Prefilter Sponge

[Carol_Roberts]

If you have a hang on the back power filter like an Aqua Clear or a canister filter you need a prefilter sponge on the water intake tube.

Picture bits of uneaten beefheat and discus poop floating about in your aquarium. If it's sucked into the filter it just sits there decomposing. Bacteria love it! And you are running every dop of water through it three times an hour . . . or more.

Sponge prefilters trap food particles and feces before they can enter the filter. You pull them off at each water change and vigorously rinse all the gunk off. Rinse them hard . . . these are mechanical filters. The good bacteria for biological filtration grow on the sponges inside the filter.

Here's some pictures of the ones I use on my Aqua Clears

[Carol_Roberts]

Here is a homemade one

[Carol_Roberts]

Equipment needed is 1/3 of a car wash sponge and a serrated knife

[Carol_Roberts]

Cut an X in the top and slip over the intake tube of the filter

[hkong]

I totally agree with you Carol. Protect filter bio-sponge from the leftover food is very important for Discus keeping especially in a bare tank. Frequently wash the filter bio-sponge will certainly kill all the Nitrify bacteria (measuring Nitrite will prove this). Yet, Infrequently wash the filter with large amount of food debris trapped in it will cause acid fall and further case Discus acid burn (See attached photo).

Carol, I always thought only bio-sponge could sustain bacteria attack. Will the car wash sponge decay over the time?

--Henry

[Carol_Roberts]

The car wash (prefilter) sponge will fall apart eventually because of all the daily squeezing and rinsing to clean it. I rinse it under warm tap water. The "good" nitrifing bacteria are inside the filter, you don't have to be careful with the prefilter sponge - clean it good.

[HarryW13]

Carol,
Were did you get the blue prefliter? I'm getting tired of looking at my ugly car wash sponge.
Harry

[Carol_Roberts]

I can't find them anymore >:( It was for a small Fluval internal filter I used the #2 size.

[Mr.Trips]

I took a spare pre filter off of my Magnum 250 Pro, cut it in a square shape and use a rubber band to hold it in place.

Very cheap, and very easy to clean!

[DejaBlue]

I have used an AC300 sponge filter and sliced it to fit onto the intake.

[Carol_Roberts]

The pores on the Aqua Clear sponges are pretty big. I prefer really fine pores on the pre-filter sponges. Fine pores trap more gunk.

I like large pore sponges for biological filtration (inside the filter). Large pore sponges are good for air driven sponge filters too. Instead of being trapped in the sponge the particles pass through so you can remove them from the tank.

[jamesmcsyd]

Carol,

Can you tell me what your protocol is for bio-sponges in the aquaclear? Do you EVER rinse them?

james

[jamesmcsyd]

Forgot to add Carol. I use a pre filter sponge on the intake, and ALSO a layer of floss, followed by a small bag of bio granule thingamijigs then the two aquaclear sponges. Do you like this idea? In particular the added floss? I rinse the intake sponge on most days, and replace the floss weekly.

James

[Carol_Roberts]

Your setup sounds very efficient, James. :heart1:

Yes, I do rinse the sponges inside the aqua clear from time to time. I'd say about every 6 weeks. If you see a fine cloud of particles when you restart the filter it's time for a cleaning in chlorine free water. You can rinse the sponges in used aquarium water or even a bucket of fresh change water.

[giroux68]

I just tried out the car wash sponge pre-filter! What a difference it makes to the inside of the mag 350. Thanks for the tip.

[Mat]

At the moment the english hobbyist doesnt have easy access to the hang on filters you have in the USA we have externals etc. The question is i have a fluval 4 external filter for my 48inch l, 24 inch h, 18 inch w tank ,would my fish/filter benefit from a spong on the intake or shall i leave it as is?

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes Mat, your fluval definately needs a fine pore pre-filter sponge. Fluvals have a reputation for trapping gunk inside the filter.

When it's time to clean the pre-filter, turn the fluval off, slide a big plastic cup under the pre-filter, push the sponge down into the plastic cup and remove it from the tank. This will lessen the amount of gunk that falls back into the tank and stop loose gunk from being sucked into the fluval.

[Mat]

;D Carol , the fluvl 4 has a internal prefilter sponge i was just wondering if it was worth putting a small sponge on the inlet pipe in the tank, or have i got my wires crossed?. sorry if i interpreted your message wrongly this is just to make sure ;D

[Mat]

:-XSorry Carol ive just re read your reply , sorry its as i suspected i confused myself haha yes its a good idea, one that i shall take up as soon as i can get to my local aquatic shop. The sponge i will get is only about 90pence about a dollar 20c . Thanks :blushing:

[Carol_Roberts]

Internal is the key word. Do you open your fluval every day or so, pull out the internal prefilter and rinse off the accumulated gunk? No? Then every drop of water in your tank is being drawn over the accumated gunk on the internal prefilter, three times an hour, for weeks and weeks.

The prefilter inside the fluval is acting as a mechanical filter so the big hunks of debris don't gunk up the biological filters (ceramic noodles and what have you). I'm saying that the mechanical filter should be outside the fluval so your can rinse it everyday or so.

LOL, rinse the gunk down the drain, don't let it disolve inside the cannister

[PARCS46]

Hi Carol: Thank you for your help with the pre-filter sponges. I have found a source close to home at Petland Discounts, go figure, like the anecdote quotes "fact is stranger than fiction." Some times we get lucky and things just fall into our laps. I've been going to that store over ten years, never seen them hanging on the wall. The sponges are made by Amiracle Plastics Inc. in Englewood, CO. I searched online could not find them. The product designation is FB-2000 Replacement Foam Block For PL-2000. Could be it's for some type of PenPlax filter. The deminsions are 11-1/2 in. long by 1-1/2 in. square. I'll do the researchand get back to you. They are a wee bit tight for the syphon tubes so one must be careful when making the slits. I started with a single edged razor blade and finished the cut with a small serated knife as per your timely guideline. Thanks again for all your assistance, hope to return the favor. Sincerely: 8) 8)
(Discus Devil)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi DD:
Post some pictures and show us your homemade prefilters. Let us know how the sponges hold up. My cheap car wash sponges fall apart too fast :(

[Fish Freak]

I use the sponge off my old pond pump

Thanks
Josh

[PARCS46]

Hi Carol: I will post pictures as soon as I can my Epson photo center to cooperate, seems like it won't accept the digitals from my camera. On the topic of pre-filter medium, there is a ton of stuff at Home Depot. I picked up some sediment replacements for household line filters, cut them to size on the band saw, plugged the hole in the bottom with glass wool and bingo, a pre-filter sediment trap as good as any commercial product made. I disposed of the packaging so I guess I'll go back and get the skinny on them so I can pass it along. Every little bit of info helps, I know as I started back in the "Dark Ages," when our only source of info came from Dr. Axelrod. I'll get back to you and the gang as soon as possible, Thanks Much: 8) 8)
(DISCUS DEVIL)

[thebaglady]

Think how far Dr. Axelrod had come from those pioneers in the 1930s!! Our Aquarium Society formed in St. Paul in 1931. Can you imagine?!

[Chris-C]

Hello All,
I have been using this sponge from home depot. The brand is Frost king, and its made to stuff around a window air condition to prevent drafts. It comes in a strip that is 2 square inches and is very convinient to cut to whatever length you want, make a slit in it and put it over the intake tube. I was them almost everyday and it holds up pretty well. Hope this helps

[PARCS46]

Hi Carol: How are you today? We just might have a topic for the forum in re the time line of the Good Dr. Axelrod research expiditions in South America and Africa. I seem to remember he was collecting speciments and taging latin names to same in the early 1920's. I have no clue as to who was doing any early research before Dr. Axelrod, I just draw a blank, could be he was the pioneer to the Amazon river and most of it's tributaries, and Africa as well. I tell you this stuff just better all the time. Back in the late Forties I read most everything published on Ichthyology, and most of it was written by Dr. Axelrod based on his expericences in the field and of course the labratory. Here we go again onto research of the researchers. It's getting late 1am thursday morning EST NY, I'm turning in for the night and pray for the boys at the front. Sincerely: 8) 8) (Discus Devil)

[PARCS46]

Hi Carol: This info is a tag along to your thread on pre-filter sponges. I found a quality product at That Fish Place/ That Pet Place in Lancaster, PA. made by Lustar it's called, Filter-Max Prefilter lll FM1930-FM1 & Filter Max lll Replacement Sponge FM930R-FM9. They are inexpensive and manfactured by a reliable source to the hobby. You can find them on line at http://www.thatfishplace.com. I hope this will help all who are seeking standup(ones that will last)pre-filter sponges as Lustar does indeed make quality products for the tropical fish hobbiest. Sincerely: :D :D (Discus Devil)

[thebaglady]

Dear Discus Devil,

Please tell us what you can remember of fishkeeping in the forties. Tell us about filtration or whatever.

