View Full Version : the discus has taken a step backwards?

02-25-2003, 12:48 AM
only up until about about 2 months ago - i totally put the discus hobby on the back burner.

being out of the hobby for about 7 or 8 years, due to a very demanding job, wife, kids, trying to get ahead etc., i left this hobby when only a few strains (true breeding) existed. i hadn't picked up a TFH or FAMA mag in a long time. my last discus annual is dated 1991.

cobalts, red turks, brilliant turks, blue turks, royal blues, wilds - that was about all that was available. of course each breeder had his own version of the aforementioned fish - but for the most part that was it.

pigeon bloods and blue diamonds were just breaking out onto the scene. i loved the blue diamonds, but wasn't to crazy about the pigeon bloods.

tonight i discovered the photo section on this site and could not believe what i was seeing or reading. football shaped fish being complimented by other hobbiests. posters attaching well known breeders names to fish that they had crossed that look like next years NFL's stock of balls.

distorted mottled colors, ugly crosses due to the fact that they were probably the first pair that broke off in the group - crooked fright bars, big eyed juveniles and all the while other hobbiests showering these posters with high praises. never a comment or suggestion.

What has happened to this hobby? i know that if i was a breeder i would be totally pissed off to find my name attached to some of these creations.

the other day i got an apology from a breeder here that said: "my problem is not with you - but this site!" Now i know what he was talking about!

i never mention names - never!, but people we really need to take a hard look at our responsibility to these fish - not for our sake - but for the discus!

Flame away i don't care - ban me from the site thats fine! but if it helps slow down the demise of this great fish it's well worth it!


02-25-2003, 01:01 AM
Well Flogger, you do not mince words-so neither will I.
There are some "less than perfect" fish in the photo section, there are also some beauties. You are making a generalization that is not true nor fair. The photo gallery is not intended to be a contest. Believe it or not, there are a few people here who know discus a little bit, some who know quite a bit. It does noone any good to rip/judge every fish that is posted in the photo area. We have had several threads pointing out obvious flaws and good/bad points of discus. Click on the mission statement on this site, and you may better understand the purpose of the board.
Do you really think that banning you from this site will make one iota of difference in the quality of discus to come? I would say no. What might make a difference to the future quality of discus is all of the members here communicating and educating each other about the fish. Hopefully you will participate in a polite manner and be helpful, instead of another in the latest string of critical people who do nothing but criticize others fish/discus practices/opinions etc.


02-25-2003, 01:02 AM
Please be patient.
There are different knowledge level among membebers. e.g. I am still trying to keep them alive. Any live discus is a good one in my case.

I am sure you can make a lot of positive input and help to share your experience./ knowledge.

02-25-2003, 01:10 AM
I can not for the life of me understand why this fish can only be kept if it is a perfect specimen....
There isn't a perfect human out there, aside from myself and a few others....yet we let you live
I wish that I could start culling people.....then maybe I would not have to listen to this.....

02-25-2003, 01:11 AM
c'mon don,

i am being polite - i never mention names, although i should because that would be helpful criticism. if no one critiques how do people know thay are doing anything wrong?

for instance, wouldn't it make sense if people posted pics of a potential breeding pair etc. and asked the well informed breeders here (me not included!) what the spawn would look like? or is this just a crap shoot in the name of the fish?



02-25-2003, 01:17 AM

be very careful! those statements have undertones of Nazi germany! were you or any of your family members of the SS? you could hurt alot of people with comments like that!


02-25-2003, 01:23 AM
But that is the feeling you give when less than perfect fish are complimented and you object.....life is beautiful.....even in less than perfect specimens....some of us are in it just for the fun of it....not trying to create a world of The Perfect Fish

02-25-2003, 01:26 AM
Flogger-no hard feelings here! I figured since you could lay out your concerns directly, so could I. ;D
I think your idea of posting pics of possible breeding pairs would be interesting. Again, check out the site thoroughly and you will see that there are several areas where fish are critiqued openly.


