roberts
04-19-2003, 01:52 PM
I2 . . .is that iodine? I have used table salt with iodine in fish tanks for small doses ( one tablespoon per 10 gallons ) with no ill effects. Generally I try to keep a supply on hand of salt without iodine. I've been using up some sea salt to hatch baby brine shrimp eggs.

aziyaeian
04-21-2003, 11:55 AM
Dear Carol;
What is your idea about the (I2) combination in table salt?
isnít it toxic for fish? :-[
I did try it for brine shrimp, and all of them died. Offcourse I donít know the exact reason of it.
Afshin

Carol_Roberts
04-21-2003, 02:29 PM
Hi Afshin:
What is I2?

Monette
04-25-2003, 12:08 PM
Hi Carol,

Someone on an Angel forum was asking about the Epsom salt treatment for constipation....I referred them to your thread.

She had/has an extra question that is not addressed in your original post.

That is...

Does it have any impact to raise the temp during this treatment?

TIA
Monette

aziyaeian
04-25-2003, 01:12 PM
hi carol
as you know I2 is idione.
Afshin

Carol_Roberts
04-25-2003, 04:51 PM
Hi Monnette:
There is no need to raise the temperature when using epsom salt.

Hi Afshin:
I try to use uniodized salt, but have used small doses (1 tbsp per 10 gallons) of salt with iodine. I have not seen any ill effects with limited use.

Smokey
05-25-2003, 03:33 PM
IODINE - IS A STERILIANT. It kills bacteria, fungus and some viruses.
Although the amount of iodine is small, in ''TABLE SALT - IODIZED SALT''; it can affect the biological bacteria.

Iodine is necessary for the human body to surive. Processed foods use table salt to add this iodine back into the food [ a cheap preserviant] and is a medical source for human iodine.

Iodine and clorine - very nasty stuff. Do be careful.

DO NOT USE IODIZED SALT !

Smokey

Luca
06-15-2003, 08:45 PM
Regular salt (sodium chloride) also sold as kosher salt, pickling salt, rock salt or aquarium salt is the type of salt we eat. It helps discus gill function and will reduce fungus and bacteria at high enough concentrations. A typical dose is 1 or 2 tablespoons per ten gallon of tank water disolved in a cup and poured in tank. This treatment usually lasts a week or so.

To keep the salt concentration stable you must add more salt when you add clean water to the tank. Let's say you have removed 10 gallons of water for a water change and will be adding 10 gallons of clean water back. Add another 1 or 2 tablespoons salt to replace the salt lost through water change.

While epsom salt and regular salt are good on an occasional basis it is not good to have them in the tank all the time.


Hey Carol, I have a few questions regarding this post.
1) It seems contradictory. You mention that if you take out 10gallons you should replaced the lost salt through 1-2Tablespoons in the next 10gallons but then you say to only use epsom and regular salt occasionally. And you say this treatment lasts a week, but salt stays in the water, so dosen't it last until you've effected a 100% water change?

2) So if kosher salt, pickling salt, rock salt or aquarium salt is the type of salt we eat then couldn't i just add salt from the supermarket to save money? (i.e table salt) but then does it depend if it's iodized?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really confused!
Luca.

Dave C
06-15-2003, 08:58 PM
Not contradictory at all. If you want to maintain salinity at 1-2 TbSp per 10g then you should add back salt for the water removed. Once you're done your unsalted water changes will remove the salt. If you change 50% daily you'll be down to <7% of the salt after 4 water changes. If you change less then you should increase your water changes to remove the salt quicker or just let it be removed over time.

Iodized salt isn't a good idea. Otherwise salt from the grocery store is fine. I use salt used for water softeners. I get it in 45lb bags for $4 at Home Depot.

Dave

Carol_Roberts
06-15-2003, 09:29 PM
Hi Luca:
Normally I don't have any salt or epsom salt in my discus water.

A few weeks ago I purchased a dozen RSGxFlakes babies from Cary at Great Lakes Discus. They were shipped to me via Airborne Express. When I Put them in the 55 gallon tank I also put in 10 Tbsp. salt. The next day I removed 25 gallons of water and replaced it with 25 gallons of freshwater + 4 Tablespoons salt. I repeated this daily for about 5 days.

The salt is disolved in the water. When I removed 25 gallons of water I was also removing about 4 tablespoons of salt. Then I quit adding the salt with the 25 gallon water change. Each 50% water change removes 50% of the salt remaining in the tank. In just a few days the tank containes only fresh water.