I grew up in the sixties. My Mom had the Innes book and a subscription to The Aquarium (another Innes publication, monthly) I read every Natl. Geographic. I cherish this early stuff. Especially the notes I took in the margins on the fish we purchased! For instance, that the hatchetfish all jumped out!!

My roots began with carbon, floss and big boxey box filters. If you don't mind, tell us where you came in?

[PARCS46]

Hi Carol: I have some more on the pre-filter medium for syphon tubes as promised. The household in line water filter sediment replacement cartridges are of two types.

One is a felt like type of paper encased in a plastic mesh, possibly teflon caped(hole through) at both ends, Mfg. by Gen.Elec.,product# FXWPC. This one is for all type of sediment such as rust,soil,sand,silt or any fine foriegn particles carried in your water line.

The second type made by G.E. in this series is exactly the same except for the filter medium wich is sponge. It preforms the same as the first plus it removes chlorine, copper,iron,chloride,floride and many trace elements that are added to or finds it's way into our water supply. The porduct #FXWTC can be found at all of the Home Depot stores. They are quite inexpensive, seven dollars for two cartridges and are easily cut to suit. They are 9-1/2 in. long X 2-3/4 inch in diameter. One could easily make at least three syphon tube pre-filters from each replacement. At 7 bucks for six pre filters, it don't get no better.

You'll have to excuse me for my Brooklyneez, I thorw it in once in a while as to keep things on the lite side. It is just about this time in the evening, appx. 8pm EST when my serious Id leaves and DD takes the reins: Sincerely, 8) 8) (Discus Devil)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi DD:
I live in a rural area. The closest Home Depot is 90 miles away. I use online catalogs alot.

You should take pictures of any that you've brought home and tried. We'd all like to see it.

[PARCS46]

Hi Carol: As I have previously mentioned, I will get the pics. up when I get the correct software, so please have patienceI will get them posted as soon as possible. My priority at this point is in the rearing of my Red Leopard fry, plus a million and one other items that pop up. I did manage to get to Home Depot for the info on the syphon tube pre- filter medium as promised. Beside the Dicsus I also restore historical aircraft at Floyd Bennet Field NY, plus I have a exec. board position with a three hundred or so membership R/C Flying Club. All of this while constructing aircraft in three Boroughs in the NY Metro Area. As you can see My plate is full, very busy all the time, most days I put in eighteen hours or more: Sincerely, 8) 8) (Discus Devil)

[PARCS46]

Hi All: This is for everyone interested in a reliable source for pre-filter sponges! Lustar makes a quality pre-filter sponge, and for $2.99 a pop you can't go wrong. I'm using them(currently) as I post this thraed. They are 4in. long x 2-1/2 inches in diam. I found them at That Fish Place. Take a look, you have a lot to be gained w/pre-filtration. Use keyword www.thatfishplace.com and click on fish, then filters and finally sponge. Scroll down a little and you'll find them. Thanks Carol: Sincerely, 8) 8) (Discus Devil)

[thebaglady]

Hi Discus Devil,

Please post the email you sent to Carol (then forwarded to me) regarding your early experiences with fishkeeping. It was fascinating.

I really liked the part about keeping the tank warm by using a candle!!

Very resourceful :P Thanks, thebaglady... Jen K.

[PARCS46]

For Jen K. in re, (The Dark Ages) as per your request, and for all in The Forum with similar backrounds:

Hoping this finds everyone in good spirits at our Nations time of strife. I am thinking of our young people at the front and my prayers go out for them. Although I am a Korean Veteran, I was lucky enough to have a good education for the time, and found myself in the USAF as an A&E (aircraft & engine) mechanic, Stationed at Chanute AFB in Rantoul, IL.

Before that I had a pretty normal childhood. I am the second oldest of twelve siblings. My beloved parents were hard working American Patriots whose ancestry is from Bonnie Wee Scotland. For my tenth birthday I received a 2-1/2 gal. tank and two goldfish, which turned out to be native carp. That is how it all started Jen. By twelve years of age (1949), I had acquired two twenty longs, bought and paid for by running chores and part time work before and after school. You are absolutely correct, it was no picnic keeping tropicals. All the tanks for the most part were chrome framed with slate bottoms. Silicone cement had not invented so the glass was set into the chrome frames of the tanks with non-toxic putty. We preformed routine maintenance to keep the leaks to a minimum. I do not remember seeing power filters, or reliable heaters, although in-tank filters were as varied as the colors of the rainbow. The filter medium, as you remember, was glass wool and charcoal(not carbon), thank God for little the little things. If you stuck with the carp(goldfish) you had no problems with the heating. Right here you have to remember who is paying for the G&E, certainly it was not I, and so a bargain was struck with Mother and Father as for surely I must have some Tropical Fish.

I was to have only one twenty long to be placed at the south of the house, relying on the warm sun of only three seasons, supplemented in the cooler evenings with a large diameter candle alight and safely placed under the slate on the bottom of the tank. Although this system was not perfect, I was not the only one employing same and enjoying tropical fish. I have never belonged to any organized club for the advancement of the wonderful hobby of Tropical Fish. There was a loacl pet shop in my neighborhood, were most of my knowledge at that time was gleaned. I must say it was a very solid foundation for the coming years, as the discipline, now that I am looking back was quite vigorus. There weren't too many problems with the tropicals from mid-April thruogh late October, when at that time, you traded in your tropicals at the same neighborhood pet shop for the goldfish and some extra goodies.

It remained that way untill I was to enlist in the USAF. After my discharge from the military and some ten years later, my first born son and I stopped at the local pet shop. Well I nearly fell down in pure amazement, the technology had taken a giant leap since my absence from the hobby. There were tropicals from the world over,and powered filters, small air pumps not the old belt driven piston type(I still have two of the latter in perfect working condition), more medication that we had at home in the medicine cabinet. A complete library of books and monthly mags, dealing with every known subject by every notable ichthylogist of the time. Every modern convenience and contraption that never existed before. Of course this was all for the pursuit of the hobby and hobbyist, be he novice or expert.

My son was six then, he is now 46 and it has been nonstop since that day we walked into that local pet shop, except for an occasional hiatus now and then, we all need a break at times. So here I am all set up again and growing out Red Leopard Discus with all seemingly as natural as can be expected, getting ready to breed and be in happy land once more. Jen I surely enjoy sharing with someone whose been there, but unlike yourself I did not keep records, with having the foresight to realize that things always change(except for the basics), someone constantly finds new ideas, new techniques and so I have developed a mechanism for baselinse information retention, it works for me, like I've said we are all in the learning curve, somewhere or other so just keep on trucking: Sincerely,
8) 8) (Discus Devil)

[thebaglady]

A few snipets of what I can remember:

Neon tetras were .12 cents a pc. on sale for .07 We were recommended to buy "schools" by LFS sales clerks...Not hard to do in those days.

Most were "bread and butter" fish, but all were beautiful to me. I was hooked at an early, early age and remember looking at fish at a shopping mall (Southdale was one of the first indoor, contained malls in the Country), with great interest.

Temperature was regulated by heaters. I don't think we owned one that didn't bother our B & W t.v. Needless to say, our 20H tank was also near a window which got a lot of natural lighting.

Tops/hoods were beautiful stainless steel. They gleamed. I had no regard for our water conditions and worked hard to keep the tops from getting hard water deposits.

We had UG filters and also those big boxy ones which had tubes hanging here and there and were hard to prime once you disconnected them. Cleaning the charcoal before placing it in the filter was messy. We had dedicated cleaning equiptment, like spaghetti strainers for charcoal, that were only used for aquarium purposes.

Before we knew about the bacteria colony growing under the UG filter, my bro and I tore down MANY a tank, an entire Saturday procedure, to CLEAN the tank top to bottom. We had well water so we must not have killed all the good bacteria, but some mysterious fish losses were expected. We could always get more!!

Funny about the old air pumps....they were very reliable. I had a Supreme Challenger by Danner that just gave out a couple years ago!! That thing had been suppling air for like 25 years! Other names I remember were Metaframe ie: the Hush II

My parents, especially my Mom, enjoyed fish. We had a large built-in tank in our living room. This tank held native fish like sunnies and perch. We fed chopped up earthworms etc... I would tell my brother's "peskey" friends that they were piranha and that I would stick their hand in the tank if they got out of hand while over at our house. Of course, they were VERY well behaved!!! ;D

My Dad had made an automatic fill/flush system for this tank. Unfortunately, out of copper tubing. Not the best choice, but who knew then?

I started loving fish then and today, I have thirty-five tanks. I keep cichlids, killies, rainbowfish and some natives, like darters. I have never kept discus, but hope to soon! Cary and Joe are coming to Minnesota in early April. Can't wait!!!!