02-25-2003, 01:29 AM
Enough is enough. Flogger, I would suggest that you read the "Discus Morality" post very thoroughly by daninthesand. Not everyone on this site is here for the same reason. There are breeders here, and serious hobbyists, and obsessed discus keepers -- they all strive for perfection -- large, beautiful, round fish.

However, other members could care less about perfection, and just want nice, healthy stock.

If a member here is proud to show off their pets to us, then we should be happy for them. When someone shows me a picture of their newborn baby I don't say, "God, his head looks like a football, I think you should cull that one and start over."

There are many helpful threads in the Beginners board that tell newcomers to the discus hobby what to look for and what to avoid. If people are interested they can learn from those posts. Also people that ask for opinions of their fish can surely benefit from what we tell them.

However, there are some people here who are proud of their discus, regardless of whether or not we think it's perfect or up-to-par. If a hobbyist is happy with their discus, that is all that matters.

Discus hobbyists tend to be an elitist group of people but I do not think it's fair to the casual hobbyist who just wants some nice fish for a nice tank.


02-25-2003, 01:45 AM
Some people see the cup as half empty and are only happy if they can find fault or point out flaws. Perhaps it makes them feel better about themselves.

Other people see the cup as half full and try to point out the nice things. They look for the good points in a picture to help newcomers see what is right about their discus.

The best teachers don't alienate their students by criticising their first efforts. They make learning fun. I've posted pictures of some of my first discus and pointed out flaws as a teaching aid. That way no one had to be embarrassed.

This is a hobby for most of us, not a job. There is no test to pass at the end. People come and go all the time on these forums. Those that are true diehards read all the threads, look at all the pictures and quickly learn what a good quality discus looks like. It's pretty easy to figure out.

In the mean time I'll be saying nice red eye, or lovely pattern on that pigeon or whatever. And I'll be answering all the questions I can - even if they are the same ones over and over, LOL

New posters are all excited about discus. They are the prettiest fish they've ever seen. They want to share their pictures with us. I know I did.

I figure my mission here is to help them learn how to keep discus to begin with, the rest will come on it's own.

02-25-2003, 01:53 AM
Hey Flogger,
If you do not like the site, beat it! I dont see anyone holding you down here. I, among many think this is a great site

Rob ;D

02-25-2003, 02:17 AM
You know this doesn't have anything to do with with:

Re:the discus has taken a step backwards?

But maybe this post from a while back fits in.



02-25-2003, 02:21 AM
flogger show us what've u got and what kinda quality discus u have..I would be very eager to give you my comments but I doubt you will even have the courage to show anything here other than running the mouth.

P.S Can someone show him the internet troll thread? or if ur not the intelligent kinda troll..this pic can explain a bit.

02-25-2003, 02:27 AM
Only 30 seconds ahead of you.
here it is again.



02-25-2003, 02:30 AM
rofl thanks john ;)

02-25-2003, 02:42 AM

i'll post pics of my RSG hybrids that i purchased recently from a breeder in california - thats no problem.

- hopefully i'll get one or two nice pairs that can represent this strain for further breeding. if not they'll go in a display tank - and i'll try again! no rush.

i've been out of the hobby for a few years so i'm just starting to build up some stock.

i'd like to concentrate on maybe two or three strains.


02-25-2003, 02:44 AM
now i need to figure out how to attach a pic.

be patient - i'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to computers - lol


02-25-2003, 02:57 AM
Don, Ryan & Carol have expressed my sentiments on the topic. AND they did it without being offensive. Opinions (especially on discus) are like...well, you know, everybody's got one!

I personally like the 'newer' strains moreso than the old standbys. A few of them came about by chance, a lurk, serendipity, etc. I'd venture to guess that some of the older strains flogger mentioned also were due to just dumb luck by a breeder who capitalized on it.

It's sort of like people's taste in cars. There are those who pine for the good ol' muscle cars of the '50s w/the aggressive look, roaring engines, etc. & others who prefer the sleeker, more aerodynamic, late model vehicles. Who is right/wrong? Neither...cause it's in the eye of the beholder.

02-25-2003, 09:24 AM
I would love to know who decided what is a perfect discus.....
I haven't seen god on this site yet..........