I buy uniodized salt at the supermarket. Rock salt is kinda dirty. I haven't tried the water softener salt yet.

Smokey
06-16-2003, 12:06 AM
SO, the fairy tale is over !??
Once person expresses the use of it and then does a 90' degree turn around. Who do you believe !
Salt and Salts: two different items .

Salt; whether mined or distilled from the oceans; is only that - Salt.

Iodized Salt - Has been refined, made pure for human consumption, AND HAS IODINE added ! Iodine is a separte chemical. It is necessary for the survival of humans. Apparently , the human body can not produce iodine.

chemically speaking ; there are many books written about the importance of iodine; medical references.

Epson Salts - a different isalts.
Iron - a salts
calcium - a salts
etc. - a salts.

Open up a distiller, the heating element has salts on it. The residue collecting on the glass of an aquarium - Salts.

Smokey.

Carol_Roberts
06-16-2003, 12:16 AM
Huh? you confused me Smokey?

Smokey
06-16-2003, 12:18 AM
on which point , Carol

ronrca
06-16-2003, 01:56 PM
Ive used and still use water softener salt that you buy in big bags from Home Deport! Works great! ;)

Dave C
06-16-2003, 02:29 PM
I'm confused too.

"SO, the fairy tale is over !??
Once person expresses the use of it and then does a 90' degree turn around. Who do you believe !"

Who did the 90ļ turn? Carol said she'd used iodized salt sparingly and did not recommend it. What is the fairy tale?

Smokey
06-16-2003, 05:09 PM
True - pure natural salt. or rock salt.

Salt thats has been mined; is in slabs, much like any other mineral.
A time honoured profession , dating back 1000's of years.

The degree of processing, determines it's final name./ use.

Smokey

Dave C
06-16-2003, 05:30 PM
Oh, ok. That cleared it up. Just curious, what time does the bar open in your town??

barron
06-22-2003, 04:22 PM
Epsom salt can be added to food at 1/2 tsp. per 2 oz. food
add alittle Knox clear gel. Stand-by with cleaner. :o :o :o ;D

angel12
07-05-2003, 07:41 AM
erm so at the moment I have aquarium salt and was thinking of adding it to my Planted Tank .. at the ratio given on carols first page .... the reason I was thinking of giving it is that my adults are still off there food I have dewormed/fluked them but they are not eating much ... Is it a good idea to add Salt what are the implications as this is a Community Tank

TUBBAZ
09-28-2003, 05:27 AM
what is epsom salt because i used to live in epsom surrey?

Carol_Roberts
09-28-2003, 11:37 AM
Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate

hexed
11-05-2003, 12:02 AM
Carol,
I'm very new to discus and I just purchased some. Tthe discus have been in my tank for about a month. One night before I went to bed I noticed that one of the babies had a very fat belly and stayed at the bottom of the tank, like it was weighed down. Well the next morning I found it floating with all it's insides out. I examined it and it had a 1/8 - 1/4 inch slit on the bottom of it. There was no sign of another fish biting it, just looked like it popped? I was told to add epson salt to my tank after I told my local aquarium about it. Can you give me an idea as to what cause my discus to EXPLODE?

Carol_Roberts
11-05-2003, 12:10 AM
Overeating or bacterial infection and/or blocked gut.
That must have been a painful death :-\
Epsom salt is good to have on hand - use it any time you suspect a problem with bloat or overeating.

hexed
11-05-2003, 01:07 AM
Thanks so much for your help! ;D

mugen920
11-08-2003, 05:50 PM
hi carol
if the epsom doesnt work for my bloated fish
what can i use then ? thankx ???

Carol_Roberts
11-08-2003, 09:50 PM
Then you can try an internal antibiotic like kanacyn, but I've not heard of many discus who have succesfully recovered :-\

mugen920
11-09-2003, 05:06 PM
my fish finally poo.. the poo was big ;D
it took like 3 days to help the fish poo

Carol_Roberts
11-09-2003, 09:13 PM
Good old epsom salt, works like a charm. Your discus may be prone to bloat. Soak his food, feed frozen brine shrimp and use the epsom salt if he looks bloated again.

Smokey
11-09-2003, 11:45 PM
Some Times I wonder; other times I just turn my head and ignore the respondises.

Others - just surprize me.

MPO -

My persoanl appoliges to the Intellenegent people; all other persons --- be very aware of what you introduce into your tank.