[GWdiscus]

I have a millinnium 2 exterior filter on a 75 gallon tank, I didn't want to go to the larger 3 because I had read from another source that discus don't like fast moving water. After reading about how others use the larger filters on this forum I wish I had gone to the larger filter. Because I was using the small filter and the intake tube was so high I didn't think a prefilter sponge would be very much help. But I decided to try it anyway, and what a hugh difference it makes, I am amazed at the amount of material it picks up and prevents from accumulating in the filter itself.
Thanks for the idea Carol. :D

[PARCS46]

Hi GMW: You are right, Carol idea to use pre-fliter sponges was a great idea. I also tried w/a very good result. I wonder how she came up with the thought, sometimes you are struck, as if by magic with something that is so basic and yet so fantastic it really amazes me(every time) when I see it happen,lol. If you have read the posts you will see that it motivated me to do the research as to sources for same. As I use power filters in all of my tanks, the sponges was a Bonanza for the health of my fish. It takes appx. one week for the beneficial bacteria to colonize in the sponges. That is when you start to gently clean them. My meathod of cleaning is to use a bucket of tank water that the sponges are in and to gently squeez them untill all the visible waste is rinsed off. In this way you leave the beneficial bacteria colony in tact. Rinse your sponges once a wk. in this manner, you'll have happier healthier fish. Currently I,m using four different type of pre fliter sponges on the syphon tubes. You will find what they are and where to secure them in this thread: Just Keep On Trucking. Sincerely, 8) 8)
(Discus Devil)

[GWdiscus]

Hi DD,
I too rinse my sponges out once a week in a pail of water from my holding tank. Also during my daily water changes, I have 7 young discus, I run the siphon over the sponges to remove any of the larger material and some of the finer dusty material too.
Michael

[Carol_Roberts]

I rinse my prefilter sponges everyday when I do my water change. I don't want my water running over several days accumulation of gunk on the outside of the sponge. I don't worry about maintaining bacteria on the prefilter sponge. I use it as a mechanical filter only and rinse them vigorously right under the faucet.

I rinse the sponges inside the filter in used tank water about every 6 weeks. These are the sponges that are full of the "good" nitrifying bacteria. Even with the prefilter they still accumulate some mulm.

[CHughes]

Carol:
Thanks for the great tip, I was wondering do you use this method in a breeding tank with fry, or should that be strictly a sponge filter?

I like my AC 300s & 500s for the job they do keeping the water very pristine, but am afraid they will be sucking in any fry that may be free swimming.

Chris

[Carol_Roberts]

I just have sponge filters in the breeders tanks. When I move the babies at 3 or 4 weeks the 55 gal tanks have an aqua clear 500

[daddyg70]

Hey Carol,

I just put 1/3 of a carwash sponge on my penguin 330 as a prefilter. It works ok but not very appealing in a BB tank and a hydrosponge. Do you know of any website that sells prefilters like your first picture in this thread?

I also took your advice earlier about adding AQ sponges in the penguin instead of the inserts with carbon that Marineland sells. The flowrate has dropped but thats ok, right?! I read that discus do not like high flow rates anyway.

How often should I rinse my AQ sponges and clean my filter?

Thanks

Greg

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Greg:

There is a real prefilter sponge out there - Ryan has one, but I can't remember who makes it. I've wondered if the sponges for powerheads will work . . .

The reduced flow rate is OK. It depends on the fish load as to how often to clean the internal sponges, but every 4-6 weeks works for me

[thebaglady]

I have a "real" pre-filter made by Aquarium Technology, inc. (same folks who make Hydro sponge) It's called Filter Max II pre-filter, for tanks up to 40 gal. This is the bigger of two sizes, but....

It was too short (only 4") to be useful on my intake tube so I'm using a home-made pre-filter sponge. Openings on my intake are about 5 1/2.

One thing, it does seem to have larger pores than the reg. Hydro-sponge filters. It's meant to prevent food or fry from entering the main filter. I'm assuming you don't want to impede/restrict the flow much, just trap large stuff from going in the main filter, so BIG holes are better. Can be used on a power head.

[Carol_Roberts]

Personally I like very fine pored sponges to trap all the little particles. The slower water flow gives more time to be in contact with the good ammonia eating bacteria on the internal sponges.

[thebaglady]

Thanks Carol. And you rinse them every day during water changes. Mine doesn't slip on and off that easily, but maybe it will overtime.

I'm reflecting back on advice from Willie. He said, a little biological filtration (a sponge filter) goes a long way with discus.

Mechanical filtration (power filters) are wasted because you change so much water, they are essentially an afterthought. :P Sage advice to a newbie!! (at least I have discus now!)

[jamesmcsyd]

I wash my prefilter sponge daily, but my problem is that when I take off the sponge from the intake tube, alot of gunk flies about and is released back into the tank. Sometimes I use my siphon to siphon the pre filter before I take it off, but even still, some gunk gets back into the water. Does anybody have a trick up their sleeve to address this problem, or am I being too paranoid about cleanliness!

By the way, I use a thick carwash sponge for my prefilter. I rinse it everyday, and even after 3 months, it's as thick and tough as when I first got it!

James

[thebaglady]

I have noticed that too James. Little bits of this or that fly off into the water.

Some people say their fish eat the stuff off the pre-filter, but i haven't seen mine do that, maybe they would if they were older and got less feedings a day (right now, they're getting five meals :P each day!)

At least all that little stuff isn't in the main filter. :D Jen K.

[Carol_Roberts]

Here's what I do. . . . I don't have extensions on my intake tubes, so the pre-filter sponge is just below the bottom of the aqua clear.

After I have removed the old water (filter is turned off) the sponge is partially or fully out of the water.

I take a large plastic cup, manuever it under the pre-filter sponge, then lift the cup up until it covers the sponge, then push the sponge down off the intake tube deeper into the cup.

I remove the sponge filled cup from the tank, rinse it vigoruously under the tap and replace.

AFfter a little practice you can do it with most of the water still in the tank.

[jamesmcsyd]

Funny you mentioned your method Carol. That idea hit me square in the face today, as I was pondering how to overcome this problem. I gave it a go, with the sponge still below the water line, and presto! Worked a treat! Not one bit of 'gunk' spillage. Then I logged onto the internet and found out that you have been using this method all along.
Great minds think alike Carol! :D

James

Hi,

another great use for the prefilter sponges is that they trap the flakes i feed.

Really neat to watch those guys learn their favorite spot.

alex

[Carol_Roberts]

;D ;D ;D

[daddyg70]

Hi everyone,

I got rid of my big and un-aesthetic car wash sponge as a pre-filter and replaced it with a fluval 3 filter sleeve similar to Carol's pic in the beginning of this thread. Hope it works!

Greg ;D

[Nightowl]

Prefilter sponges! My favorite topic!(one of)... they ask me at work: J, sell any pfs. today? Lustar provides 3 types: Max3 a coarse sponge for higher flow rates. Max 2 uses the same sponge as a Hydro sponge filter #2, and max1 is one half size of # 2 for smaller filters. These pfs. come w/ fittings that will adapt to whisper filters1 2 & 3; the tubing sizes of fluval & eheim canisters; aqua clears(all sizes) + Millenium 2000's(a personal fav.)Not sure about marineland stuff. They don't adapt to mill.3000's right out of the box.. u must improvise. Another thing that works is the (now kaput) tetra billi& brilliant sponges. I will use on aclear200's.Probably could adapt to larger w/ Carol's kitchen knife procedure. Hagen also makes a similar sponge replacement(at least they did last year). Carol: its a longshot but I might be able to get those blue sponges for the fluval internal filter....was able to get the fiber insert for them about 6 weeks ago... believe its same model... will let you know........ J(nightowl) Happy mothers day to all! one more thing : have also used # 3& 4 hydro sponges on the prefilter "chassis" so to speak, for improved function... they just look large is all.

[jamesmcsyd]

For australian readers

The yellow car wash sponges they sell for about $2 in COLES is what I use, and they work a treat. I'm still on my first one. Tough and finely pored.

James

[Shari]

Ok I'm finally getting smart and going to add prefilter sponges to my tanks this week. May be stupid question but I presume you take the little extension 'cage' off the intake tube before you put your sponge on? Only concern I've had is water intake flow rates which is why I've delayed using them.
::)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Shari:
Nope, I leave the pointy filter tip on and slide the sponge over it.

Perhaps your filters are too small if you are worrying about flow rate? What size filters do you have on what size tank?

[thebaglady]

Yep. I left the little cages on too, but mines' not pointy like Carol's on one of my tanks....One's an Aqua Clear, ones a Supreme Aquamaster 400.

One has durable internal sponges and pointy outlet tube so it's easy to get the pre-filter on and off. One has non-durable floss type internal sleeves and non-pointy outlet that's not as easy to get the pre-filter on and off.

Can you tell which power filter I like better???? ::) Jen K.

[Carol_Roberts]

Aqua Clear ;D

[thebaglady]

Ding, Ding Ding ;D :D ;D Carol wins!!!

Something Tyler posted a while ago interests me now...it was about extensions for power filter lift tubes. If ya gotta change all the water in their world, ya gotta have the cage opening area down as low as possible. Right.

Instead, I've just been doing multiple changes, multiple times during the day, but wonder about extensions. ???

Any thoughts Carol?

