Newbie help... (kinda)

[DRRACING]

Let be start by saying that I have kept Discus (or they kept me) about 14 years ago with much success. Most of what I knew then I had forgotten and alot of the the suggestions for keeping Discus have changed or evolved since then. I sold all of my wonderful Discus due to being newly married, getting ready to start a family and starting a new business. Now my children are fairly self sufficient and the business is going strong, my wife has urged me to re-kindle my love for Discus.

My plan is to start with 4 BB tanks, approx. 80gal each with 10 or 12 of the same strains in each and then cull and eventually move the best to one large show tank.

My questions are:
1) Is there a preference to the tank deminsions (I will be
building these myself so size is flexable), I seem to
remember, taller is better.

2) Is 80gal adequate for 10 to 12 2-3" fish?

3) How much heating wattage will I need for an 80gal tank?

4) What type of filtration do you reccomend and what size for
80gal tank?

5) I plan on purchasing a R/O system, can someone steer me
in the right direction on R/O systems? (I assume I will
need a large system with 4 80gal tanks and then adding
a show tank later at somewhere around 180 gal.)

6) What should I add to the R/O water.

7) How often should I do water changes? ( I used to do 50%
every other day)

I have read many of the threads here the last few days and have learned/remebered alot. Thanks to all of you that have posted and shared on your experiance. If you have any other hints or suggestions, please share with me.

Sorry for the long post but I want do do this right from the start and want to minimize my learning curve as much as possible.

FYI: The Discus I kept many years ago were all wild strains and I think most were wild caught of varying sizes. I started with 6 and lost only one in just over a year of keeping them.

Thanks in advance for any pointers or advice,

Bob

[RAWesolowski]

Bob,

I admire your enthusiasm and I wish that I had your space! I would love to have 4 80 gallon tanks for the hobby. Anyhow, I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. I think that many members will fine tune my suggestions.

1. No preference as to dimensions, just remember that you have to clean the tanks. You don't want to wear a swimming suit just to scrape algae. I would think that you want the depth to be less than the length of your arm.

2. Generally accepted wisdom is one adult fish per 10 gallons of water. If you assume that an adult is at least 6 inches, you can easily accomodate up to 16 2" to 3" fish in an 80 gallon tank.

3. I like to think in terms of watts per gallon witha rule of thumb of 5 watts per gallon. On that assumption, you will need about 400 watts for your 80 gallon tanks. However, I would set two 200 watt heaters in your tank not one large heater. The thought is that if one unit fails, the other unit will maintain the aquarium until you replace it.

4. Many of the experienced people on the board prefer sponge filters augmented by Aquaclear units. In any case, think over-filtration. The greater the water changeover, the better your water quality.

5. I would defer to Randy Bogath on RO systems. Randy is a moderator on the water board. The assumption will be that you want to change at least 50% of your water per day. Depending on your water parameters, you will want to mix RO with your tap water in the water changes. Straight RO, even with additives, is not generally recommended on the board.

6. See 5 but think in terms of your water parameters. That is, general hardness, carbonate hardness and pH. Although pH has long been touted as the definitive parameter, many of us have found that conductivity is a better tool when seeking to breed discus. Many breeders drop conductivity to 30 microsiemens but find that fish grow out better in significantly higher conductivity ranges.

7. Many breeders change 100% of their water per day, many hobbyists are lucky to change 100% of their water in a week. Rule of thumb is 50% per day. For your aquariums, you may want an auto fill and drain system to do 50% per day. Think overflow tanks but remember you still will have to vacuum and srape.

Mmmm, maybe I don't want 4 80 gallon tanks... well I do, but the thought of all those water changes and scraping...

Good luck, I would love to see the units when you put them together.

[Ryan]

Bob,

I think my main question to you is: what are your current water parameters for aged tap water? Meaning, after your water has aerated for 24 hours once it comes out of the tap, what do you get for pH/hardness readings?

While RO was suggested for years as the only way to keep discus, that has been proven inaccurate. Many of us raise out young discus in pure tap water, only switching to RO for breeding. My pH is 7.6 - 7.8 and my conductivity is about 500 microsiemens. The fish are fine. I know that Carol Roberts (a moderator here) is raising out babies in her well water, too, and they are growing like weeds.