Smokey

MY personal expirence ......

11-10-2003, 09:31 AM
Some Times I wonder; other times I just turn my head and ignore the respondises.

Others - just surprize me.

MPO -

My persoanl appoliges to the Intellenegent people; all other persons --- be very aware of what you introduce into your tank.

Smokey

MY personal expirence ......


A question on behalf of the entire board....what in theeee HELL are you talking about?! ???

jason87
12-25-2003, 05:44 AM
how do i know whether the salt i purchased is epsom salt or regular salt? because sometimes there is no label.

Ardan
12-25-2003, 06:02 AM
It should say either Epsom salt (or magnesium sulfate)

or salt if its regular salt (it usually says whether it contains iodine or not also)


hth

jason87
12-25-2003, 12:06 PM
it just state aquarium salt.

Carol_Roberts
12-25-2003, 12:11 PM
Aquarium salt is regulars salt like table salt. You will not find epsom salt at the fish store. You will find epsom salt at the grocery store in the drug section or drug store - people use it to soak their feet

jason87
12-26-2003, 10:36 AM
is there any other ways to help me discus pass feaces? i think i have a cobalt, constipated for around 1 month. i have never seen it pass out any feaces b4. it has poor appetite too. is it stunted?

Carol_Roberts
12-26-2003, 02:11 PM
IF you cobalt has not eeaten for a month there probably is no feces to pass.

IF his stomach has been swollen for a month I would suspect a bacterial infection. Unfortunaltely these do not respond well to treatment.

You might try a course of kanacyn and/or metronidazole

outlawpc
12-26-2003, 06:27 PM
Thought you might be interested in Jack Wattley's response to using aquarium salt in a discus tank, quoted from the February 2004 issue of "Tropical Fish Hobbist". . .

"As a rule, salt (sodium chloride) is not necessary in a discus tank."
"Any addition of salt in the aquarium will increase the conductivity (hardness) of the water."
"I wouldn't concern myself with any thoughts about adding salt to the aquarium."

There is hardly anyone who I have more repect for in the keeping of discus than Mr. Wattley. . . you would think with that comment I would let things rest. . . but. . .

IMVHO aquarium salt appears to have more benefits to using it than drawbacks.
Although in their natural habitat there may be little salt if any in a discus' home waters, however that is not a basis to determine whether to use salt in a home aquarium with discus. There is a tremendous difference in the two environments (but I'm sure you all recognize that).

What I have found is as others have stated is that it can help reduce stress. . . and you know how stressed-out our little discus buddies can get (just approach their tank a little too quickly and you have propably found out :-)

Using aquarium salt IMVHO quickly eliminates newly developing fungus on discus fins (very quickly, certainly within 24 hours). I have also found that split fins heal rapidly with the use of salt, again within a day or two.

Many of you might agree with me so far. . . but, how about regularly using a small amount of salt?

Here is I believe where opinions differ :-)

My own personal belief is that there is enough things going on in your/my aquarium that one of those fish are going to get or contract some kind of boo-boo (that's scientific for infection, split fin, etc.). How much is a little. . . maybe one-half to one tablespoon per 10 gallons of water, since everyone's water chemistry is a little different.

When Jack Wattley poled various breeders of discus from around the world in his book "Discus for the Perfectionist," The main ingredient to keeping discus happy was "water changes, water changes." Certainly this is the key to maintaining discus, one that thou shalt not break. . . assuming you want to keep discus. Although frequent water changes alone will solve many of the problems, adding a little salt just adds to their overall well-being.

Then again, maybe it is just me thinking that a pinch of salt makes the difference (must be the Italian in me :-)

Carol_Roberts
12-26-2003, 09:27 PM
While salt does increase the conductivity and tds (total disolved solids) it does not increase hardness.

Homes with water softeners have high tds, but the warter is very soft. Water softeners replace the calcium and magnesium ions with salt.

I don't keep salt in the tank. I save it for when I have a problem.

outlawpc
12-29-2003, 11:39 PM
Thanks for the input Carol. . . what is your main reason to not add salt on a regular basis?

Carol_Roberts
12-30-2003, 01:19 AM
I think of salt for discus as like Nyquel for me. Nyquel does not cure my cold but helps alleviate symptoms of the cold. I could take Nyquel every night, but there is no need. Perhaps I would build a tolerance to it and need to take a larger dose when actually ill or perhaps the acetomeniphen would damage my liver over time. Same with salt for discus. Do the cell membranes adjust to a constant increased level of salt? Does salt over a long period of time affect the discus kidneys?

outlawpc
12-30-2003, 01:51 AM
I respect your opinion, just not sure the comparisons you make are applicable.