[Carol_Roberts]

I don't think the intake needs to be a the bottom of the tank - besides it makes it harder to pull and rinse the prefilter. I use extensions on the AC 200, but not the 300 or 500. I vacumn feces, etc. off the bottom daily. I figure the prefilter is just so things don't get sucked inside the filter.

[thebaglady]

I have an Aqua clear 200 on the smaller discus tank and I'm realizing that if I was gonna take the water level down way low...to change a larger percentage at one time, it would break the action of the power filter and I would have to re-prime the thing.

Instead, I've been changing 20-30% morning, 20-30% mid day, 20-30% in the evening to get around this. not as good as doing 90% all at once i'm thinking??

Maybe just fine...??? Thanks for your quick response Carol. Jen K.

[Carol_Roberts]

Lol, that is exactly why I have the extensions on the AC 200. I can change water in a 29 gallon tank with the filter running and it won't lose suction.

[Shari]

Hi Shari:
Nope, I leave the pointy filter tip on and slide the sponge over it.

Perhaps your filters are too small if you are worrying about flow rate? What size filters do you have on what size tank?


Thanks for the info as well as the pics!! I have am Emperor400 on each of the 55's, and an Ehiem Wet/Dry on the 120. The Emperor's have those larger square 'cages' on them which is why I asked.
As for my flow rate question guess I just thought a sponge over it would slow it down - obviously not enough though if so many of you do this. dahhhh this site and you folks are such a wonderful wake up call for me. ;D p.s. why is your choice filter better than the Emperor if I may ask - I just know these so stuck with them I guess.

[Shari]

I've gotta get in on this issue about the water level and intakes...been driving me nuts. I'm ok on the 120 and go a full 1/2 way down with no worry, but on the 55's if you use the regular intake it's only about a foot down in the water, I added the attachments to lower the 'cage' to almost the bottom but alas the filters go down as soon as water level hits the little crack in the plastic - was thinking maybe aquarium glue would close it up - course it would have to stay that way forever...but I really need to do the tank change just once in a day. Think my idea is ok - or do we see problems with it?

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Shari:
Aqua clears are easier to clean than the emperors and they are less likely to break down. The AC 500 has a big open box and room for 2 big sponges. The emperor is split into two boxes that hold less media.

I turn off the bigger filters when I do water changes. To refill the tank I place (wedge) one end of the hose in the AC 500. This refills the filter and the tank

[Kap]

Carol is right - the Emperor IS a bear to clean, though I cannot contrast it with the Aqua clears personally. Just from observation, the depth of the Emperor appears narrower when looked at from the top, which might be relevant for placing aquariums in confined spaces. Also, the Emperor's filtering power can be cut way back when feeding while the aeration on the bio-wheels still continues to work. Because of the intake size of the Emperor tube that transports H2O into the filter, you need a big sponge to keep the water flowing.

[ozone]

Nice column on the prefilter I will implement it. 8)

Thanks

[Fishin dude]

Hi, If you are looking for max aeration and efficiency, I must defend the emperor. If you include the wheel with both inserts, the total sq. inches of water contact, is according to my calculations 20-30 percent greater than any filter in the class....also I do not recommend the use of a prefilter as it will slow the flow through the media...with fresh water tanks, the faster the flow through the filter box enable the "friendly sticky" bacteria to obtain more O2 and therefore convert more. DL

[Carol_Roberts]

Discus are different than other tropical fish. We are looking for the cleanest tank water. That means no solids clinging to the biofiltration media (sponges) inside the filter, daily water changes and clean tank interiors.

[ronrca]

:thumbsup: Carol!

Absolutely clean! In discus tank with aeration and surface agitation, 02 isnt really a concern. Perhaps water flow thru the filter to convert is a concern. Definitly better to be vacuuming the feces out rather than having with decay inside the filter. ;)

Another thought! The aquas prime themselves dont they? So if the water level drops below the intake of the aqua, its not a big deal. Once the water level reaches the intake again, the filter starts moving water again. ;)

With the LARGE water changes(and vacuuming) we all do..there would typically be alot less ammonia and nitrite in the water column as compared to a "community" type aquarium....So a slower water flow shouldnt hurt anything, and IF the prefilter is cleaned at each water change....the flow is restricted VERY little anyhow.
Without a doubt...use a prefilter.

Ron

The Aqua Clears will restart if the water level in the filter box doesnt fall below a certain level, which it typically doesnt. But on occasion it will...its easy enough to restart just by pouring some more water in the filter box.

Tony

[Fishin dude]

Another denitrator crash-and-burn!
by eethomp-at-welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (ELAINE THOMPSON )
Date: 8 Dec 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
Well, after the DIY coil denitrator stories that George and others
(sorry...I forgot who else) posted a few months ago, I should have known
better. But, I tried installing a Nitrex box in my 29g planted tank,
thinking that maybe something that was commercially available would work.
NOT! So here's my sad story that will hopefully convince you not to try
Nitrex.

I put the gadget in at the start of October. It's an almost sealed box
with a medium that is supposed to selectively grow denitrifying bacteria
and allow only a slow flow of water through. Nitrates did drop within a
couple of weeks to below 25 ppm--the bottom of my cheap test kit. Before,
they were between 25 and 50. Great, I thought. It works, and the algae
growth has slowed to a virtual standstill.

The problem? Fish diseases. After one round of killer Ick, one round of
bacterial stop-eating-hang-out-at-the-top-and-die-in-24-hours disease, and
two rounds of Columnaris, I had had enough. Water tested fine; pH 7.0, no
ammonia, no nitrites. And all of my other tanks have been WAY healthy.
What finally convinced me to yank the Nitrex box was when I added a new
clown loach from another healthy tank and he got Columnaris too.

So, I pulled the box out of the tank. I opened it up and was greeted by a
foul rotten-egg odor. So much for the Nitrex stuff not allowing
sulfide-producing bacteria to grow. Immediately, the fish looked
healthier, and that evening my angelfish ate his first healthy sized meal
in a while. The clown loach is healing up too.

The moral is: don't try denitrification. It's not worth it. Really,
it's not.

[ronrca]

Thanks Fishin Dude! I have always wondered about those units! Im a little leary about them. Personnaly, Id setup an algae filter to combat nitrates if I had a problem with them.

Just curious though, how does the story relate to the prefilter sponges that we were discussing. This is a great bit of info that I would recommend starting another thread in the General Section so that we all can read it!

Thanks! ;)

[Fishin dude]

Rate of flow through the filter box...sponge inhibits flow

[ronrca]

Ok! I understand where your coming from but how does that relate to denitrafication? Can you please explain!

Dont misunderstand me for questioning! Im trying to understand how you are relating the two! Im not out to 'get' you! ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi fishing dude:

The prefilter sponge does not inhibit the flow that much on the aqua clear.

Your example also shows that no amount of clean water can overcome a filthy (stinky) filter. A person could do 100% daily water changes, but every drop would be circulating through that stinky filter 3 times an hour picking up bacteria.

Prefilter sponges stop rotting food and feces from entering the filter box

p.s. I hate enclosed canister filters and never use them.

[ronrca]

Carol,
Some good points but it goes further than that! In order for denitritcation to work, the water has to be absent of any 02. Discus tanks, especially bb and with air driven filters, are far from 02 depleted.

Additionally, denitrification also requires nitrates, nitrites or ammonia plus no or very low 02! Again bb discus tanks have none of these requirements!

The process behind denitrification is basiclly the nitrogen cycle but backwards. The bacteria involved still require 02, doesnt matter if its the nitrogen or denitrification cycle. In the nitrogen cycle, the bacteria aquired the 02 from the water. In the denitrification cycle, because there is no 02 in the water, the bacteria aquired the 02 from nitrate (N03), nitrites(N02) producing ammonia(NH3), N20 and N2. They abstrat the 02 molecule from the nitrate N03 producing N02 (nitrite) and so on!

HTH! ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Ron:
I wasn't answering the denitrification question . . . only using Fishing Dude's example to illustrate the need for clean filters ;D

I denitrificate my water by running it onto the lawn :P

[kenoz]

Sponge pre-filters are great, but take it from one who almost lost the lot: be careful to wash them thoroughly before use in case there is detergent or other harmful substances present.

On the slightly related subject of canister filters, well I've used them for years without much maintenance, and watched fish die without warning. It really is a case of "out of sight, out of mind". I still use large ones in my koi ponds but wouldn't dream of having them near my discus. By the time the flow rate has dropped so that you notice it, it is probably too late and harmful toxins are getting into your clean water.

[Fishin dude]

Carol, A little more research.... Check this out...

> The Bio-Wheel Pro 30 uses a powerhead to drive the water into the bio-wheel,
> and uses a sponge to pre-filter the water, no? Wouldn't the suction on the
> filter "suck up" my fry?

   The sponge pre-filter actually works to acheive the opposite
effect. In fact many people jury-rig a sponge ot the end of their
box-type power filter's intake to disperse the suction over a larger area
thus reducing the force of suction per any given area. (Am I making sense
here?)