Round = 6' tall
Red eye = Blue eyes
Perfect lines = Blonde hair

Starting to sound like an Arian discus nation to me.........

02-25-2003, 12:55 PM
Hey, wait a minute. My ideal is blue eyes and dark brown hair. ;D
Aren't blondes the genetically weaker hair strain? Hence the dumb blond jokes?! Apologies to all you blondes out there! :)

02-25-2003, 01:18 PM
I never did really care for those dumb blonde jokes :o

02-25-2003, 01:30 PM
Flogger ... what is your point? ??? ??? ???

That breeders aren't selling quality discus? I think that if you research a bit, you'll find a much greater quantity of "quality" discus around. I don't have any statistics, but over the past 12 years, the number of breeders selling product which I would be happy with appears to have increased! There also is much more interest in Discus then in years past ... which means the number of novices and experts increases ... again, no empiracle evidence, just my interpretation.
That there is a lot of "less than perfect" discus around, and that newbies and novices are showing off their wares? I'm sure there are ... which in my mind is a good ... no, a great thing. It shows that people are proud of their accomplishments, even if they may not measure up to your standards. More and more people are getting involved, trying to breed, and enjoying the hobby. Many people do not have a "mission" to perfect the strain, develop pure varieties, or necessarily get back to nature. They enjoy what they have, and want to share the successes with the rest of the community. Are you concerned that discus strains and varieties are being corrupted by amatures and unscrupulous breeders who don't live to perfect the species? If so, then you are a discus biggot. I've had far too many internet arguments with inflexible people who feel discus MUST be kept by the perfectionist, demanding that keepers provide only PERFECT environments, and committed to breeding only perfect fish. If that's your bag, good for you. Just don't get on a soapbox and insist that all discus keepers need to be from this same cloth.

I don't think anyone on this board condones unscrupulous breeders or venders who misrepresent what the sell. But, in general, the folks on this site are, at the least, support the right for any hobbiest to keep and breed what ever fish they'd like ... for the most part.

If I'm off base with my interpretation of you post, my apologies. But if you are complaining about the successes of members of this community, even if they might not be up to your standards, you are way off base!

Jeff Richard

02-25-2003, 01:49 PM
Don said it very eloquently .
Floggger, there are a lot of people on this board that are not breeders or discus connoisseur's, and if they post a pic of a grade B or C fish and are proud of that fish, let them be.
Most of the breeders and avid hobbiest's on this board do not post sub par fish, they know better, and do not want to be torn apart. The cool thing about this board is it brings us all together where the newbies to advanced can come together to share and learn.
Im sure even a person like yourself could learn something from this board.


02-25-2003, 02:41 PM
I'm curious Flogger, do you keep other fish in your community tank? It seems people who keep discus along with other fish don't seem nearly as concerned about the quality of the other fish. Why isn't anyone scrutinizing for the perfect Gourami, Tetra or Cory? Let's just enjoy our fish.

02-25-2003, 05:10 PM
man, you people just don't get it!

my problem isn't with the serious breeders (full time or part time) here! most have very nice fish and know how to properly select and cross them out.

my problem is with the people who think they are serious breeders. the people who throw 8 different strains in a tank - not knowing squat about genetics, and letting them pair off indiscrimanately only to end up with pot luck.

it's a wonderful experience watching mama and papa taking care of 100 or so babies - but what happens when those sub-par fish grow up?

i'll tell you - the novelty wears off quick - the owner gets overwhelmed because he doesn't have the time, money or room to care of so many fish. Many die, and get flushed because of neglect. In order to get rid of some of his/her sub-par fish (ugly crosses) he starts attaching the name of the breeder who sold him the fish in the first place. i've seen this happen so many times - and man can i tell you some stories!

now the sucker who bought the fish (and i've been that sucker!) gets young discus and has no way of knowing what the fish are going to look like until they grow out - after about 6 months it's evident that the fish he bought are pretty much worthless for breeding purposes.

beginners beware: there is no easier fish to counterfeit than the baby discus!

what happens to all the fish that are spawned on this site? I hear about spawnings all the time - hundreds and hundreds of fry, but i never see anything for sale? where are all these fish going? i'll tell you where?