There are many things we take or use on a regular "moderate" basis that helps improve or sustain our lives. It is not a foregone conclusion that taking or using something on a regular basis (we are still talking about moderate use) is harmful. . . the opposite could be true.

Taking a Children's Bayer Aspirn each day has been shown to prevent heart attacks in humans is an example. A glass of red wine each day might be another.

I'm not sure these are the greatest examples, but it might make a point of doing something is better than not.

I realize my post was speculative, based on my own personal experiences. It seems to work???

nostalgia
01-26-2004, 10:15 AM
how do i know whether the salt i purchased is epsom salt or regular salt? because sometimes there is no label.


Hello. U can go to most pharmacy to get it. I dun think Watson sell them thou... It's abt $3.00 plus minus.
Oh yeah prepare a container to store it. ;D

taters
03-23-2004, 11:27 PM
Here's an article that may help clear up the confusion about "salts".
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/salt.html

kalawai
04-29-2004, 03:26 PM
I use Epsom salt on my horses to draw out infection and to bring down swelling.
It's also good for aching feet......aah ;)

Gnopvp
06-10-2004, 12:59 AM
About rock salts..... I have heard it's bad to use rock salts that contain potassium chloride; is it true? About magnesium and calcuium chloride...is it better to get the rock salt that comes with these 2 chloride or just straight sodium chloride?

Carol_Roberts
06-10-2004, 11:27 AM
When using regular salt I like sodium chloride

06-12-2004, 07:06 PM
One more point of Epsom salt..... Fish loves the taste of it, will nibble and swallow it. I always make a small portion of my BH laced with dewormer and concentrated epsom salt to improve appetite, clean out the guts one meal a week. that will keep the internal worms away. One other point is does anybody know if epsom salt affact the biological filter? How about the regular salt? Do you have to remove them with Carbon? Ot just W/C? I let someone else answer it.
Jimmy.

Anonapersona
09-13-2004, 12:13 PM
I've never heard of any issues with the biofilter with epsom salts. We add epsom salts to planted tanks to balance the calcium/magnesium levels. I doubt we use enough to be concerned.

Adding 0.5 teaspoons per 10 gallons give 7.8ppm magnesium (from Chuck Gadds' calculator) and the target magnesium level for a planted tank is 5 to 10 ppm assuming no magnesium in the water already. That is the dose suggested by Puregold goldfish site for treating dropsey (note no regular salt is used at the same time, do water changes to remove regular salt), I think the sticky in the Beginner Section here suggests higher doses of epsom salts for discus. Anyhow, that ought to be a safe amount to add.

As for salt and biofilters in general, at some point you will be getting into salt conditions that would not be suitable to freshwater bacteria. But there is a lot of leaway there, as long as you allow the filter to adjust.

Info from Puregold http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html(one of my favorite sites for general fish health info);
0.1% salt (~1 teaspoon/gallon) which is low concentration is said to a be a limit on how much one can add in a day, any more will shock the biofilter. 0.2% will kill off floating plants but not most rooted plants in ponds (from Bonnie's Plants testing). 0.3%, added over 3 days, is considered "preventative" and is for nitrite protection (2.5 teaspoons/gallon) A medium concentration is up to 0.5%, and this must be done over a period of days to allow the biofilter to adjust. 0.9% kills and is used for short term dips to shock parasites and knock off slime coat. Solar salt (for water softeners, really cheap) is recommended and is slow disolving, fine salt can burn gills or skin. Puregold sites many USDA, Texas A&M, and Purdue University publications as references.

Now, I wonder if we discus keepers have been careful about shocking the biofilter when adding salt?? Any more than 1 teaspoon/gallon a day would be an issue.

Salt is removed by water changes.

As for potassium chloride, WetmanNy on SkepticalAquarist.com says that if you must go through a water softener, then switch to KCl insted of NaCl. The reduced sodium is a good thing for plants and fish. In the planted tank fourms we do talk about K overdose, but debate what that might look like in plants, never a concern about the fish.

bio new
10-20-2004, 11:46 PM
Hi,

Is Epsom, a generic or a brand name for salt? I cudn't find any in my country.

