Fluval 304 or AquaClear 500?

[Lauro Baldini]

Dear Friends:

I'm thinking about improving my filtration on my 50g Discus tank. I've been using a Millennium 2000, but to be honest I'm not satisfied. What should I do? Buy an AquaClear 500 or a Fluval 304? Here in Brazil they don't differ much in prize, that's why I'm asking... I've read an old thread and it seems to me that everyone dislikes Fluvals... Am I right?

Cheers,

Lauro.

[Carol_Roberts]

You are right. I've used both and my Fluvals (which still work) are in the closet. All my power filters are Aqua Clears. The Aqua clears keep the tank cleaner and are easier to clean.

[Goldfish_in_a_bowl]

Hi Lauro ;D,
I am with Carol,
We should get together Carol and have a Filter Garage sale! :-\
I have All Aqua clear filters and if I were to buy a new filter....I would always choose Aqua Clear I have had No problems with them.. and Like them better than others for the reasonS Carol stated.
HTH
Karen :gorgeous:

[Lauro Baldini]

Thank you Ladies! So what's the big fuss about Fluval? At least here in Brazil they are considered the filters "real aquarists use"!

Best regards,

Lauro.

[Richman]

AquaClear--Yes!

Fluval--No!
AquaClears are better for so many reasons there are not enough words available at this hour of the night to tell you.

[hunterbeav]

I use both and find they both serve a purpose. I love my fluval 304's, by the way it's what I have on my 75's. You want to talk about a filter that can handle a bio load. I kept 180 1 1/2 to 2 inch red turks in it for weeks. And guess what my ammonia and nitrite levels were through out??? 0 , nill, not-a, nothing. I also keep 15 LARGE discus in a 75 with a fluval, have for a long time. And guess what, you got it NO PROBLEMS and my water is crystal clear :) SO PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT !!!!!!!!! lol :) Love Jim & Diane

[Richman]

I've tried that, but the fluvals wouldn't crunch up into small enough pieces and just couldn't get them lit. ;D Cuban cigars are better. LOL

[hunterbeav]

Try dring them out first teheeeeeee!!!!

[RAWesolowski]

Lauro,

The canister filters are great for bio-load but can be a pain to clean. Beav will admit that after he cleans the filters and comes back. The aquaclear is a breeze to clean. So what do you do?

I run an Eheim on my large tank with an aquaclear. I use two filter pads in the aquaclear so I don't have to play with carbob. Tank stays clean. Fish like it. The tank is super filtered...

[Lauro Baldini]

Well, I haven't decided yet... But Carol and Karen have made me think... Anyway, Hagen will get my money.

[jim_shedden]

Lauro : I have a fluval 404. I thought that it was the best thing going until my power went out. Being enclosed the good bacteria die very quickly and I ended up with "New Tank Syndrom". This happened 3 times. Also, cleaning the Fluval hoses are a real pain. Mine is now stored in the closet and I use AC's and I also have a Emporer 280 which I also use.

Jim

[slicksta]

I have 304 and 404's and have never had a problem....me personally I don't like to see the filter hanging of the back.....I like it hidden under the tank....
When you get a routine....you can clean a 404 in less than 10 minutes....Put a prefilter on the intake and you won't have to clean it that often. I don't know why others have such a problem...

John

[DarkDiscus]

I have owned Aquaclears and Fluval canisters and I have to say that Aquaclears are - easy to clean, energy efficient, long lasting, inexpensive, and keep the water clean.

Fluval cannisters are hard to clean, the seals are a pain in the &$$, have impeller problems and the water is less clean than the Aquaclears.

The advantage is that you can put the canister under the tank stand.

JMHO,

John

[slicksta]

John (DD)
I really don't know what you guys are doing....but I have never had a seal or impeller problem in 10 years...and my water is crisp and clear...
I will give you that the AC500 maybe easier to clean, but the 404 is not hard to clean, handles one hell of a load, silent also energy eff, and out of site....
JMHO....
but then what the hell do I know......

John

[jim_shedden]

John : My biggest complaint is the hoses...........how do you clean them. If you casn convert me I will start using them again. My two are mothballed for the time being. I hate just seeing them sitting there.