> Is all of the output of the powerhead going into the drip for the wheel, or
> is some of it vented into the tank? What kind of currents will this induce
> into the water??

Well, the answer is yes _or_ no _and_ yes. Look at this:
(ASCII-art is an oxymoron)

__________
/=| |
| | Main Box |
R^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|^|__________|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^R
| |o o |
| | ^^^^ ^^^^^ |
| +---+ | ^ |
| |PH | | | |
| +---+==***===U Slow |
| /H\ \\ Flow |
| HHH of |
| HHH Water |
| HHH from |
| HHH here |
| |
|___________________________________________|

Okay, in some order:
   PH = powerhead

13 H's = the sponge prefilter underneath the PH

   == is the PH outflow

*** = the plumbing 'flow vent'
   \\

===U = another peice of plumbing, a J-tube or elbow

   The stack of verticle |'s represent the 12" section of 3/4" vinyl
tubing that leads to the BW Pro main unit which is clamped on the frame of
the aquarium.

   *** will be refered to as just *** now.
\\

   If you are familiar with Penguin powerheads or Magnum canister
filters, *** in the diagram is a slight modification of the directional
output that comes on the outflow of either of these. If not, just keep
reading. :) It is basically a tube with a flap attached to the end which
can be rotated around the tube 360deg and be pushed fully open or fully
closed over the tube (a full 90deg of motion). Imagine == (from the
diagram), which is the PH outflow, again here, I'll put a directional piece
on it and I'll show the movements here as well as I can:

__
== ==\ ==|

full forward down directed minimum flow
outflow outflow outflow

* Note, invisible (in ASCII) parts: the hinge for these movements is on
the second equal sign on all three diagrams. Also, the directional piece
on a BWE Pro 30 is attached to the \\ part on the BW Pro's plumbing.

   All these movements are done in a single plane of movement and
that plane cane be rotated 360deg around the PH outflow (or whatever
outflow the directional piece is on.)

   Please feel free to question any of this. If I have any luck,
you're familiar with Marinland/Penguin filters already and know what I'm
talking about. Direct questions to mbmccabe-at-bronze.coil.com. :)

> Last, (and very important) how hard is it to move the bio-wheel from tank to
> tank? This new tank will have periods of days/weeks where it will be empty,
> and I had envisioned a power filter that was easy to move so I could hang it
> on my everyday show tank to keep the little bacteria critters alive between
> tank-loads of guppies.

   Refering, again, to the diagram, the o's below the Main Box are
plastic finger-screws which clamp the Main Box to the glass. (part of
the Main Box extend over the back to fit roughly behind the finger screws)
   I leave mine alone most of the time, but can make some
observations: the finger-screws are quite sufficient to hold the MB on
the rim of the tank; it is easy to think you have to over-tighten the
screws (I did and cracked a piece on the filter), but the MB is very
light; if you tighten the screws only 'just enough,' it will be simple to
move it from tank to tank. The powerhead simply attaches to the aquarium
glass with a suction cup.
   Good idea about keeping the filter going between fry generations. :)

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man."    -- George Bernard Shaw on the subject and I found this.

[ronrca]

???
Sorry but you lost me!

[norham]

Hi
On the subject of pre filters, if you want to make your own for reasons of supply or preference try soaking them then popping them in the freezer. They can then be shaped with a serrated knife and holes drilled with a hole-cutter (most DIY enthusiasts or tradesmen will have them just borrow the correct size). The sponge must be defrosted before removing the core if a hole-cutter was used. If you are lucky enough to be able to borrow a large cutter you can use this for the outside. The sponge must be soaked or even frozen in ice for best results.

[RyanH]

I recently purchased a few sponge pre-filters from www.jehmco.com and they have worked out really well so far. They were around 6 or 7 bucks and included all the possible attachments for pretty much any filter you use.

I am in the process of phasing out my canister filters in favor of sponge and power filters but in the meantime, this has worked out really well for my Fluval 404's. They stay much cleaner and do not have to be serviced as often.

[Nightowl]

Ryan, are the prefilters you mention the hydro- sponge types? I find they have attachments for most filter units and are reasonably priced. Also, whereas I do use some canister filters, I strongly recommend de-fluvalizing any tank w/ valuable fish in them. We use them at work, but are switching to others as they give up the gost, so to speak. THEY are AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN!!!!( dead fish, ruined ceilings, etc.) Later, J(Nightowl) :vanish:

[RyanH]

Hey Nightowl,

They are the hydro-sponge filters and they are extremely reasonable in price. I agree with you on the Fluvals. It is time for them to go. The one problem I am having is in my show tank. It is a 75 gal. Acrylic that really seems to be made for a marine setup and because of the way it is designed a back hanging power filter would not work on it. I have 2 hydro-IV's in it but I would really like to keep some type of mechanical filtration. I only use the sponge inserts and noodles in my fluval and I try to clean them often to avoid any problems. I used to use peat media in it as well but its expensive and kindof pointless with all the water changes that I do. If you have any suggestions for me on a filter I could use I would appreciate it!!
-Ryan

[Nightowl]

Ryan, it seems your filter choices are a bit limited. One option would be to double up the hydro sponges(they are stackable) and run one pair of them with a small rio powerhead (say a 1400) which connect directly to the hydro prefilter elbows,btw. You would be combining a hydro sponge or two w/ a hydro pf top, so to speak. I ran my 125 w/ two #5 coarse sponges(for pond prefilters..... might be discontinued) and an Ovation power head as the main filter when the tank had Africans in it for 3 years...it worked great!! water was always clear, and I wasn't manic about waterchanges either. Also, I'm not really anti canister, just anti fluval. Just replaced ANOTHER ONE at work yeaterday w/ a Via Aqua 750. which has an impressive media chamber(7.5 L I believe), divided into 3 levels. I used almost 3 levels of bio-stuff from the deceased Fluval to fill just the middle chamber of the Via. But my favorite canister (going out on a limb again, as any good owl would) is the Pennplax cascade. Its a no BS, easy to hook up, easy to prime, 3 year manufact. warranty filter, and powerful but has flow valves and can be run lower w/o damage to motor. Yeah, if your power goes out for long its no better than other canisters, but I rate it as good as eheim at a lower price. The problem I guess is finding one for sale... not in bigalsonline or that fish place last I checked. I have sold about 60 of them in last 7 months, and the only ones that came back were broken by customers(one guy used a wrench to tighten the clamps). Everything about the fluvals is BS. They are the only filter with a detachable siphon tube that can just fall into the tank if you're cleaning the glass, etc. Then you have to reprime with ...what..that little plunger w/ the kids toy gun rubber dart attached to it? It also has a needle valve, which gets clogged on the intake line and leaks anyway when you detach the fittings! But the main thing I have mildly tried to warn people about is that at some point the base seems to warp, the head no longer fits and the filter leaks(and a new gasket does NOT help), and your tank empties to below intake strainer level. I could go on but what's the point? Anyway, in case you're curious, a cascade 1000 sells for $89.99(plus 8.75% sales tax in these parts). It is about the size of a 404. They make two larger sizes that have a bigger motor & internal volume, 1200 & 1500 which sell for 129.99 & 149.99. Anyway, hth and good luck..... J(Nightowl) :vanish:

[Mistakes R Crucial]

I've just bought an Eheim 2217 for my 6x2x2, do I still need to pre filter as I've noticed it has 3 filter pads inside the canister, one for coarse stuff, one for fine and the other is a carbon filter that apparently takes chemicals (and medication) out of the water.
NB

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes, you do . The whole point of the prefilter is to keep food and feces from ever entering the cannister. Fish produce plenty of disolved waste (ammonia)for your filter to convert to nitrAte.

Discus are messy eaters and big poopers. Much different than a tank of smaller cichlids or tetras. Your internal sponges would rapidly fill with these waste products. Why have them rot in the cannister if you can rinse them down the sink?

[barron]

Hi

I bought a pre filter from Jehmco.com, real happy cost $6.50.

$1.89 for a replacement sponge, comes with all connections fit .25" .50" .75" 1.0" o.d. pipes. About 6 inches long and 3 inches in dia.

The regular car sponge nearly killed my filter twice, they were clean, it seems like they sucked inward for reasons
unknown.

I use a can and the suction may have been to great maybe.

These pre-filters have a plastic insert to prevent this from happening. Also they will grow bacteria same as the air sponge.

Barron 8)

[outlawpc]

Having read all the threads in this discussion, I'm not sure this fix is for every type of filter arrangement. For the moment let us just consider hang on the back power filters.

I am currently using a Penn-Plax 100 gph on a 29 gal tank. It is equiped with a prefilter insert and a bio-media insert.

Rinsing the pre-filter out takes only a few seconds. My hands are never in the tank (who knows where they may have been :)

The pre-filter is replaced once a week. My cost about $2 (insignificant compared to everything else I spend my money on).

Other than for discus fry, the sponge attached to the take-up tube is just a place that will eventually cause a problem. . . maybe not for all you "got to do it every day, twice a day, three times a day" folks, but to the average "gee I'll do it tomorrow" folk (yes, they are able to keep discus, even with this disability).