Carol_Roberts
10-21-2004, 12:21 AM
It's magnesium sulphate

bio new
10-21-2004, 07:49 AM
Thx Carol.

Will look for it at a local drug store and I think, if it is available, i want to add it to my homemade BH. What do u say?

CHEERS!

Carol_Roberts
10-21-2004, 10:54 AM
I add it directly to the water. Bloated, constipated fish shouldn't be eating more . . .

Gold Nugget
11-16-2004, 01:08 AM
So others are not so confused: I must say your wrong on both counts, read the info at the following link:

http://www.aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm

1) Iodized or non-iodized can be used in aquaria safely.

2) All salts don't raise the PH and KH, "try it for youself".


Carol,, Good public service--I would like to add that the salt used in aquaria must be non-iodized. Plants do not appreciate salt.

Nicefishman, All salts raise the ph and hardness. Aquarium Salt and Epsom salts should be used in a hospital tank. Carbon will not remove these --only water changes will. But then we don't have carbon in our tanks --do we?

HTH, Joe ;)

Carol_Roberts
11-16-2004, 01:40 AM
So others are not so confused: I must say your wrong on both counts, read the info at the following link:

http://www.aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm

1) Iodized or non-iodized can be used in aquaria safely.

2) All salts don't raise the PH and KH, "try it for youself".
Are you talking to me?
If so all table salt - sodium chloride does not raise pH or KH. Magnesium sulphate (epsom salt) does.

Gold Nugget
11-16-2004, 02:00 AM
Hi and no that reply was to the guest remark...though a long time ago. I think a lot of people are confused about the use of salts in freshwater aquaria.

I use the 50 lb bags of Morton Solar Salt from the Depot for $5, it's in a crystal form and disolves extremly fast in the warm discus water.

http://www.mortonsalt.com/consumer/products/watersoftening/white_crystal_ss.htm

How Your Water Softener Turns Hard Water Into Soft Water:

The principle behind water softening is really just simple chemistry. A water softener contains resin beads which hold electrically charged ions. When hard water passes through the softener, calcium and magnesium ions are attracted to the charged resin beads. It's the resulting removal of calcium and magnesium ions that produces "soft water." The diagram shows the exchange that takes place during the water softening process.

http://www.mortonsalt.com/faq/faq_indu.asp


Are you talking to me?
If so all table salt - sodium chloride does not raise pH or KH. Magnesium sulphate (epsom salt) does.

aggie_67
11-16-2004, 12:48 PM
Bio New,

In regard to adding epsom salt to your BH, don't feed it constantly, Epsom is a laxitive. You wouldn't want a laxitive in your food continously!

bio new
11-18-2004, 10:14 PM
Bio New,

In regard to adding epsom salt to your BH, don't feed it constantly, Epsom is a laxitive. You wouldn't want a laxitive in your food continously!Thx alot Aggie, will separate the BH that contains epsom. Will it be o.k. if feeding is done once a fortnite? :confused:

CHEERS!

Carol_Roberts
11-19-2004, 05:19 PM
I only use it when the discus show symptoms of constipation.

wvt9527
02-16-2005, 01:11 PM
In my oppion after just reading all the reply's is if you never used salt before. Always start with the lower portion of salt which I would be to beleive is .5 tbs per 10 gallon & only after you do a 50% wc. On the next day do another 50% wc for at least 4 days to remove all the salt that you have added.

Carol_Roberts
02-16-2005, 05:04 PM
Epsom salt will not hurt the fish or the biofilter. Folks who use pure RO water use magnesium sulphate (Epsom salt) to add minerals back to their water.

jamie sutherland
09-30-2005, 09:54 AM
can you use both salts at the same time without any bad affects?

Carol_Roberts
10-01-2005, 11:22 PM
Yes, you can add regular salt and epsom salt at the same time

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-14-2006, 05:21 PM
IODINE - IS A STERILIANT. It kills bacteria, fungus and some viruses.
Although the amount of iodine is small, in ''TABLE SALT - IODIZED SALT''; it can affect the biological bacteria.

Iodine is necessary for the human body to surive. Processed foods use table salt to add this iodine back into the food [ a cheap preserviant] and is a medical source for human iodine.

Iodine and clorine - very nasty stuff. Do be careful.

DO NOT USE IODIZED SALT !