Now not every discus needs to be perfect. and just because two "perfect" fish are bred, doesn't mean that all the offspring will be perfect. nothing is perfect!

as hobbiests who love this fish we have a responsibility here!

only the best possible fish with the best color, best shape (especially shape) and health should be allowed to reproduce. it takes alot of time, money and experience to go through this process.

lets make it our ultimate goal to preserve the integrity of this great fish for future generations to enjoy! if not buy goldfish!


02-25-2003, 05:32 PM
Lighten up!


02-25-2003, 05:56 PM

it is that very lax attitude (lighten up!) that will eventually relegate the discus to that of the goldfish!


02-25-2003, 06:10 PM
This sounds like the CBW debate. You're speaking of opinions as if they were facts. Who are you to tell me which fish I should breed and which I shouldn't? Why is your opinion of what is a good pair for breeding important to anyone but you? How do you define a serious breeder and someone who just thinks they are a serious breeder? And why would anyone care whether you deem them a serious breeder? So far, I've seen nothing come from you that would make me consider you a serious poster. You hide your true identity behind an alias and you criticize others. Who are you? You aren't obligated to tell us but your credibility suffers by hiding. Mind you, your credibility suffers by posting too so go to it. I don't necessarily disagree with everything you've posted, I just find you have trouble distinguishing between your opinions and facts.

02-25-2003, 06:19 PM

go take a look at some of those photos in the photo section on this board. i'm sure you'd just love to have some of those "absolute beauties" swimming around in your tank/tanks.

by the way what is it you want to know about me ;)

02-25-2003, 07:35 PM
go take a look at some of those photos in the photo section on this board. i'm sure you'd just love to have some of those "absolute beauties" swimming around in your tank/tanks.

That is the whole point. Dave might not think that some of those fish are up to quality, and you might not think that they are, but the owner might. Some people aren't striving for perfection, some people just want to have pets.

The discus hobby, and fishkeeping in general, is subjective. Health is one thing, but appearance is another. Fish can be healthy and "imperfect" at the same time. I am.


02-25-2003, 07:38 PM
ya know............I have some wilds in my tank that have big eyes and one is even called Wilson. I aggree we should take care of what we breed for the sake of the hobby and I beleive most do. But if mother nature can't get it right according to your understanding of a quality discus.....then who can? By the way..............if you don't have the guts to get out from behind an alias.........no-one will listen to you anyway.

02-25-2003, 07:54 PM
what alias? my name is john - i'm a real person - how about my phone number you want that? how about my address you want that? take my wife - please!

who is the moderator here ralph? don? i request that this thread be shut down - it's out of hand.

flogger aka john

02-25-2003, 07:56 PM
you aren't worth the typing.

have a good one.

02-25-2003, 07:59 PM
Can we at least know what flogger means? i've heard what it means in Oz.....
why flogger? curious here...
We are all still learning here. and hope we never stop learning. some of us here do just have a tank of pets. some of us are learning the history and bloodlines.and genetics..and trying to improve...and some are happy their fish are still alive. some of us are breeding with alot of help and advice from the breeders..and some are trying to create a new strain.
Id say alot of those fry your seeing being bred on here are being selectively culled. and that too was addressed in a post , on learning and knowing what to cull. Hunterbeave had a post on here asking for help learning what to cull. which also became an issue with one member. animal rights activist. there are many different sides to a coin.and alot of different strokes for different folks.
i have a batch of fry now...and i can assure you i know their whole family tree...and i am culling carefully. and i will not sell inferior fish to anyone. if i dont feel they are growing well or not good shape its not to my advantage to sell them..as then my name would suffer.
my fish in this pic is a direct descendant from schmidt fockes alencers but crossed with manacapura. got them sent to me from Australia. ;D
are they no good cause their a cross? next generation..i should have striated and more of a solid body.