Jim

[slicksta]

Jim
that may have to do with what you feed, your load and your water as why your hoses get gunked.....maybe more than mine.....use a prefilter..it helps
me, about once a year...I soak the hoses in a bleach solution then push a hose cleaner through it....takes about 15 minutes....
to me it's worth the extra time not to see the filter.........
John

Why worry about the hoses? It's a natural buildup. If I was concerned with this then I'd have to mothball my wet/drys & Magnums. For me Fluvals are more work then they're worth. The media capacity is no more then a couple of Hydro Sponge III filters. I don't know why I'd bother using one so I sold the one that I had. And the ability to hide the filter is not an advantage when you've got lots of tanks and not much space. Mind you I also don't have space for an Aquaclear either... my tanks are up against the wall with about 1/2" space between tanks and I don't want to hang a filter on the front of them.

Dave

[slicksta]

Dave
I agree with you on the hoses....I love my wet/dry....and I do the same for them....for someone with a multiple tank set-up....it's a non-issue....any individual filter is not your best system..IMO

I am a pure hobbyist and like show tanks.....that's why I do what I do......

John

[henryD]

I have had both of these and I find that AC500 is easier to clean. But I really don't see a big diiference between these and the Sponge filters. Maybe it can handle a heavier load but if you are doing daily W/C not sure it makes a difference.

As for canister, I use it for 100 gallon tank I have that I don't do daily w/c. It is also more of a show tank in my living room. So the fact that I can hide the canister is great. I think it does a heavier load than the AC500.

So I guess if you are going to do a BB tank and do daily changes I would just go with sponge and save money for more fish...

[shootingstar]

I am thinking about switching from fluval 304 to sponge filter. It is reall pain in the butt to clean it, I have replaced the impeller 2 times already ( paid $15.00 dollars each ), not to mention cleaning the filter pads and the hose......oh man....


My question now is: do I need both aqua clear filter and a sponge filter for my 55g tank ? I do water change everyday.

[Lauro Baldini]

The answers I'm getting here are similar to the ones I've received in a board here in Brazil: some people LOVE Fluvals, some people HATE them. Anyway, below is the Customer Service of Hagen answer on my question if I should buy a Fluval or an AquaClear:

"Dear Lauro Baldini,
Filtration of any tank involves a number of factors, personal preferences and the type of aquascape that is desired. You are correct that the AquaClear 500 in many cases is a cheaper alternative and it does pump more water, but in certain cases this can be a detriment rather than an advantage. You mention a planted tank, depending on the types of plants to be grown, strong currents may not be the wisest choice.

The two types of filters have different strengths, the AquaClear will remove particulate matter as a result of its strong water flow in input suction. The Fluval, on the other hand does not create as strong currents or water flow, but offers a much larger sealed canister that is designed to house almost any filter media available. The AquaClear has Foam, Carbon, AmRid (and Zeo Carb ammonia remover/carbon combination) Inserts made for it. You can strengthen the biological filtration with the addition of Bio~Max rings to fill the media chamber up.

As far as restarting the filter after a power failure, the Fluval is sealed and as long as the output is below water and there is no are trapped in the unit when the power fails, the siphon should hold, but this is not always the case. So yes, in many cases the factors required for restart when power is applied are not met each time. The AquaClear does start more often, but again the water level of the aquarium will influence this as well. Since there is essentially a siphon feed from the input when power is removed, the water will seek its own level. If the level of the tank is too low, the water will siphon from the AquaClear to the tank below the impeller well and thus the unit cannot restart either. Another factor that influences both machines is the way the power returns. The technology of both pumps is the same, an electromagnetic coil rotating a permanent magnet. The motors use little energy as they operate, but they both require the full voltage to be applied to start the impeller spinning. If the power returns gradually - slowly (in electrical terms) there may not be enough "pop" to allow the impeller to go around fully to get it spinning. This is a function of the way power is applied, not the design of the pump. So in some cases everything may be perfect for restart in the tank, but the gradual re-introduction of the power may not allow either unit to get the impeller spinning, instead the impeller will simply vibrate back and forth and not pump water.

I know this may not be exactly what you wanted to hear, however, the choice of the filter is most dependent on the type of aquascape you want to keep, the features of each unit are different and their abilities often help each other, rather than conflict.

Best Regards,
Rolf C. Hagen Inc.

Steve Pond"

Did he say anything worth reading or my understanding of English is ok and the guy just wants me to buy both filters?

