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Daniel_SR
02-14-2003, 02:08 PM
Hi everyone! I was wondering if itīs really necessary to cycle a bare bottom tank. If itīs, for how long? A whole month? Isnīt only the filter thatīs going to be cycled? And what about maintenance. If we have a bare bottom tank, the only thing the bacterial colony has to get fixed is the filter, right? So when comes the time to clean it up, what happens to that colony? Will we always be cycling our tanks? I'm kinda confused as you may see!

Thanks for the answers!

Daniel

Ralph
02-14-2003, 05:00 PM
Hi again Daniel,
The filter is a condensed bacteria colony, where many nitrifying bacteria live and transform ammonia and nitrite into the less toxic nitrate. You are not really cycling the tank, you are giving the good bacteria time to multiply and colonize the filter. The bacteria live on every surface of the tank but it is the filter that allows you to fully stock your tank.
I bought a new tank yesterday but I don't need to cycle it because I have a cycled filter from an existing tank to put on my new tank.
There are some posts in Water Works that explain cycling, basically it is providing ammonia from fish or store-bought ammonia for the bacteria to "eat" and then giving them time to multiply (usually 3 to 6 weeks).
Your question about cleaning the filter is a good one because that is probably one of the more common mistakes of new fish keepers, they accidently kill the bacteria colony when they clean the filter and then their fish have problems in a couple days (fin rot, not eating, and even death). The filters are cleaned with nonchlorinated water at the same temp as the aquarium. Most use the aquarium water to clean the filter. And if you have to replace the filter for any reason, just replace part of it at a time. For example, replace the bag and not the contents, or vice versa.
Ask more questions if this didn't make sense.

ronrca
02-14-2003, 06:39 PM
:thumbsup: Ralph!
No underestimating 'cleaning the filter' problem! In all my filters I use bio spheres/cubes/balls whatever they are called. Plus, I also use foam on the outputs/inputs of the filter. This way I can clean the foam without disturbing the bacteria. The bio balls I never touch, only the foam. ;)

Carol_Roberts
02-14-2003, 06:53 PM
Ralph has given you some good information.

You are correct - the filter is what needs to be cycled.

I wipe down the inside of the tank and bottom about once a week.

I rinse the filter media in a bucket of used aquarium water when needed - say every 4 to 6 weeks with a good prefilter sponge on the intake tube.

Daniel_SR
02-14-2003, 07:55 PM
Hi there Ralph, thanks again for your time and knowledge! With my Fluval, i do just like ronrca said, i clean just some filtering elements, and let others for some other time, or just donīt clean at all some of them. I was really confused about that simple sponge filter used in bare bottom tanks, īcause or you clean it all, or you donīt. But just as you said, we must use nonchlorinated water , or even better, the water right from the tank itself.

But letīs go a little further now, and suppose we donīt have a bare bottom anymore, but a nice gravel bottom. In that case, the thank does need cycling, doesnīt it? Or still just the filter? ???

Thanks for your answers!

Daniel

Ralph
02-14-2003, 08:20 PM
Hi Daniel,
Boas perguntas.
It's still the filter that is cycled. The gravel will provide more surface areas for bacteria colonization but the filter is the primary area for processing the ammonia and nitrite. A planted tank is a little different. The plants actually use the nitrogen in the ammonia, making it nontoxic. But the number of plants needed to process the wastes from one fish is sizable. Before filters were invented, aquariums had many plants for just a few fish. For the most part, people just cycle their filters in a planted tank the same way that they would for a tank with no gravel.
Great questions.

Daniel_SR
02-14-2003, 08:26 PM
Hi Ralph!
Boas respostas! ;D ;D ;D

See you! ;)

Daniel

marcw
03-30-2004, 07:10 PM
And just what does a colony of bacteria look like? It's the slimy stuff, right? And a tank is considered cycled when both the Ammonia and Nitrite levels are 0? And then it's safe to add the fish? Am I understanding this correctly? Argh! So, many questions!

I found this site about a week too late. I've just set up my first discus tank, and now realise there's a couple of things I should have done a bit differently :) Don't think the cycling was one of 'em, though.

And Ralph! A man after my own heart! Punk's not dead at all!! ;D

Carol_Roberts
03-30-2004, 09:10 PM
Your tank is cycled when you start showing nitrAte.

NitrIte and ammonia should be zero in a fully cycled tank, but nitrIte can be zero in an uncycled tank too. Ammonia will show no matter what, but the nitrIte will not begin to show until the good bacteria grow enough to convert the ammonia to nitrIte.

KD
03-31-2004, 05:51 PM
My tank just started to show nitrites after 4 weeks. Be patient and it will eventually get to that point just sit back and forget about the tank for awhile - Do keep an eye on the ammonia levels you want them to stay before you start showing nitrites (start testing for nitrites after a couple of weeks or so and like magic they start showing). There are a few good articles on this site about fishless cycle. I started with the filtration air stone and heaters in place and added 5 PPM ammonia (Clear household ammonia NOT Sudsy or Colored). My fish are on order and I can't wait to get them next week.
GOOD LUCK!!

marcw
04-04-2004, 07:35 AM
Your tank is cycled when you start showing nitrAte.

