Why am I losing babies?

[saints27]

I am losing babies at a rate of about 5 per day and I cant work out why.
No ammonia ,no nitrire or nitrate ,100% w/c per day.
It is only this particular batch they are about 2 1/2 months old.
Ive changed tanks and split them in to 2 seperate tanks still the same .
All the other babies from different parents are doing fine eating the same things and getting the same water.
They have been treated for flukes.
Is there something that im missing?

Jamie

[Rod Coleman]

Hi Jamie,

If they had flukes, chances are they have been reinfected from eggs in the tank, the filter etc.

Do you have access to a microscope?

Regards

Rod

[saints27]

Rod
I dont know if they did have flukes but I treated them for it twice any way.
As for the Microscope ill grab one
Jamie

[John_Nicholson]

Have you ever raise fry from this pair before?

Flukes are not killing you fry. If you are changing 100% of your water a day even if they had flukes they would be fine.

-john

[saints27]

John
This is the first time for this pair.
Over 220 fry there are about 80 left
Jamie

[John_Nicholson]

Before dieing do they show any sighs of being sick?

-john

[saints27]

John
they dont show any real signs ,I walk away for an hour or so and come back and one is dead it just happens like that.
At first it was just the smaller ones but now the larger ones are going as well.

Jamie

[John_Nicholson]

I would treat it as if it was a bacteria type of infection. I would hit them with formadahyde first. Wish that I could be more help.

-john

[brewmaster15]

Jamie,
I'm with John,
at 2 -3 months olds flukes wouldn't be killing them like that and if it was flukes you'd be seeing a lot of flashing and scratching/

Hows the breathing, and are they dark? are they active or do they hang around at the heater?

do they eat fine?

have you ever had a probelm with hexamita with the parents?

-al

I agree,
with Brew + John,
Sounds like a organism problem to me!


I would remove them from the tank they are in to a new one
asap! I would also treat with blue + salt!

HTH
TakeCare
Cary

[saints27]

I removed them from there tank last week and put them into a new tank still same results.
I treated for flukes again and for the first time i didnt lose any over night (2 nights ago) this morning there were another two dead .
Parents are in fine health .
Babies once they are dead seem to turn black and white ,white faces black bodies.
They swim around all levels of the tank and seem to eat fine.
Its got me stuffed !!!
Jamie

[brewmaster15]

Jamie,
when you treat for flukes what are you using?

also... back to the parents... have you ever had a Hexamita problem with them? Hexamita will do what you are seeing to fry. Not saying thats what it is, but if you treat with something like formalin, and are still losing fry I woudl try Metronidazole in case they picked up Hex from the parents and the parasite has reached numbers by now that are killing your fry. The smaller fry would die first, then the larger stronger fry.

Sorry to not be of more help here,
al

I agree that Hex will affect the week/small fry first.

If they are 2 1/2 months old they should be at least 2-2.5" If they are eating I don't think you would be loosing 5 per day from hex. If they had hex one by one they would quit eating begin to pass white feces, bloat and start hanging out in the back or corners of the tank.

Its odd that none of your other fish have problems... and these guys are giving no symptoms. What even has me more puzzled is that fact that you moved them moved them and lost none for 2 days. You would think that fish that were week and sick would be affected by the stress from the move to a new tank.

Internal Bacteria or Protozoan problem?

I'd try lots of salt, blue and heat. Pass on the food for a day or so.

Mike

[April]

how about.....by doing your 100 percent wc...are you getting gas bubbles....or chlorine? you do store right?
cause i lost mine..and i think it was off gasing or chlorine. they would have a fit....go dark....and then drop dead on the spot. maybe cut back the water changes and see how it goes?
ok..not that im that experienced. but if all look well..you walk away and come back to more dead....thats what mine would do. mine started when i started doing bigger changes. but mine were younger.

[Jason]

good point April!

Jamie If they are dead with fins erect, mouths and gills open, and still colour on them (for fry) after a w/c you could be choking them with chlorine and or c02!

Good point!


PH Shock in Discus!
They will all hover just below the water surface rocking back and forth. they will be clamped and breathing hard. Also you will notice fin damage as the areas turn white near the edges IME.


CHLORINE poison in Discus!
Will cause them to slowly float towards the bottom. Their breathing will slowly come to a stop with mad dash like swims every now and then when bothered. The Discus will also start to show dark areas on the body right before Death without any clamping IME.


I would also like to add that not all discus in the tank are all affected at once.

HTH
TakeCare,
Cary Gld!

[brewmaster15]

Jamie,
you said you haven't had this probelm with any other pairs and their fry right? Have you treated the water changes the same in all those tanks?

Are you sure that nothing has changed in your water? Cary, jason and april bring up some good possibilities, expecially if anything is different in how you are treating the water in this fry tank, compared to the other fry tanks.


-al

[saints27]

ok guys here we go
There are 3 tanks with fry in at the moment.All are roughly the same age (only 4 days between the 3 tanks)
all 3 tanks recieve the same water frrom the same source every day .Ph is the same going into all 3 tanks same as temp.
Brew when I treated for flukes I used Paracide, as for the parents having Hex ,not as long as Ive had them and thats about 4 months now.
I tried salt and still kept on losing fry,I will try cutting back the amount of w/c and see how that goes.

Is it possible that they are just a weak strain???
Male is SS and female is a Red rose.
thanks for your help guys its much appreciated.

Jamie

[Jason]

what are the ingredience in "paracide" jamie?

[April]

maybe they are just affected more. you can have a tank full of fish and only one will get affected by something that the others dont.
i still think its worth trying small water changes for a day or two. ryan was having alot of problems..and he cut right back on water changes and cured. his is well water..and he thought the bacteria count is high.
dont forget you guys all of a sudden had a ton of rain...and things even in the water source could have changed? not ph or stuff..but bacteria levels..or whatever.
are they still dying Jamie?

[saints27]

I hit them with blue yesterday and decreased the w/c to 20% and havent lost any so far so I will see how it goes.
Thanks again ,I will keep you informed

Jamie

[April]

sounds good jamie. hope thats the end of it. for sure let us know.

[kelvintanpk]

Hi

"Chlorine" is the curlpit, my Rose Red Discus fries fell from 120 to 30 pieces
now. I was told by a world known breeder that the "chlorine" is usually
the cause. I did what was told to add more anti-chlorine when water
change, and now the fries are back to health now. Eating brine shrimp
and frozen blood worm greedily.

[saints27]

Thanks Ive cut back the amount of w/c but im still losing at least 1 per day .I will try a bit of chlorine remover and see how it goes

thanks again

Jamie