Lauro.

[Goldfish_in_a_bowl]

Lauro,
Not sure why all the Hype about the Fluval's,
I am sure they are good filters ... I think it is like anything else.. It all in the "Name" or Marketing, Kinda like Cereals that have a PRIZE inside I guess! *&^ I hate that fight Every week at the grocery store with my kids! LOL

Great advice here...both are Great Filters with Both having Draw backs or different advantages.
And no I don't think anyone with a KBZILLION tanks would opt for the Hang on A clear 500.. Sorry I am Laughing thinking of Daves set up with Seperate AC 500 on the front of EVERY ONE of his Tanks! :spit: :spit: :spit: Sweeeeeeeet set up ya got here Dave! ;) ;D
but for someone Uh..... Like me ;D with a couple of display tanks it works.

Now Slicksta.......
Where do you put all You're JUNK if you put you're filter under the tank and use that space for what it is intended for? ;) HCOW I mean I have Bird seed.... Spare filter parts and air pumps that don't work but ya never know if you might be able to use them ::) Lights that are almost burnt out........ Yadda yadda yadda... I would have to get a storage shed just for my JUNK! LMAO
I know John... You could start up a Fluval cleaning service!! Yah yah... Fly up to Jims for the day... Clean his Fluval's.... ;) ;D

Karen :gorgeous:

[Aquarius]

I have Fulvals and takes me 20 min to clean two of them thats on one of my tanks. I had a Aquaclear that was on my kids tank a while back, sponge got clogged, water went over the back of the tank, and you can guess the rest...

Tehn again, if you lose power using the Fluvals, take them off the tank and drain them, cause if the powers off for awhile it won't be pretty...

As far as hoses..what hoses...why bother but maybe once or twice a year..I have more problems with the hoses on my wet/dry spitting out this white junk..

If your replacing parts to the Fluvals..somethings wrong..never had a problem with 03 or 04 series

Also of note to Lauro Baldini,

"Hagen will get my money"

Hagen makes both of these FILTER's, so either way, they get your money!

Lauro,

It's not worth reading. (the Hagen reply, not Karen's post... at least she provided pictures).

Fluval - dangerous in a power failure because it's sealed so oxygen can't get to the media
- can be hidden under or beside tank
- tougher to clean, hoses to disconnect, the fact that it's under the tank stand can make it even harder to get at
- hard to restart after cleaning
- prone to breakdown, seals can go, leaks can happen, impeller can die
- holds multiple types of media but doesn't hold much compared to the size of the unit
- output can be submerged, better for planted tank
- big bucks for what you get

Aquaclear - easier to remove sponges in power failure and rinse in a bucket of tank water
- must hang on tank edge
- easy to clean, lean over the tank and remove the sponges, place in a bucket of tank water and squeeze clean, replace sponges
- easy to restart after cleaning, you don't really have to turn it off to clean
- impeller can die but leaks are uncommon unless you overfill the media
- fill with 3 sponges only (other then AC500, 2 sponges), reasonable amount of media
- output must drop into tank, no means to redirect it, not as good for plants, keep water level high
- cheap

For me it's a no brainer, given these 2 choices I get the Aquaclear.

Dave

[Goldfish_in_a_bowl]

Lauro,
You were posting as I was.....
I read you're post, I think....I need more coffee!
I think he was just telling you that they are equal/close to the same in Different ways for different reasons....
and as far as the Start up on a filter after a power outage....
I am not sure that is a Plus. Depending on the outage length...I have had a few canisters that when I experienced a Power outage It was NOT what I wanted turned back on.
Okay....
I'll be back... I obviously need More coffee! LOL

Karen :gorgeous:

[roger]

I use both types of filters, since they both serve a different function.

The fluval are great for long term use on tanks with lots o fish. I also have some sponge filters in there. I use the sponge filters as seed filters for power losses or for new tanks.

The AC are great for tanks that are setup for temporary use, qt hospital etc ... They are easier to clean and you can add or remove carbon quickly.

I really cant recommend one over the other but if your crunched for money the AC are a better bang for the buck.

Peace,
Roger

[slicksta]

again.....
if your having problems with the seals and impellers I suggest you read the owners manual....no problems in 10 years with 4 different units...
as far as restarting the unit .......you have to be smarter than it....lol
clean mine in less than 10 minutes.....