You may want to consider RO if you are ready to breed your discus, or if the parameters of your tap water are ridiculous -- but you may find that all you have to do is age your tap water to stabilize your pH and treat for chlorine/chloramine, and you're set to go.

Ryan

[RandalB]

Bob,
Ryan beat me to it about the RO water. More than likely your water is just fine for growing young discus. My rule of thumb is: If you can drink it your fish will be fine in it. Feel free to post your water conditions if you know them to verify, but I have yet to come across anyone with water Discus could'nt live in.

When you have a couple of pairs (or just one!) ready to go that's another story.

Feel free to ask if you have RO questions, though, I'll be happy to help you out.

RandalB

[Richman]

Welcome back to the hobby.

Very good information posted above. If you are planning on building the tanks yourself, I'm sure you must have a source of cheap glass. Otherwise, it will be cheaper to buy ready made tanks. I would recommend that you build them longer or deeper from front to back and not taller. The livestock load is determined by the ability of the water to absorb oxygen and the greater the surface area, the greater the oxygen mixture. Taller is harder to clean. Also requires greater pressure to aereate. And if you go much over 20 inches, it will require that you build out of thicker glass to acommodate the pressure. Thicker glass is much more expensive.
Sounds like you have some experience and are serious about this. Welcome, and good luck.

[DRRACING]

Thank you guys for responding so quickly...

If I remember corectly, the only thing I used to test in the water was ph, not sure...

As for what my water is like here, I have not tested it yet. Is there an all inclusive test kit that I can buy that will test everything I need to test for?

I was planning to build my tanks from acrylic, is glass preferable?

Thanks again,
Bob

[DRRACING]

Also, what size Aquaclear would I need for an 80gal or would I be better with multiple smaller ones?

Does anyone have pics or a scetch of their auto fill/drain systems to give me an idea of what I need to do?

Thanks,
Bob

[Richman]

You can get test kits to test kh, gh, ph, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, all at any online pet supplier. Probably can get them at your local lfs, but will be cheaper online. Try BigAls.com or Petwarehouse.com. I would put an AC500 on an 80 gallon along with 2 hydrosponge filters. The Emperor 400 is also a great filter. I have no use for small filters. I also keep 2 HOB filters on a tank that large. Just keeps a filter biologically active in case I need to set up another tank quickly. Keeps you from having to mess with the lengthy cycling procedure.
Which is best---glass or acrylic? The cheapest one you can build IMO. You know your ability and what materials you have access to. That is an individual thing. I built several tanks about 15 years ago, including a few large ones. I had a cheap glass source. The price of glass nowadays makes it cost prohibitive if you have to buy the stuff retail. Cheaper to buy ready made tanks. Only you know your sources, materials, or ability to do the job. Do your research on each and make your own decision.
I don't have an auto drain and fill system. Some others do and I know info exists somewhere on the forum. HTH

[dm]

Welcome to the board Bob. sounds like you got a lot of good advice already. How about some pics when you get everything set up?

[DRRACING]

I think I will take pictures as I build, starting with the tanks and all the way thru to the finished setup. I will be glad to post them if anyone has an interest..

Thanks for all of the help so far...
Bob

[Don_Lee]

Welcome Bob, great to have you here! The one thing I would add to the already great advice you have received is you may want to consider a wet/dry filter. I have one on my 180 gallon show tank and love it. Once they are set up they do a wonderful job and are easily maintained. Check out the DIY section for more information about fish room type stuff.

Don ;D

[DRRACING]

Thanks Don,

I had thought about a wet/dry but had seen no mention of any in the threads I had read so far, I thought maybe they were not suitable.

Would love to see pics of your setup if you have any.

Thanks again,
Bob

[Don_Lee]

Sorry Bob, no pics yet....I have been saying that for so long I may start to be banned soon, lol.
I bought my wet/dry from www.petsolutions.com. I have the AMiracle M400, with a Mag 1200 GPH pump. I hard plumbed it about 6 months ago, and it is working out great. I think that power filters and sponge filters are more convenient if you have lots of tanks, but if you are thinking of one big tank, cannot beat the wet/dry in overall performance IMO.

Don ;D