Cycling and set-up Recomendations

[DavisH]

I am starting my first discus tank. I have filled with substrate, water, and brought up to temperature. I was under the assumption that the best way to cycle my filter was by adding hardy fish, but I have seen posts suggesting adding pure ammonia. What is the best way?

Additionally, I have an aquaclear 300 for a 55-gal tank. Is this enough filter? Planning an initial stock of 4-6 medium sized discus, with live plants.

Finally, when it the best time to add my live plants in this process?

Thanks for any help. This seems like a great site.

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't think you're going to like hearing the "best way".

Remove your substrate. The AC 300 will work - I'd add a hydro sponge too or another AC 300 at some point.

You can do a fishless cycle with pure ammonia. It takes the same amount of time as using danios/fish and you can build a higher bacteria load.

If you must have plants, put them in pots and add them next December when the discus are fully grown.

[BlueTurquoise]

I concur,

the best way to raise your discus is to feed them often and with very meaty, high protien foods, that unfortunately fouls up your water faster than you can change it. If you choose the planted tank path you can achieve this but you are going to need to do alot of maintenance and large daily water changes (which your plants may not like as this deprives them of C02).

It's a very give or take situation. It can work, but if you are a beginner (like me) I would think twice about it. I have problems keeping them healthy and well fed in a tank with nothing but water, a heater and filters... I'd hate to think how I could do it with plants and gravel too...

Chong

[dm]

DavisH, welcome to Simply. You have come to the right place to ask your questions. You have already got some good advice. A planted tank is doable for Discus (I am probably a lot more liberal on this subject than most) but as Chong pointed out there is a lot more maintenence and risk involved. For people starting out I would suggest listening to carol. A bare bottomed tank with no plants is the easiest and safest way to start out in the hobby. Most people will like this method better once they get used to it anyway. Good luck with your fisrt Discus. I know you will enjoy them.

[DavisH]

Thanks for all of your responses. Some information is surprising. I was under the assumption that adding plants would actually help water quality by removing nutrients, etc., and I was initially planning a 25% changeout weekly (although this would be detemined by experience and pH, ammonia, hardness, NO2, and NO3 tests, etc.). I was also going to have a CO2 addition system.

This has definately caused me to rethink things and I will let you know how it progresses.

How much ammonia should I add - calculate based on anticipated fish load?

Thanks for the depth of your responses and promptness. I look forward to sharing ideas and successes/failures with you in the future.

[Carol_Roberts]

For the fishless cycle I add enough ammonia to register 4-5ppm. I test the water from time to time and add ammonia if needed. When you start to show nitrItes and ammonia goes to zero your cycle is nearly over. I still feed a bit of ammonia every other day. When you show nitrAtes and nitrItes start to drop you are nearly there. Don't overdo the ammonia. Too much may slow the cycle.

When nitrItes show zero do a massive water change - like 90% as nitrAtes will be through the roof! Then you can safely add discus.

[ronrca]

Hi DavisH and welcome to simply!
As this is your first discus tank, let me also add to the advise and recommendations. First, as you will already of noticed, discus are not your $2 fish. Discus are expensive. Get comfortable caring for your discus, observing their behavior, perfecting their water parameters (constant at all times) and performing maintenance at regular intervals. I know you did mention weekly water changes however, a word of advise, daily water changes are preferred along with aging the water (which is a must).

The above is easiest done in a bare bottom tank.

Second! Next are the plants and the same advice as the discus, if you can get another tank or already have one, try to become proficent at growing plants and their requirements.

To conclude, nothing IMO beats a beautiful planted tank with beautiful discus. HOWEVER, nothing is worst than having both discus and plants suffer from, shall I say (not being rude) lack of experience/knowledge and possibly giving up. Believe me, the extra effort and patience is worth.

[Karen]

Hi DavisH,

I started with a gravel bottom and planted tank. No matter how much I siphoned the bottom it was never really clean. Plus I had to keep replacing the plants as they were not happy. After a fair amount of consideration I decided to go bare bottom. I nearly lost my fish because of bad water. I only wish I had known about this site and asked the question before I had the Discus. It would have saved me a lot of work.

Now I still have some plants in pots, and a bit of driftwood and it doesn't look to bad and it is so much easier to do the w/cs.

Karen

[DavisH]

I think I have been convinced to go the bare-bottomed way, keeping a separate tank for plants and fish and then combine both interests when I have more experience.

Considering the bare-bottomed setup, what is the minimum size tank/filter combo you would recommend? Also, do you keep a quarantine tank ready to go at all times?

With all the setups, I guess I need to convince my wife that our house is becoming an aquarium showplace.

Davis

[ronrca]

Better to convince your wife now than later! Believe me! I started with a 2G betta bowl 3.5 years old! Now I have 7 tanks, 5 running and building another 5 more! ;D

The size of tank will depend on 3 things, your wallet, number of discus you want and your wife allowing it in the house! 4-6 discus, using 10G per discus, your looking at least 60G! Go bigger if you can since you will out grow your tank very quick (I went from 2G to 30G to 90G within 6 months). However, a bigger tank will than depend on your wallet and space in the house (you dont really need your couch, do you?)

About filters, so many on the market! Canisters are good! Aqua clears are the cheapest and great filters!

QT is important and yes must be running all the time!

[DavisH]

Thanks for your input. I guess we have to do a lot of convincing that the tanks add to the "decor" and "ambiance" of the outstanding interior designs of our homes.

[Carol_Roberts]

My vote is for a 29 gallon Q-tank for the babies first 6 weeks then a 55 gallon for grow out. These are the sizes I use the most. The 29 is perfect for quarantine, hospital or breeding. The 55 is perfect for growing out 6 - 8 juveniles or a batch of babies.

[BlueTurquoise]

Yeah, skip on the canisters, good ones cost 3-4 times that of a good AC500 filter which is all you will need for a 55gal. Does a evry good job and is easy to clean.

I agree with Carol (gee she's full off good info) I have a 55gal too. Big enough to hold them, small enough to maintain.

Chong

[Anna Piranha]

I understand why barebottom is best. Still, I have gravel. Can gravel also be a host for biological filter? If you just yank it out of the tank could you be in for an upset?

Thanks,
Anna

p.s. I have perfectly good biological filtration through my ceramic media in my AquaClear.

Remove the gravel. You will have no problems... maybe even less ;) Might want to add a sponge or extra filter for back up.

Mike

Mike,
Dang good advice.

Miles :)