Dave...if Ebo made them....would you like them then... ;D
(only kidding.. ;))

and I only keep filter, media, food and cleaning tools under my tank....

I'm not saying you should buy or use one.....but I am saying they are getting a bad rap for no reason....

Ha ha ha, if Ebo made them they'd overflow some people's tanks suddenly with an unexpected throughput of 30,000 gph. I find the disadvantages of the Fluval enough with Hagen making them, don't try to make it a worse product. 8) btw, I never had trouble with leaks or breaks, just priming it was a pain. I could even get used to that. I just found it was a brutal filter for my needs.

As for being smarter then the filter... I am... I sold mine.

Dave

[jim_shedden]

;D

ruht row :o

I like my fluval 404's :P

I have both, the aqua clears and the fluval 404's ..... I have 2 aqua clear 500's and a 404 on my 150gal tank..... sufficient filtration for my needs ;)

I do like the ease of cleaning on the aqua clears much better though ;)

Beth

AQUACLEARS ALL THE WAY BABY!! ;D

No comparison in my books...Ive used both extensively, and the aquaclears are easier to clean, by far...thats the BIGGEST advantage.

Im a pretty smart dude.....I know how to read instructions, have fine manual dexterity, and I know how to clean and reassemble the fluvals properly....and yet I to have had many problems with the seal, the impeller's, and the plastic plate that goes over the impeller.

Dollar for dollar you CANT beat an aquaclear.... period.

Tony

[Carol_Roberts]

Case Closed!

Carol....you, above anyone else should know.....the case cant be closed till you wack the hammer thinger!

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/k0/smashfreak.gif

There!

CASE CLOSED!! :P

[Lauro Baldini]

I started the thread, so probably is my head under that hammer... :sick:

For the record, I bought both filters! Am I crazy or what? :shocked:

[Ryan]

Hi Lauro,

Yeah, that's pretty crazy ;D but welcome to the world of discus keeping, we're all like that! The positive side is that now you'll get to test out both filters and see which one you prefer.

I personally have never used anything besides AquaClear -- it was the first one I tried and I loved it, so I had no reason to switch. They're very simple and versatile. I also have a HOT Magnum for water polishing but it sits and collects dust now. Between all the water changes, the sponges, and the AquaClear, there's nothing to "polish."

Ryan :D

[slicksta]

Lauro
.........let us know what you think of them.

to all of you who have those useless fluvals collecting dust....I'll be more than happy to help you clear some closet space.... ;D

You can send those fluvals my way as well :P

hehehe

Beth

[Goldfish_in_a_bowl]

GREAT TONY!
You are reading my mind again! that is EXACTLY what I was going to post... Then I thought.. Ya know I am a SA most of the time... okay ALL of the time so I chose going to bed instead!
Carol.... Tell Tony to STOP COPYING ME! ;) ;D
TS :gorgeous:
Lauro,
Let us know how it goes ;D

[slicksta]

GF_I_A_B....
well ya know.....simple minds think alike.....
see.....and you thought you were the SA..... ;D :P ;D


http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/9416face.gif

Beth
it's almost cruel to take advantage of the simple minded.....
I guess it's just survival of the fittest.....

[Goldfish_in_a_bowl]

See... that funny Slickstaaaaaaa
I was thinking more towards the initials of FOS ;D
and no where on this board do I feel ANYONE has the right to tell ANYONE they have a "Simple Mind"

Have a nice day!

Slick......since when?? Did stating PERSONAL OPINIONS and PERSONAL EXPERIENCES....rank as being simple minded??
AAAHHHhhhh.....when they dont jive with the Slick's opinions and experiences....
So....let me get this straight here....just for future reference. The people on this forum....1500+....must agree with Slick....otherwise were "simple minded"??

Ok....simple it is!! Better that than the label of " :-X :-X :-X" which you seem to wear quite nicely :-*

Tony

[brewmaster15]

ah.. only on discus board ... :-\ well actually it goes on everywhere in the world.


I'm sorry but I have to laugh at the strength of resolve we all show for the equipment in our tanks :)

.... whats better? cannisters have flaws, aquaclears seem to have less. I've never used fluval....I use magnum 350s, but I'll use what ever is availible.

