Am I ready for next time

[grrrr8guy]

Hi Folks


Ok first off let me apologize for the multi posts, What am I new lol yes I am !! lol sorry

I just want to with a fresh thread from here and stick with it through the next few spawns and see what happens.

I have done some intense reading here and in the water quality room.

I now have a conductivity meter , bought an ro unit and will have my first 22 gallons of 86 degree 104 m.s (conductivity water). I have the parents in a 25 gallon tank and plan to change about 5 gallons of it a day. presently the parent tank is 324 m.s (conductivity). My tap water was 262 m.s

parents are still cleaning the pot since they spawned last thursday ( the eggs were toast) fungused then eaten by sat afternoon I think.

I dont expect to have the water softened enough by the next spawn but does it sound like im heading down the right path?

Im not sure what the p.h is but around here its generally around 7.4. out of the tap.

I will check that later its been a long day rigging up pump and air downstairs to the ro bucket.

This morning I speant a couple hours measuring capacity and figuring how much ro water to use and put a tape to mark the spot to pump ro water to and then and top with tap.

and oh yes I put conditioner the alovera kind that also treats chlorine and chlorimine.


grrr8guy

[larry lob]

Hi Grrr8,

Firstly i was just suggesting and am glad you took it the right way.

When you move pair it sometimes takes them time to resettle.

as to your conditions they sound fine, i would be tempted to change more that 1/5 of the water a day but if you monitor the nitrates you might be ok. you are on the right path.

Is that conditioner called stress coat? if it is then your ok i have found that to be great stuff.

HTH good luck

Larry

[grrrr8guy]

Thanks for responding Larry

Water conditioner!

It is from big als here in canada (aquarium services) it is there name brand and yes it is virtually the same thing as stress coat.

I have another problem though. my ro water comes out 7 m.s and all I did yesterday was pump it upstairs to my waterchange bucket where Im mixing it with tap water and heating it. it jumped 20 points to 127 m.s. immediately after pumping it.

I reconfirmed the 7 downstairs then the 127 upstairs. so now I figure its the slime residue that builds up on the bucket from water conditioner (i used to use a different brand) before the Big Al stuff.

So I drained off some water and pumped some more up and got a reading of 104 ms.

Last night I Checked it and it had risen from 68 to 78 degrees fer and it was reading 107 I dont know if the rise in temp effects the reading or not.

then I put in the water conditioner , it immediately rose to 127 a 20 point jump.


went to bed and tested it this morning and like I said I had a reading of 170 at about 78 deg.

now I tested it at 84 degrees and it is 178 ms.

Gees it comes out of the tap at 262 lol.

Now what ? Drain more and bump it down with more ro?

I have a feeling I could have filled the bucket with strait ro and been better off or heated the water downstairs and pump it right to the tak and take readings?

grrr8guy

[grrrr8guy]

here is an add on, I tested the pH from the tap and it is 7.5 , I tested it from the water change bucket I use for angels 24 hours old and it is 7.5 as well. I checked the 25 gallon tank the parents are in and it lookes somewhere between 7.5 and 8. my kit only gives 05 increments.

I thing Im going to give them a water change with the 170 ms (conductivity) water , then I will use strait ro to top the water change bucket back up and see how that works.

grrr8guy

[larry lob]

Hi Grr8,

24 hour readings are normaly the correct stable reading.
I suggest leaving straight ro for 24 hours getting a reading then using maybe 1/4 tap to give back some minerals and you should find it ok, don't worry about P.H.
I use straight ro for them to breed and then mix 50/50.
like i have said to others, the main thing is CONSISTANCY, the less you mess with water the more consistant it is.
All i do is drop the hardness for breeding then i don't worry about it.

HTH

Larry

[grrrr8guy]

Thanks Larry

I made a water change of 5 gallons in the 25 gallon parent tank yesterday then topped up the ro/tap bucket with ro water from the basement.


The m.s reading before the change in the parent tank was 325. After the water change the m.s was 280 in the parent tank


This morning (tuesday) the reading in the parent tank was 280 m.s so it held and the ro/tap bucket is 127 m.s.


I will try your suggestion larry maybe it will save me heating the ro water downstairs because when I pump the water up to the holding tank upstairs where it is mixed with tap the ro water is so cold it takes the better part of a day to warm it up. (even though I only topped up 5 gallons out of 23 gallons at 86 degrees in the bucket.


I am now shooting for 10 gallons a day water change or more now as I find I need to syphon off at least twice a day to remove debris. maybe even 3 times ill see.


Ive been told discus can handle the water softening quickly that its when you harden it you have to go slowly , is this true?


Does anyone know how quickly it is safe to soften it down to 100 m.s.

Im asking because they should try to put eggs down again between now and monday.

grrr8guy

[larry lob]

Hi,

I would say a 5% water change every 4 hours would be safe to bring down the hardness. 3 or 4 changes and you should find the conductivity low enough for breeding then the drops will not be as hard there after.
thats jmo.

Larry

[grrrr8guy]

By the time I read this I had already did a 50 percent water change it just worked out that way because last night I syphoned 25% but left the level down because the ro/tap bucket was still too high in m.s and I wanted to bring the reading down.

I brought the reading down but then it took til this morning to warm it and I needed another water change so I did it voila 50 % .

The m.s has dropped from 324 on sun to 220 right now and i need to syphon some more debris now , the fish seem happy with fully erect fins good colour and still looking like they are getting into the pre spawning rituals you see a couple days prior to spawning.

Im going to change 25 % tonight the tank is 220 m.s and the change bucket is 120 ms so I think might be ok

grrr8guy

[grrrr8guy]

I just did the water change and the tank came down from 220 m.s to 206 m.s


I had to fill the water change bucket with ro as it was now 3/4 empty and I need to warm enough water for tomorrow.