02-25-2003, 08:07 PM
The Nazi SA was responsible for the "reproduction halls," not the SS. SS was purely terror and propaganda at that time, run by Goebbels. By the way, I'm 6'6, Blonde, and Blue-eyed. Something wrong w/ that?

02-25-2003, 08:08 PM
Flogger, you have missed one big point i see. Some of the people here are very proud of the fact that they have kept discus alive. Period. There fish are alive and well, and thats enough for them to be proud of. They dont need or maybe even want perfect fish. There are a select group of people who want to buy a less than perfect fish for a lesser amount of money and see if they can keep discus or not before they spend 1000's of dollars on great fish. What the hell is wrong with that?
If your worried about them breeding them.... dont be. Its there God given right to do what ever they want to with there fish.
They way i see it if you are so concerend, you should show us the way. You buy the best fish, raise them and sell them to the new commers for what they want to spend. 10, maybe 15 dollars each. Then they could all have fish YOU are proud of.
Tyler siad it right , lighten up. Worry about what you do, after all thats all you have controll of.
We all chose our own ways in life, some are perfectionist, some just plain dont give a sh!t, and most are somewhere inbetween.
Here is a pic of my best 2 fish. I just got them from my local fish store. Tell me why i cant breed them if i want to .....k
Matt the newbie

02-25-2003, 08:16 PM

those fish really ought to be put down, they are to far gone. do all your fish look like that?


02-25-2003, 08:18 PM
Flogger, there the best fish i ever owned, cuz there still alive. Even after 3 days now.
Thanks for the kind words though.
Matt, the newbie

02-25-2003, 08:19 PM
flogger is the nato name given to the russian mig-23 fighter jet.

when i first moved down here to fla and the cable guy was setting up my computer he asked me what my screen name would be. discovery wings was on tv and they were talking about this jet - the flogger - i thought it sounded cool so there you have it!

no i don't have a leather fetish!


02-25-2003, 08:47 PM
ok thanks. i just like to hear about curious names and all. sounds good to me..
matt.....i thought i tried to give you some guidelines on what fish to look for? im glad their alive. time for a water change now though. theres a saying we use here in the discus world. its..GDAWC. means go do a water change. usually helps alot. with health etc.
the one might be a bit small..and the other one doesnt have very good colour. but keep reading simply matt..theres lots of info and pics to see and read. welcome to simplydiscus Matt.

02-25-2003, 08:47 PM
looks like missed the facts.......


02-25-2003, 09:39 PM
Dear Matt the newbie,

Welcome to Simply.

Some day you will be successful at breeding fish and who knows, you might learn a great deal from all these oh so wise in their own minds keepers of wisdom & Discus perfection.

Oh don't forget you might have to take a step backwards so you can get a clear view of the whole picture. BUT BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU MIGHT STEP INTO WHEN YOU DO. :o

Andy :-*

ps. is that one of those rare black striped grey cloud discus?

02-25-2003, 09:40 PM
Good post Matt....couldnt have said it better myself ;)

DAMN!! thems some NICE fish....http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/_950/wonder.gif
Betcha that big one is the male.....I can just tell.

Tony ;D

02-25-2003, 09:43 PM
No way Tony,

Haven't you learned to sex discus yet. I thought you knew better. The little guy is the male for sure can't you tell it has all the signs that proove for sure that it's a male.


02-25-2003, 09:50 PM
SURE I know how to tell.....the boy discus is the one with the pecker.....aint it ???


02-25-2003, 09:52 PM
With thay way of thinking, the only fish we would have are the wild caught color configurations
The color variations we have today were bred that way. Very selective chooseing, and a little crap shoot, and thats how they came about.

02-25-2003, 09:53 PM
I think Andy is right because the little one keeps rubbing himself on the big one ( female maybe) by her butt( sorry, dont know right name) and i think it might be like fish foreplay. Then he rubs all over things in the tank, like the heater, plants ect, like hes marking his territory. I know many male animals do that, so i figure its the same with fish. Does that make any scense guys?
Please dont laugh at me if these questions are silly, because im sensitive.
Matt the newbie

02-25-2003, 09:59 PM
he might need a back scratch . kinda like the bears do against a tree. maybe post in the disease section?