Again, before anyone jumps all over this comment. . . remember it applied to one type of power-filter and it was not an Aqua-Clear.

[Nightowl]

Hey Outlaw, how's it going?? I posted a few times in this thread a while ago. I'm not familiar w/ the filter you mention, it doesn't sound like the newer Pennplax cascades(?), but anything inside a filter cannot be termed a prefilter. As far as cleaning prefilters, and I use the Hydrosponge types, I pretty much clean them as needed....certainly not everyday. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this group. Yes, in theory maybe I should clean them every day, but w/ 21 tanks and fulltime job at LFS its already a short putt to the looney bin w/ fishtank maintainance!!!! I clean them about every 10-12 days and replace them when they lose their shape(like an old pair of sneakers) later, J.T.

[outlawpc]

Hey Night Owl, I think I figured out where you get your handle :)

Don't take this the wrong way, but. . . who determined that a pre-filter could not be part of a filtering device?

::)

[Nightowl]

If we dare to generalize, anything located inside the filter housing is usually referred to as media... something on outside of siphon that water passes through before entering filter housing is referred to as a p.f.....no biggy either way..(its in the new filter rule book, didn't you know?) ;D later, J.T.

[outlawpc]

Ahhhhh. . . the old pre-filter/filter rule book, now that explains it :)

How could I possibly have been so wrong?

[Smokey]

To everyone ... the idea of a pre-filter "sponge" is without question!!!.
A pre-filter sponge is esecentual .. for the life of the bio-filters.

Carol and others have a good idea ... HOWEVER .... why not use a foam that has been developed percisley for such an operation ??.

Refering to the "AC 500 FOAM" . iT WAS DEVELOPED AND MANUFACTURED FOR EXACTLY THIS PURPOSE .

Smokey.

[Smokey]

A Fluval internal and the Ehiem internal; the AC; the others all use the similar foam.

I design and build filters -- all use a minium 3 - #500 FOAMS. Larger filters ues 6 to 9 #500 foams. Supplemented with a layer of finer foams.

Think of your filtration system as , WELL - A FILTER. not an accessary , not a oxygen / carbin dioxide exchanger.
BUT - a material that "CLEANS AND PURAFIES THE WATER !

In Nature - a sand bar; a dense mass of vegitation, a huge array of substances that help to hold detrous and change the chemical makeup of the water.

A simple pre-filter does wonders for a tank. I know from expierence.

Smokey

[Smokey]

Does any one else have any thoughts??

[outlawpc]

Here is the situation: 125 gal AG with two aquaclear 500's plus addition two sponge 80's for eight (8) discus.

Here is the question: If you are using sponge flters inside the tank for biological filtration and aquaclears outside the tank for mechanical filtration would you need to use the pre-filters as discussed?

No argument that pre-filters on the intakes of the aquaclears would be beneficial, except the intakes are set deep into the tank.

What do you all think?

[Carol_Roberts]

Are you going to rinse out the AC 500's every couple of days? Otherwise all the uneaten food and feces will just collect in the filter box day after day. Probably better to not have the Aqua Clears and just rely on the airdriven sponge filters

[outlawpc]

Carol:

Does not the same thing happen to the sponge filters as to the aquaclears? The debris will accummulate in the sponge filters as well?

As an added note: I do siphon debris off the bottom everyday during the WCs (15 to 20% daily).

I'd be interested in your take on this. Thanks!

Jim

[Smokey]

Jim-: might I suggest a method I have used, in the past.

Since you say you are running two A/C 500's:>
Dedicate one of the A/C for mechinacal filteration, only.

Instal a long lenght of plactic hose to it's p/u tube. and place the lenght of tubing /with guard] in the tank - place it where the solid waste accumulates .. Now you have a movable waste pick up line. You will be able to move the plastic hose to where every the waste is .... and then clean the 500-foam.
The tubing will "NOT" cause harm to the motor on the A/C 500. It is just an extension.

The second A/C 500, I might suggest. run as a bio-filter. Instal a pre-filter foam on its p/u tube .. to help maintaine its function.

HTH...

Smokey

[Carol_Roberts]

The air driven sponge filters do pick up some debris, but are not as strong as the AC 500. Air driven sponge filters should be rinsed out in chlorine free water when dirty. Prefilters on the water intake of the AC 500 should be rinsed every day or two also.

[outlawpc]

Carol:

I recall you mentioning in an earlier post that your aquaclear pick-ups are very short, making it convenient to remove the pre-filter with the help of a cup to catch any wayward debris.

Mine are about halfway into the tank and would be difficult to remove a pre-filter without fouling the tank. Any thoughts on this or my comment to Smokey below?

Smokey:

I'm also running sponge filters in addition to the aquaclears, which are the main source of biological filtration.
My thoughts are to rinse the aquaclears a couple times a week and the sponges (alternatively) once a month.

Debris on the bottom is siphoned up every day with a flexible hose during water changes.

I'm wondering if all this might be a little overkill. Carol suggested maybe just using the sponges. Thoughts?

[Carol_Roberts]

Most of my discus tanks have the extension intake (that comes in the box) My pre-filters slip right off.

[outlawpc]

Carol:

My extension tube is a double length (that came in the box). There are two lengths with pointy ends that fit into each other. Never quite understood why it was just not one extension tube that fit into the tube with the pointy end. . . (have I begun to sound like an idiot yet :-)

I do have pre-filters for the tubes (Eheim brand), just have not put them on. In any case I would have to reach my arm about halfway into the tank to pull them off and then would not the debris that they have collect float all over the tank?

I think I need to go take my medications. . . LOL

[RyanH]

when I am doing my water changes, I always put the my end right on the pre-filter sponge and syphon all crap off of it. That way I do not have to reach my arms into the tank and remove it or make a mess of the tank from the loose debris. I turn off the filter first ofcourse. :)

[outlawpc]

Why do you turn the filter off?

[Carol_Roberts]

I wear sleevless shirts and still get wet during water changes, lol.

Turn the water off prior to removing the prefilter. Slip the cup under the prefilter. Push the sponge into the cup and lift straight out of the tank. A little may fall off to siphon out.

[outlawpc]

I am trying to picture this in my mind. . . sleeveless shirt. . .

OK, I'll get serious. . . I am going to assume that the cup is under-water, because that is where my pre-filter would be.

Right? Wrong?

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes, the cup is under water, just below the sponge on the end of the water intake tube.

[kennajo]

I discovered that the pink sponge hair rollers I had worked as and pre filter as well. Just thought I would pass that along so if anyone has those laying around they can used them too!

[Carol_Roberts]

Good tip ;D

[kennajo]

TY. :D I was tying to find something at the LFS and the home improvement store but came up with nothing until I thought of those once I had gotten home.

[Amadhunter]

Here's one of mine, cheap stuff, easy to fit to the uptake. Got the stuff at Wal Mart in the section for window unit ac stuff. It's the insulation you shove between the unit and the window pane.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com//attachments/Cheapfilter2.jpg

This is what it looks like in the pkg.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//attachments/Mvc-007s.jpg

[Carol_Roberts]

That looks like it works really good ;D

here is a picture of the blue ones I use on a small aqua clear

[jules]

Should there be any brownish looking mulm inside the Aquaclear when you have a prefilter?
I have been cleaning the pre-filter every water change and the inside of the Aquaclear every week.

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes, the sponges will still have tan bits of fine particles and bacteria. You still have to rinse the internal filters, but there will be much less to rinse away with the prefilter in place. You will see tan water come out of the sponges when rinsed. I rinse until the water is clear

[jules]

Thank you Carol - I wasn't certain if my prefilter was working properly.
I read you clean the interior of your AC about every 6 weeks.

[M0oN]

Well after getting completely fed up with how ugly a car sponge looks over my prefilter, not to mention the fact that it reduces my flow rate by half I went on a mission to the local fish store to try and find somthing that would not only look better but allow the intended flow rate of my AquaClear 500's to go through.

I think I may have found the perfect solution, a while back when I kept other cichlids that enjoyed a good flow rate I converted a dedicated powerhead into a filter/water polisher using an "AquaClear Quick Filter" these neat little peices of plastic have an external housing with very very fine pore filter floss/sponge inside and then an internal plastic housing to keep the sponge from collapsing into itself, thus giving the intended flow rate.

I took one home and opened up the plastic housing, removed the internal plastic tube and broke it in half, then slipped the internal tube back down into the filter floss.

As luck would have it the length of these quick filter's is exactly the length of where the joint between the two pre-filters on an AquaClear 500 come together for the extension, not only that, but the extra width in the place where the two come together is a perfect fit for the quick filter...

I'm getting optimum flow rate out of my filters now, the sponge on the quick filter is incredibly fine pored AND it looks a hell of a lot better then a car sponge ever has.