I pumped up strait ro water of m.s 7 and after mixing with the 1/3 of water of ms 120 the 23 gallon container is now an ms of only 27.

I am going to to a water change tomorrow of 25% with the 27 ms water into the 206 parent tank.


does this sound scary to anyone?

P.s. Larry I am reading and value your responses although have done things a bit differently.

grrr8guy

[larry lob]

Hi Grrr8,

That should give you an m.s of arround 179 when settled.

you should be ok but i personaly would 2 stage the refill half then the other half 30 minutes later. HTH
the beuty of oppinions are that you can take what ever part of them you like and merge it with what your doing or not take it at all. what suit one doesn't suit another, your ok mate.

Larry

[grrrr8guy]

Thanks larry

my female scratched herself on the power filter stem but looks ok she has a couple straight white lines (scales rubbed off on one side about an inch long. she dosn't seem to be bothered by it though.

I was going to put maroxy in but it would just drive the ms back up. I think she will be ok. Figures I wanted to take the sponge off for better removal until they put eggs down but no such luck.


Its 6:30 am here in ontario canada , I have to wait a few hours to change some more water as it has only warmed up to 80 so far.

Maybe ill run two heaters in that bucket.

grrr8guy

[larry lob]

80? That is sure to get them to shake rattle and roll !
Do it and watch them shag all night.

[grrrr8guy]

But the tank is 87 wont they get ich? also the female scraped herself and is missing some scales now.

She did it on the filter stem (usually I have foam on the stem but in my brilliant wisdom decided to let everything go into the filter) rather than the pre sponge untill they put eggs down.

I put some maroxy in to be on the safe side but now i'm wondering if I get fry and they try to feed on her if that will be a problem.

She is eating and have grrr8 colour but now i'm wondering if I should let her heal up that small wound first.


grrr8guy

[larry lob]

Hi,

87 could cilt the males milt as he fertalises, most here seem to agree 82 - 84 are best temps for good fertalisation.

you could just go with the flow and let them have the time they want to heal.
don't quote me because i don't use it but in a thread somewhere i recall someone like cary say maroxy doesn't affect the slime coat. have a look around.

Larry

[grrrr8guy]

Maybe Ill drop the temp down to 84, geez thats what it was before I put the discus in when it was an angel tank as all my tanks were 84.

I asked the question about scales in the general section as well and between there and here nobody really feels its going to be an issue.


im going to do a water change now I had a nap lol im on holidays til sunday then its back to work and will be harder to be on here other than to read a post or two herew and there as I work 12 hour shifts and doing the fish thing between the angels and discus takes most of my free time on work days.

grrr8guy

[grrrr8guy]

Just an add on but I managed to get a good look with my big magnafying glass and there are no gouges in her looks like she just rubbed the colour off lol.


grrr8guy

[grrrr8guy]

Ok I just did the next water change the temp was 85 in the wc bucket and 86 in the tank.

the conductivity in the water change bucket was 34 m.s. and 206 m.s in the tank. I changed 5 gallons.

The m.s in the parent tank came down to 159 from 206 more of a drop than I was expecting but the fish seem very happy.

Im going to feed them again now and perhaps a small water change before bed , a couple gallons just to remove any excretion and food remnants.

grrr8guy

[grrrr8guy]

Well I did the water change 5 gallons on the 25 gallon tank.

Conductivity was 32 in the water change bucket and 206 in the parent tank.

After the water change the conductivity in the tank is 159 but dam it they are already intensly cleaning the pot and she is making her practice runs.

This is 6 days after they started putting down eggs the last time (last thurs).

Maybe with some luck Ill get the conductivity down on time and I might get some fry.

Even if I get live wigglers on this round I will consider it a success and hope they develope some parenting skills.

grrr8guy

[larry lob]

Hi grrr8,

thats the way it should be, make sure your pair ate true and then give them all the time they need to get better at it and in my case let me get better too.

good luck.
Larry

[grrrr8guy]

Well they put the eggs down, all of about ten of em lol.

I think she was eating them as she was going along although I dont think she put many down.

It was only six days exactly from the last time she put them down.

Im wondering if all the water softening started them off a bit early and not enough eggs?

Some got eaten though thats for sure , I checked from time to time .


grrr8guy

[grrrr8guy]

ok heres a question


If we want a conductivity off 100 or less for fry and 200 for healthy discus then how is everyone balancing that?


Run with 200 for a few days then take 2 or 3 days to bring it down?


Also do people tend to keep breeders in a breeding tank thier whole breeding life? say from 1 1/2 years old til they retire to a green pature tank lol.


grrr8guy

[larry lob]

Good morning,

As to what most people i don't know but i don't think it makes much difrence to the parents as long as drastic changes are not made. i tend to drop my hardness for the spawn from fertalization to free swimmers the slowly bring it back up till the next time.

Genral consesus is that pairs need a rest now and then and you will know when that is. move them to another tank till they show again.

Larry

[grrrr8guy]

Thanks Larry

what about the yo yo effect you might get going from 200 to 100 when you are trying to establish a pair?

5 or 6 spawns back and forth , and no fry to raise yet as the parents are being developed.

The only reason I asked is because I read somewhere that for growing out you need higher conductivity so assumed the parents needed it most of the time for good health.

Some how I was imagining in the wild a periods of time perhaps where the water is softer than usual inducing spawning and ensuring the eggs hatch (just a guess) then although still soft the water climbing little higher in ms for them most of the time (coutesy of mother nature) ?

grrr8guy