Truthfully ..... what do you need either for? If you are doing the 30-50% wc a day that many here do... you don't need a mechanical filter...just bio.. and that can be a simple sponge.

at 50% a day, and ph in the acidic range , you might not even need that ;) :)

sorry just rambling...trying to diffuse an issue.... carry on :) but please spill no blood... WE just had the carpets done here. ;D ;D ;D ;D

thanks,
al

[slicksta]

c'mon now.....I'z just playin'

:-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D :-* ;D

[Richman]

WHAT???????
I can't believe this is still going on!!!
I thought everyone knew the answer to this one!!

(this ain't no lie ;D)

I have a 2 acre pond stocked with native game fish. Last year after the spring rains the water was terribly muddy. I decided to see if I could clear it up. One evening I took a AC 500 and hooked it up on the edge of the pond and turned it on. By the next morning the water in the entire 2 acre pond was crystal clear. The filter had removed all the dirt from the water and the bottom -- turned it into concrete, mortar, and bricks -- and had built me a brick house right there by the pond. MAN, WHAT A FILTER!!!!!!!

(this ain't no lie either ;D)

Once I had a 200 gallon aquarium which housed only a single guppy. I decided to hook a fluval up to it. While I was hooking it up, the guppy swam to the side of the tank - took one look at the filter- and I swear he died right there on the spot out of sheer hopelessness!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[flogger426]

you're nuts! pull those puppies out of the closet and fire them up! what are you talking about keeping hoses clean?

yes the hoses will turn brown over time, but so what! - the water coming out of them is filtered.

i really don't understand your point.

if you want to start off with "clean" hoses go to the store (i.e. hardware store - you have those up in canada?) and buy new ones. either that or bleach the ones that are currently on the filter.


later,

flogger

[flogger426]

frankly i think both filters suck for keeping discus. to much water flow. but if i had to pick one it would be the fluval!
fwiw.


flogger

[flogger426]

slicksta is absolutely right re: fluval

[slicksta]

sorry Richman.......
sounds like you bin a dippin' into grannies moonshine 'gain

[Richman]

Oh, no!! I ain't been dipping. Diving is the word.

I think I got the story straight, though. Let's see --- hmmmm. AC.....Fluval. Fluval......AC..... maybe it was the other way around........hmmmmm. Oh, well. Half of one, six dozen of the other.

Glad we sorted this out. Things have been getting a bit dull around here lately.. :D 8)

[slicksta]

glad to see some thick skin too...... :thumbsup:

[Goldfish_in_a_bowl]

:-*

[mikeos]

Had 304 for a while, & hate it, good for the bio-load & unobtrusive, but unreliable. impellers break in use, sometimes after only a few weeks. Dont have the aquaclears here, next tlme I will be buying Eheim pro for externals.

[Joao]

Lauro,

I also use an acquaclear 500, with one foam, ceramic noodles, blue bioballs, the ones from wet/dry, and carbon sometimes. I had an fluval, but I find this one much easier, actualy I have three, but using only one. It's easy to take the stuff in and out withoult turning it off, more air inside, if it stops, it can take more time , because of the oxygen, easy to clean and to acess.

Any more questions , just ask me, I know filters.

Hey Lauro you can talk to me in portuguese, if you have messenger, I have lots a friends in Brazil, S.Paulo, Rio, Para, etc.

Cuidado com esses peixes.

How was the carnival in there, lots a fun hem......I can imagine........

see you,
ate logo

Joao

[Joao]

Lauro, you bought the two, good for you.

Use the ceramic noodles and bioballs in the fluval make shure you are using a good pre-filter, so that way you don't need to open that much. The reason that I use noodles and bioballs, or only bioballs, is because they good for bacteria to grow, and because they are large open spaces you can see easealy when they need a rinse, foam will get clogged much faster, use it on the AC 500, w/ carbon, or something else.

The QUESTION IS are you not overfiltering the tank, I use only one AC 500 for 65 Gal, every day 10% Water change, and its excelent.

Here in Toronto, the AC 500 cust $85 cnd , and the fluval 104 about the same, the 404 it's $150 cnd, a lots of money,
I have 3 AC 500 but using only one, only one tank w/ seven discus,

Tchau, se precisar de mais imformacao e so dizer,

See you

Joao