NitrIte and ammonia should be zero in a fully cycled tank, but nitrIte can be zero in an uncycled tank too. Ammonia will show no matter what, but the nitrIte will not begin to show until the good bacteria grow enough to convert the ammonia to nitrIte.

OK - my tests are showing Ammonia at 1ppm, NitrIte at 0, and NitrAte at 10ppm. I'm getting mixed messages here - the appearance of NitrAte seems to indicate the tank is cycled, but Ammonia isn't 0. What's the answer? Wait a bit longer, I assume, 'til Ammonia is 0?

Keystonediscus
04-04-2004, 01:14 PM
Carol is right when she stated a fully cycled tank should show 0 ppm for both ammonia and nitrite and you are showing nitrates. if you have recently added fish the ammonia levels and nitrite may cycle again as the new amounts of waist will cause a new growth of bacteria as they reestablish a balance in the tank environment. this is why its recomended to purchase a few fish at a time as you populate your tank and monitor your perameters regularly during this time. Each time you add more fish your tank will cycle to regain its balance it will not be as drastic a change as your first cycleing but you will be able to see it in your water tests.

marcw
04-05-2004, 08:15 AM
Ah yes - that makes sense. I HAVE recently added fish (and taken them out again, and put some more back in....) so the balance is constantly being changed.

I'll keep on testing 'til I get 0 for Ammonia before adding the discus. But how about Nitrate? Is 10ppm a good figure? Can you have too much nitrate in there?

Carol_Roberts
04-05-2004, 11:53 AM
NitrAte is easily removed with water changes. Mine is always below 5

marcw
04-06-2004, 12:19 AM
Great! 0 Ammonia, 0 NitrIte, and <5 shall be my target. :)

And after I add fish, Ammonia's going to rise again, isn't it? (Is that the Ammonia spike?). If so, how do you deal with that? (I'm sure that's been asked a million times before and I SHOULD go and do a search on it, shouldn't I?)

If Ammonia is the by-product of waste, and NitrIte the by-product of Ammonia. why aren't THEY also removed easily by water changes? Would have thought they'd be dilluted like NitrAte obviously is.

Carol_Roberts
04-06-2004, 01:17 AM
Actually, extra water changes is exactly what I recommend to reduce ammonia until the filters catch up to the bigger fish load ;D

marcw
04-06-2004, 08:32 AM
Yay! Got it all sorted out now! ;D Thanks!

One last question while I've got you here :) What size barrel would you suggest I use for aging alongside my 37 1/2 gallon tank?

ronrca
04-06-2004, 10:21 AM
From my experience, you can never have enough aged storage water! LOL! However, a good guideline if you could call it that would be using a storage tank large enough to be able to do at least 75%+ water change! I prefer to use 100% thus if I had a 30G tank, I would have a 30G storage container! ;)

Many times one does not have enough room to fit a storage container that big. If this be the case, then try to fit the largest container possible in.

marcw
04-07-2004, 06:11 PM
Hey - thanks for all the info! It's all very helpful, but making me realise I'm not quite set up properly for discus yet. Nearly there, though. :D

And for the budget conscious - what's the minimum chemical 'tool-kit' I can get away with? What test kits should I have, and what other bottles of medicines, fix-ups and other stuff should I have ready to use? I've already got a Ph test kit, and get the discus dealer to do Ammonia, NitrIte and NitrAte tests for me - though it's about time I started doing those myself.

So, what do I 'need'??

Off I go to get myself a suitable water storage container........

Carol_Roberts
04-07-2004, 09:27 PM
Ammonia test kit. Clear ammonia for fishless cycle, epsom salt, regular salt, metronidazole, formalin, dechlor product if on city water.

marcw
04-08-2004, 07:22 AM
Thanks, Carol! I'm using Prime to dechlor the water, but I notice it also removes Ammonia. Won't the poor little bacteria starve to death without Ammonia to process?

And what do the other things in your list do, Carol?

Carol_Roberts
04-08-2004, 12:22 PM
epsom salt, constipation
regular salt, stress - minor skin abrasions - fungus
metronidazole, intestinal flagellates
formalin, exterior parasites and bacteria

Prime is a good product to use. Bacteria won't starve to death.

zippy
02-27-2017, 04:46 PM
What the heck does.... &#039 mean ????

RogueDiscus
02-27-2017, 06:41 PM
Looking back, I think it's a glitch in translation from old forum software to new. Carol hasn't been on the forum in years, but many of her posts are still relevant. Replace the ' with a " ' " Bacteria won't starve to death.

zippy
02-27-2017, 07:12 PM
Thanks, I thought it was some kind of secret code :)