02-25-2003, 10:00 PM

Is the little one breathing heavy too?

That would be another sure sign that it's a male cuz all guys get excited and out of breath when they see a good lookin woman ::)

I think he will try to make his move really soon too.


02-25-2003, 10:09 PM
Damn....I had it all wrong??

All my fish are beathin hot n' heavy.....so thats good...but what are those long white thingers hangin out of thier butts?? I thought it was thier peckers??


02-25-2003, 10:13 PM
Maybe its egg cases Tony, did the fish do it???
Congrats if thats the case, i hope you get some perfect fry from them, then these posts can stop. Better let Frogger be the judge though.

02-25-2003, 10:15 PM

02-25-2003, 10:16 PM
rofl u seems to know a bit for a newbie matt..I don't believe ur a newbie since those are A grade fishes..not many can achieve that kinda standard and u said egg cases? that confirm that ur not a newbie.;D ;D

02-25-2003, 10:19 PM
Discus are live bearer's.....EVERYONE KNOWS THAT...damn Matt....you are new..... ::)


02-25-2003, 10:21 PM
Maybe you haven't been feeding those fish enough Blackworms OR some might have the feeling your feeding
to many Blackworms.


02-25-2003, 10:30 PM
You guys are too much!!!!!!!! Stop before I burst something in my gut!!!!!

Matt welcome to simply and congrats on the breathtaking pair!!!!!!!!!!!!


02-25-2003, 10:30 PM
Thats it Dan....its the blackworms.............someone told me they cause tape worms..............jk...........I use em............ ;D

02-25-2003, 10:32 PM
LOL Dan, To each there own, as with the subject of this thread.... to each there own.
And my order today showed up in great shape.
Thanks again

02-25-2003, 11:01 PM

i have a pair just like that. only i think mine are fashion models because they are much thinner.i know they are clean, though because their poop is always white as can be, cleanest i have ever seen really.

02-25-2003, 11:13 PM

This is one of the best most informative posts on Discus Breeding this site has EVER seen.

I think this one needs to get a sticky or bookmark or better yet put this one in the library so all the other new discus keepers & breeders to be have a standard by which all else is to be measured.

Matt when you get frie I want some of those

Little Shaker X Black striped white cloud Discus I wonder what the FN1 will look like?

SLY, I know you know stuff so don't hold out on us. Do ya think they will breed true?


02-26-2003, 12:28 AM
Matt I guarantee from what you told me those fish are spawning! I would love to buy some fry when you get them. I know they will be in high demand but please keep me in mind. I want to try crossing them with my Flowerhorn.

02-26-2003, 03:03 AM
........your all in luck because I have some fry from my Discy-dory-cory-dory....These are top quality fish that I breed from Jack Wattley stock.....I will put these on the auction block so every one has a fair chance....

02-26-2003, 03:38 AM
Wow, how much for that Discy-dory-cory-dory? I hope it's not as much as that other one for $12,500...

02-26-2003, 03:46 AM
Gee I saw one of those on ebay for twice that. What a bargain.

02-26-2003, 04:20 AM
From my experience with the Discy-dory-cory-dory, that is a poor quality fish. The face really looks like a football with whiskers. That's a fact!!!!

larry lob
02-26-2003, 05:31 AM
I must say i am disgusted with you all !!!!!!!

Everyone knows that was not a whattly cross and actualy it was my F1 1st born super line dancing fish, strange because it was the first fish i had to have half live beared, half eggs broods.

No leave my fish alone!


P.s your all so cruel to laugh at my fish :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

02-26-2003, 09:50 AM
Sorry Lar'
but I'm going to start the bidding in the 4 digit range and I figure a Wattley will bring more money on the auction block than a Lob..... ;D

02-26-2003, 10:00 AM
Its a Whatlob........ ;D

02-26-2003, 10:24 AM

The strain is approaching "perfection".....but those Damn wiskers keep poping up....maybe "F23" will do it.