Here's a picture of the final outcome to get an idea of what I'm talking about, these things are fairly cheap too, got mine at Petsmart for 5.99 a peice, I'm sure they're even less expensive through online orders...enjoy and hope this helps anyone else who finds the sponges to be a giant eye sore :)

Jason

http://www.fish-forum.com/images/upload/prefilter.jpg

[Carol_Roberts]

That looks pretty interesting - does it pull off easily?
Is this it?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4638&D=aquaclear%20quick%2 0filter&R=11447&Ntt=aquaclear%20quick%20filter&Ntk =All&Dx=mode+matchallany&Ntx=mode+matchallany&Np=1 &N=0&Nty=1

[M0oN]

Yes Carol, that's it and it pulls off very very easily, there's about a 1-2 mm gap between the intake and the quick filter housing.

Works absolutely superb and the best thing is they're fairly common in the US :) I couldn't find the fluval foam sleeves that Iceskater uses for the life of me, which lead me to these.

I'll probably try and find some sort of gasket to seal up the gap between the intake and the housing just for the peace of mind, although I don't think it's very necessary.

Also, replacement filter pads are sold seperately from the actual plastic housing in packs of 2 and are extremely cheap, somthing like $2.99 and whatever they're made out of is incredibly durable.

I'd really suggest looking into it if you've got the extra money. :)

[jules]

I've been using the Elite Sponge Filter Replacements. $6.99 Canadian for 2 at Big Al's Shop. Seems to be lasting quite a while.

I think you are overstating the amount of gunk in the canister or HOB filter. Either that or you are feeding WAY too much. I have used both and with a once a month cleaning and NO prefilter, there is some dirt of course, but not a tremendous amount. I like the fact that the non-prefiltered end captures larger particles of dirt so the tank is cleaner most of the time, plus the monthly cleaning get the dirt out when done anyway. Further, if you are doing daily clean-up as we all seem to do, there isn't much dirt left to accumulate in the filter anyway. Also, you have to consider that the dirt has to go someplace and it is all over the pre-filter decomposing away. As you can tell by now, I am of the belief that the simplest way is the best way, we make so much extra work for ourselves when we can better spend time enjoying and watching out discus.

[Carol_Roberts]

Beefheart and brine shrimp are the biggest polluters of filters.
If you allow them to decompose inside the filter box you are asking for trouble.

[M0oN]

MSDiscus, no offense but you're making a big deal out of somthing you have yet to try and prove yourself.

I clean my pre-filters on a daily basis and find a ton of black fecal matter that breaks up too small to sink as well as beef heart and all kinds of other things.

I started out without using them and had a hexamita outbreak because of it, in my opinion they are the safest way to go outside of using sponge filters.

OK, but you have no scientific proof that lack of prefilters caused anything. You are assuming based on circumstantial information. There is a lot of hearsay and speculation on here.

[M0oN]

OK, but you have no scientific proof that lack of prefilters caused anything. You are assuming based on circumstantial information. There is a lot of hearsay and speculation on here.


I know that's what it was from, I did not have the problem with using sponges over the prefilters for months beforehand and haven't had the problem for months on end afterwards. It's best for beginners to start out with methods that have been proven to work for the general population of hobbyists, after getting acquanted with the care discus need they can experiment with their own methods.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hearsay and speculation?
My opinions are based on years of practise, observation and experience.
What are your opinions based on?

my ideas are based on the experience of a breeder of 40 plus years, just because it isn't my own experience does mean it is less valid. I know this breeder since 1980 and his results speak for itself. Besides, I didn't say your method was bad or wouldn't work, my premise was to achieve the best result without all the water changing and water storing and conditioning. I am not just hoping this will work, I am providing proof that it does work and stands the test of time. Please don't take it as a slight that I am suggesting that ways other then the ones proposed here may work, I have no rooting interested against the ways people here do it and are successful, I am merely trying to find another way that will also work and save some time/work. I know this goes against the common logic, but it is healthy to question things once in a while and not just tow the party line just because thats one way it works, it loses the eyes to other ways. If we didn't question the notion that the earth was flat..................

[brew1]

I run PF sponges on my Aquaclears that were originally intended for use as a pre-filters on pond pumps, works great and simply slips on/off for easy cleaning.

I like the idea for using the cup under the PF when removing to catch some of the debris.

The PF certainly cuts down on the amount of crap that builds up inside the Aquaclear which cuts down on the frequency of Aquaclear cleanings. I still find that the Aquaclear needs to be cleaned every other week.

[outlawpc]

Well, I see that the PF issue continues to be a heated discussion :-)

I don't always agree with Carol, however she is full of good advice. In particular for a new discus keeper who probably needs all the help they can get.

I can also see where MSDiscus is coming from. Once you find that you can successfully keep Discus it only makes sense to explore ways that will reduce the maintenance.

IMHO much may depend on the type/size of tank(s) you may be using, among a number of other considerations. My situation may not be the most common based on all these factors, but here they are:

125 gal AG with 3 sponge filters and a 500 Aquaclear. . . no pre-filters. Bare bottom tank with 2 large ceramic logs that provide a bit of security for the Discus. There are 13 Discus that call this home.

Two of the sponge filters are placed in the area that the fish spend 95% of their time, the 3rd sponge filter is placed in the middle of the tank, and the Aquaclear is placed on the opposite end.

I do not store water, but go directly from a hot/cold faucet via a drinking water approved hose. . . and replace about 30% of the water per day by siphoning the debris off of the bottom and adding Prime during the filling process (another subject under hot debate).

Helping to make the water changes easier is having the siphoned water go directly into a sewer drain with a contraption that I created so I did not have to lug the siphoned water (I'm getting weak in my old age :-)

The filters are cleaned on a rotating basis once each month in water that has been removed from the tank.

I am not making a recommendation to anyone to use this method, however the results of this set-up works extremely well for me under my conditions and results in a minimum of maintenance effort and time. The Discus seem to like it and enjoy swimming under the in-coming new water.

So, if you are a newbie to the hobby you might want to take Carol's advice. However, for those of you who have found success using different or alternative means of keeping our little friends (yes, I do talk to my fish :-) , you benefit all of us by providing this information. Of course we get back to the fact there are many things to consider, not all of which I have mentioned.

Quite the diplomat outlawpc,

You express all the points that I am trying to say. I agree that each situation dictates the proper regimen, and I can see how it would be best for newbies to err on the side of caution. I have beaten this horse to death by now so I will stop posting on this topic, although I must say I learned a lot from it, and that it the point of a forum discussion after all? A forum is not worthwhile if everyone just agrees and maintains the status quo, gotta break a few eggs sometimes to keep it fresh and interesting. I just get doubtful over self proclaimed "experts" that offer their ideal situation as the best and only one.....

[ronrca]

I just get doubtful over self proclaimed "experts" that offer their ideal situation as the best and only one..... Now, now! No one is 'self proclaiming' to be experts. Have you ever thought of the word 'expert' and perhaps how it is derived? Expert comes from experience! Given that, all we are doing is passing our 'experience' along that we have personnally done. We know what happens with newbies when they start because to become an 'expert', we needed to make the experience which means we started as a newbie! ;)

Hi Ronrca,

I hear ya but I mean that there are some people with only several months of experience that act like they know it all and wind up misleading newbies, and I don't mean to insinuate that they do it on purpose, I'm sure they think they are helping. That is the one drawback of forums when you are new and don't know who is who.

[Carol_Roberts]

Thank you Seth and Welcome to Simply Discus :wave:

All you need is love.........


8)

I agree Seth,

I apologize too but I just got angry for being accused of attacking someone when its not the case at all, plus I think she is a smart, dedicated person. I didn't want to be so harsh, I get too passionate, as we all saw. :P The fact is I've learned so much from this thread and several others on here by asking questions that invoke intense response. I think its good and makes things more interesting then the typical questions that are asked over and over to death. So if I offended anyone I sincerely appologize (except for offending Nightowl, thats just fun and he lets me, plus I spend all my money at his store). I will also delete the post before this one, I don't want to be a flame thrower.

[SSrowr]

Lol, deleted my posts; felt they didn't actually have anything to do with pre-filters, believe it or not! MS, sorry again for any haste in my judgement :)

~Seth~

Seth,

We both got hot headed, better just focus on caring for our fish, they are very demanding after all!!! :)

[mattrox]

This is the sponge I use. It is for a Rena. I run a Fluval 101 canister and a Rena submersible power filter.

The bloodworms and flakes had been fed to the fish a few minutes prior to the photo being taken. It already found its way to the filter inlet. The fish also pick the food off the sponge. Waste not, want not.

[SSrowr]

Recently I saw the pre-filter that M0on uses at the LFS. It was a resonable price. When setting up my tank, I will be sure to buy one, and see how it works.

M0on, you said something about breaking the inner plastic piece in half or something? Can you explain what you mean, and possible elaborate?

Thanks alot-
Seth

[M0oN]

Seth, the inner plastic peice has a joint in the middle, you need to split it apart at that joint (it's designed to pull apart) and then cut out the bottom of one of the joints so that it essentially becomes one giant joint when you put them back together, then slide it over the pre filter tube.