Smokey


Just to clear this up. I have done extensive research on this subject and have written the article on Salt on Simply Cichlids. The Iodine in regular table salt is in it's iodide form and is not harmful for fish at all. Pure iodine would be harmful but iodide is not and is actually benificial in small doses. The issue is a result of hype created by someone who say the word "iodized" on a box of salt and assumed pure iodine.

pcsb23
06-14-2006, 05:46 PM
Just to clear this up. I have done extensive research on this subject and have written the article on Salt on Simply Cichlids. The Iodine in regular table salt is in it's iodide form and is not harmful for fish at all. Pure iodine would be harmful but iodide is not and is actually benificial in small doses. The issue is a result of hype created by someone who say the word "iodized" on a box of salt and assumed pure iodine.
Actually, you have a very valid point. I always advise non-iodised out of habit (bad one too). I have used all types of salt at some point, from Saxo table salt through rock salt and cooking salt, also reef salt (too many brands to remember). All have worked well and at no time have there been any probs. maybe this is another one for the 'Myths of Discuss Keeping' ~ mmm, maybe I should write a book....

sleonard
06-14-2006, 08:37 PM
Just to clear this up. I have done extensive research on this subject and have written the article on Salt on Simply Cichlids. The Iodine in regular table salt is in it's iodide form and is not harmful for fish at all. Pure iodine would be harmful but iodide is not and is actually benificial in small doses. The issue is a result of hype created by someone who say the word "iodized" on a box of salt and assumed pure iodine.

I don't know one way or another but the message you responded to did not claim harm to the fish but to the biological colony in the filter. So the question still remains - will iodine in the iodide form harm your filter bacteria?

Scott

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-14-2006, 10:08 PM
The answer is no. Regular table salt is not harmful to your biofilter unless you add it in too high a concentration directly and then it is the salinity that is problematic, not the iodide.

ponderingky
05-25-2007, 08:54 PM
Interesting reading - I seem to be having a problem w/bloat or constipation. I have had to dose my tank 3 times in the last week because different fish are getting stopped up. BTW - thank you Carol for your post on common problems - I thought I had a bad problem when my first fish did the head down, shimmy bloat dance. Do I need to do more than a 30% w/c after each dose of epsom or should I leave the water alone for a day or two and let the epsom stay in the water to help the others? I have only had these fish for a week and the breeder fed fbw almost exclusively. I have added Omega One flakes to increase their nutritional intake and I suspect that this is causing the bloat problems. Hopefully after their systems adjust to different (more nutritional) food this will resolve itself. One last question - is it harmful to dose epsom several times in a short period (week or less)?

Apistomaster
09-23-2007, 12:36 PM
Magnesium sulfate, Epsom 's salt is the primary mineral that causes permanent hardness and one we spend so much money on RO filters to remove. It is a laxative in mammals but the bloat that causes disequilibrium among discus, especially the fast growing greedy adolescents is usually caused by an accumulation of gas bubbles in the gut. Typically after a heavy feeding of a commercial dry food. It goes away on it's own but the fishes contortions are disconcerting while they are try to pass the gas bubbles.
There are no benefits to using it. Since the problem goes away on its own if Epsom's salt is used it is only coincidental to the relief of symptoms. As one of the other posters mentioned, add this to another one of the urban discus myths. Epsoms salt will raise pH a little.

Table salt is harmless but is does contain anti-clumping chemicals which cloud the water. Water softener salt or common rock salt are cheap alternatives to the same substance repackaged and sold to aquarists at inflated prices. NaCl, common salt does not alter pH.

tcup
06-13-2009, 11:13 PM
soooooo...... is it not neccessary to use aquarium salt? i have been using it for about a month now because i was told it helps keep the fish healthy. true?

Eddie
06-13-2009, 11:20 PM
soooooo...... is it not neccessary to use aquarium salt? i have been using it for about a month now because i was told it helps keep the fish healthy. true?

Nope, not necessary at all. ;)

Eddie

ILuvMyGoldBarb
06-14-2009, 07:45 AM
Agreed. Not necessary at all, in fact, in many ways, salt can really be more harmful long-term to your fish if it is used in the concentrations that most stores recommend.

tcup
06-14-2009, 10:13 AM
ok then...thanks guys:)

smiley
08-30-2009, 11:30 AM
Just a wild question...is marine salt the same?

ILuvMyGoldBarb
08-30-2009, 03:50 PM
No, marine salt contains lots of additional minerals vital to the health of marine life. Things like Magnesium, Strontium, Iodine, Molybdenum, and other trace elements are present in marine salt but not in aquarium salt. Epsom salt does contain the Magnesium though.

smiley
10-10-2009, 12:48 PM
Quick one...can presence of Epsom or Table salt effect aquarium plants?