02-26-2003, 10:29 AM
I give up Tony.............you are my idol............. ;D

02-26-2003, 12:39 PM
...what do you mean...............this is an F30

02-26-2003, 05:57 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry (maybe both) after reading all this.

I too am new to discus, this forum and posting with a forum and I would say IMHO...I think you can look at this from different perspectives and a number of questions have popped into my mind:

If you were a buyer, wouldn't you would want to get fish that were colorful and would breed (fairly) true if you had breeding in mind. Am I wrong but you would keep Red melons with other r melons to see if they would find a mate amongst themselves?

If you had a mixed tank of discus strains and they found true love :-*, genetics say you would get some like Mom, some like Dad and some mixture of the two ( a cross---love the Disco-Cory ;D) Is this a good thing?

From the sellers side, you would not/should not sell a stunted fish. That just wouldn't be right. (Anybody want to buy about 50...from what was 300....little stunted sevrums about 11/2-2"...they look kinda like discus!)

But from an owners point of view, you love them completely. Maybe they're not perfect, but they live out their lives in your tanks. I don't know how many fish with curved spines or a missing operculum covers ate, drank and were merry in my tanks. It's like the island of misfit toys here because I have a hard time culling. :-\ And I don't feel bad at all about loving "imperfect" fish.

but I also like competition...I think it's fun when fish clubs do a "grow them up contest" where all the members (who want to participate) are given fry the same age, from the same spawning. Then time goes by and you check back after one year. The largest, roundest, best colored, best finned etc...wins the prize. Perhaps the owner wins a big fat check, lots of praise and everybody benefits from the process. Hopefully. Everybody except the trolls!!

02-27-2003, 04:28 AM
Hi all,
Can someone please tell me what MOTHER NATURE states as a perfect discus???????? or what the perfect eye color is???????? or what the perfect eye-size to body-size ratio is????????? or what the perfect shape is for a discus????????? What was the first discus on Earth???????? What came first, the Discus or the egg??????? I just can't seem to get a hold of her to ask her myself! Who is the person/breeder/magician/sorcerer I should ask who's been appointed by MOTHER NATURE to be her spokesperson? I have so many questions..................ANYONE, ANYONE? I need some OPINIONS.... OPINIONS...... OPINIONS.......

Sorry for the sarcasm, it was probably not necessary. On a more serious note, I would sure like to hear some thoughts as to what the heck this thread is all about. ???


02-27-2003, 08:47 AM
Steve : ditto ................there is no such thing as a perfect discus. Someone will always find something wrong with it. To me.........if it swims.......if it is alive.........its perfect. If you have ever seen my tanks you will note that I have a lot of perfect discus........ ;D To me it is like fashion models...........do you ever see "real" people looking like that?


02-27-2003, 11:02 AM
Showing fish and helping judges makes you appreciate differences. The show committee starts out by trying to find people who know wht the "standards" are for a particular family of fish. Usually judges do two classes so it's not just one judge deciding.

The judges have sheets to score the fish. They're supposed to be objective, but much of it is subjective (in the eye of the beholder) They look at things like size, finnage, color, deportment. They eyeball things and do the scoring and then if their scores don't match their 1st, 2nd, 3rd placements, they might go back and give one or two extra points to the fish they think is worthy.

Later, all the judges go around and pick Best of Show. This is where it gets sticky. There are arguments betw. judges. Usually its very hard when you're looking at many classes and they're all beautiful. :D Sometimes, they pick a Reserve BOS.

Now, i think where flogger started off is he comes into this after some absence. There are many new strains, some old ones have maybe disappeared or are not as prevalent. Its harder to appreciate the new because he thinks it's a dilution of the good old model. I took the poll "what's your favorite" and found that the highest catagory was solids so for many folks, new is good!!

Flogger might be just really sensitive to (his ideal of )perfection. And who among us hasn't gone into the LFS and said "I want that one"

I think what we're all aiming for is healthy, happy fish that live up to their potential. For some, that means culling anything that isn't "perfect". For others...if you got something weird, a Blue Diamond with two different colored eyes, yould say Oooh, I wonder if that will breed true to the next generation? Is that a good thing? (Yes for some, no for others) :P