ILuvMyGoldBarb
10-10-2009, 04:14 PM
at high enough concentrations, yes. a concentration of 1tbsp/5gal would have an effect, but a 1:10 or 1:20 would likely not. Much of it will also depend on the plant. There are some plants that do well in brackish water and they would be fine.

marjan777
10-12-2009, 02:29 AM
ok nice info,

question please:

any of epson or regular salt have affect on good filter bacteria ???

thanks:)

rickztahone
10-12-2009, 02:36 AM
ok nice info,

question please:

any of epson or regular salt have affect on good filter bacteria ???

thanks:)

no, not at all IME

ILuvMyGoldBarb
10-12-2009, 06:11 AM
Again, the matter of concentration comes in to play, however concentrations that would have an adverse effect on your biofilter would also likely kill your Discus as well.

I think it may be important to point out yet again, that long term use of these 2 kinds of salt is not necessary and not recommended. Each has a medicinal use in the aquarium and should only be used for the period of time necessary to rectify those issues.

lissy
08-30-2010, 10:42 AM
GJ 555 could you please tell me what apart from epsom salts you use for your plant fert? I have anubias and swords any help would be great!:)

Eddie
08-30-2010, 06:42 PM
GJ 555 could you please tell me what apart from epsom salts you use for your plant fert? I have anubias and swords any help would be great!:)

This is a very old thread. You don't need epsom salt for good growth of the plants you have. My Anubias always grew strong and fast with zero additives in the water. Swords however, need LOTS of nutrients. I always had amazing growth using only fertilizer tabs placed into the substrate, near the roots.

Skip
10-14-2010, 05:50 PM
Can epson salt be used as something to keep the fish Regular? i guess is it good to flush them out every once in awhile? esp. juvies.. since they eat soo much and everything... just wonderin...

pcsb23
10-14-2010, 06:04 PM
There should be no need if their diet is anything near correct. I would think that long term use would do the fish no favours at all, imagine if you took the salts on a regular basis ....

Willie
10-15-2010, 06:52 AM
Epsom salt is magnesium chloride. Table salt is sodium chloride. So these salts have very different effects on fish.

Epsom salt is used in heavy concentrations when discus get constipated. In my experience, it works pretty well. Magnesium is seldom limiting in a planted tank so it has no fertilizer effect.

Sodium chloride works at heavy doses to treat sick fish. It doesn't do anything for healthy discus.

Best of luck, Willie

tracyk859
10-28-2010, 09:20 PM
Thanks for the post.
Hi guys, Im a newbie. Nice to join this forum.





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tbone83
11-21-2010, 06:17 AM
great info carol, i learned something new for today!

timmy82
10-06-2012, 06:55 AM
Very good post been going for some years now.

Vikrantm1
05-03-2013, 12:43 PM
Hi Carol,

Please advice any specific reason you have mentioned we should dissolve it in a cup of water and then add, I generally drop it into the tank.

Thanks

aalbina
05-03-2013, 12:55 PM
This is an 11 year old thread. Carol is no longer on the forum.

My opinion is that it dissolves the salt in solution prior to putting it in the tank. This will help to distribute the salt evenly through the water immediately rather than the salt dropping straight to the bottom and dissolving over time.

Adam

Vikrantm1
05-04-2013, 03:22 AM
Ok thnkas

alexsano
09-04-2013, 02:52 AM
good stuff and noted on Epsom Salt

netlooose
09-16-2013, 12:38 AM
Very good info. Thank you.

Ell20
12-05-2013, 05:45 PM
Very useful info, thanks.

monilovesdiscus
03-29-2014, 03:27 PM
Thanks guys! This information was invaluable. My poor discus started swimming oddly today and I panicked and found your site. Luckily, I've started treatment with the Epson salts though I did pull him from his tank. A few of the other guys were picking on him and I didn't want to add huge amounts of magnesium to my primary tank. He's hospitalized. I read that you should have them in shallow water to keep them from stressing as much. I don't know if it's true but I put him in one of those breeding net containers for the side of the tank and he's settling down and finally is swimming upright and seems less stressed. I thought I'd pass that tidbit on to everyone. Thanks for your wonderful advice! I'm reading through threads learning as much as I can to treat my new kiddos well.

Monica