[kalawai]

Hi,
I'm still new to this forum--but I use a pre-filter on my Eheim Canister and have very good results with it.
I just took a filter sponge from one of my old HOB Aqua-clear that was not used from a Nano-reef that I run empty. It works like a charm and I did'nt have to toss it out---even better. :D
As far as cleaning the pre-filter--I do it once a week and the canister gets a cleaning once every two weeks. I'm never sure about how much cleaning is ok? If anyone has any thought about this--I would really appreciate their commit.

[Milleruszk]

I found the perfect prefilter in Home Depot. It is a Frost King Air Conditioner weatherseal. This sponge is 2 1/4" x 2 1/4" by 42". One of these will last you a long time. You could probably do 15-20 filters with one of them. Works great! and is Cheap!

Tom :)

[Smokey]

I recomend the old stand by ... an A/C foam. Cheap and effective. [ for large pieces fof debre].

A prefiler is just that... to pre-filter the water before it goes into the main filter media. Nothing hi-tech in that. lol.....

Smokey

[kelseygirl]

I'm resurrecting this one because I just got back from Home Depot, trying to find Milleruszk's Frost King Air cond. weatherseal. NO ONE knew what I was talking about...finally found someone to help me. Turns out our store here doesn't carry Frost King. But he finally helped me find another brand the same dimensions:
md Specialty (brand name) Air Conditioner Weatherstrip in the weatherstripping dept. 2 1/4 X 2 1/4 X 42. Thanks for the tip. Janice ;)

[Milleruszk]

Janice,

I'm not surprised that no one at Home Depot knew what you were talking about. You were lucky to get someone to help you. Usually, if you have a question at Home Depot, the sales help runs like cockroaches when the lights are turned on! LOL. Sounds like your product is the same. Good Luck!

Tom :)

[Lauren]

Hrm this looks farmilar, I wonder if these are like the blue prefilter Carol got for her fluval?
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/F40/Class/Fish%20Supplies%20Mechanical%20Media/T1/F40%200221%200160/Itemdy00.aspx

[Carol_Roberts]

No, those are different - the opening is looks larger

[brandy]

I experimented with different prefilter sponges on my AC500. The ones with fine pores resulted in the filters running loud. I have had good luck using these. Just tie a piece of string around it close to one end to close off the hole.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4635&Ne=40000&R=12661&Nao= 18&N=2004+22779
It is the replacement powerhead sponge on the bottom of the page.

[Anonapersona]

Chunk foam from BigAl'sOnline 3"x5"x12", $5, can be cut into whatever size you want.

I've nibbled some into cylnders, but next time I'll be lazy ad keep it square. A deep X with a steak knife down the middle to get a hole for the filter tube, not too deep, and it is done. No worries about possible contaminants that might not be fish safe -- worth a buck or two to me.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/search/?type=catalog&method=all&collection=sitebuilder%2F catalog3-1&keywords1=8138

[nirfun]

Here is mine:


http://grm.m.walla.co.il/briefcase/00f3/n/i/r/f/u/n/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/r/200406221206545746/200406221213414225/Photo002.jpg

http://grm.m.walla.co.il/briefcase/00f3/n/i/r/f/u/n/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/@/r/200406221206545746/200406221213394204/Photo001.jpg

Is it Okay?

[Carol_Roberts]

Looks good to me ;D

[United21Soccer]

I cut my own from cheap sponge, and the next day i got cloudy water and a sponge that was deteriorating! When i went to take it off, it fell apart to the touch >:(

[cyberguyz]

great advice. I took one of the sponge filter inserts, and slit it according to your instructions, and it works like a charm.

[jules]

I am not sure if I should post here or in breeding.
Currently the parents have moved the wrigglers onto the foam prefilter (an AQ Foam Insert); has anyone every had fry or wrigglers getting stuck?

[Carol_Roberts]

Fry less than 10 - 14 days old are not strong enough to swim away from the prefilter and will die

[jules]

What would you suggest? Thank you Carol. :)

[Howie_W]

Hi Jules,

The best thing to do is have something along the lines of a Hydro Sponge, or the Azoo sponge filters set-up...these are better suited for fry.

Power filters don't work well in a breeding tank due to the amount of suction they use.

Howie

[babyjess210]

Carol
Is it harmful to the fish if you pull the prefilter off first and all the junk fall to the bottom of the tank and gets siphon out right away doing a water change?

[jules]

I took the sponge off and moved it around in the tank - the wrigglers came out and the parents promptly collected them and relocated them. I covered the prefilter with a nylon stocking. Thank goodness the parents like me. ;)

Babyjess: I usually put a little container under my pre filter before I pull it off - the majority of junk goes in the container.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi BabyJess:
AS long as you keep it out of the filter box and vacuum it up it's fine ;D

Hi Jules:
I agree with Howie and only use airdriven sponge filters intanks with fry. Once they are about 3 weeks old you can run an aqua clear type filter.

[kelseygirl]

Hmmmm....in reference to the fry, will the idea of the prefilter sponge and the nylon covering work? I'm asking because my pair just spawned, but the eggs were eaten. I'm hoping they'll try again soon. 2 years ago they actually had some fry make it to 2 weeks. I thought they were eating them, but maybe it was the Emperor filter. IF we get to that place I'd rather not have to replace the filter, so if the nylon would do the trick I'd like to know. I learned about the prefilter sponge on this very thread months ago. It's a good one!!! Thanks, Janice

[Howie_W]

Hi Janice,

Hydro type sponges are very inexpensive and work best. If you use a wet/dry hang over-the-back filter, it can help if you use a prefilter sponge that has very condensed pores like the azoo sponges which are designed for fry. At the same time you'd have to keep the intake flow at the lowest setting. The same would be true even if you place a stocking over it.

The problems with this are that you'd be reducing the oxygen level that your bacteria need, and you will also still have a source that will draw the fry towards it.

Howie

[kelseygirl]

Thanks Howie. I'm one of those people that figures that there HAS to be a way to make something work. I really like my Emperor 400. I don't want to take it off and I always have kept it on the lowest level (discus not liking heavy currants,etc.). So how about this...what if I do the stocking over the prefilter sponge on the intake tube, keeping it on low. (I will check into the azoo sponge you mentioned.) AND add a hydrosponge for filtration? I'm working on a low budget plan here, as well as SMALL operation ( only 2 tanks...one discus pair, and some corys and tetras). Of course, ALL of this is dependent on the theory that I MIGHT have fry at some point. However, I did get the last batch 2 years ago to make it to 2 weeks. So I know that it is a possibility, considering that they've finally spawned again. Then there's the issue about fry growing up which means that I'd have to set up another tank anyway for the young...which might be a good place for the Emperor. OK, so how many hydro sponge filters do I need for a 45 gal. tank and do you have any particular types, brands, and sources to suggest. ????????? Are you guys trying to suck me into all this craziness???????????!!! ;DThanks for the replies. Janice

[kelseygirl]

Forgot to mention, the prefilter sponge I use is refrigerator weather stripping. It has really tiny pores and I've noticed that all debris sits on it. My filter media is VERY clean when I change it. I'm thinking that the nylon over it would do the trick. But there may be something I'm missing here. Thank you.

[Carol_Roberts]

What you are missing is the fry will be stuck to the prefilter sponge no matter how small the pores are - no matter if their is a nylon stocking over it. The current (rushing into the filter) is too strong for the babies to escape.

I tried an aqua clear 150 on low with a fine pore prefilter sponge. The result was half a batch of fry stuck to the prefilter. When I turned off the filter the fry floated to the bottom of the tank dead.

If you really want to experiment and raise babies start cycling an airdriven sponge filter in your existing tank. After 2 or 3 weeks you can move the filter and pair into their own 29 gallon bare bottom tank (no corys, etc)

[kelseygirl]

Thanks Carol. I get it. The pair is by themselves in the 45 gal. No other fish. My tetras and corys are in another tank. I guess it is decision and expansion time. :)

Janice

[oodi]

I guess it is decision and expansion time.


Janice,

That's the nature of the beast! It keeps growing and growing and growing... :D

Judi
:)

[Willie]

Janice;

There is no truth to "discus not liking strong currents". I run powerheads, sometimes multiple powerheads, in my tanks. The more aeration they get, the better they grow.

Willie

[kelseygirl]

Sigh....I keep finding that the rule is that there are no rules. (Not really.) But there is so much conflicting info. I know I have to sort it out and see what works for me and my fish and our conditions. Thanks for everyone's help.

PS I've wondered about the "currents" thing, cuz I put a mini jet aerator at the other end of their tank for some extra aeration when I was nursing her back to health, and I SWEAR I've seen her "playing" in front of it!!!

[oodi]

Janice,

I've seen my discus do the same thing. Just remember what Carol previously said... fry cannot handle the current. IMO, an air driven sponge is the best option for a breeding tank.

Judi
:)

[jules]

I set up an air driven uncycled sponge in the tank.
I'll have to stick to the nylon stocking idea for now.
I don't think I will have much success with this batch; but the parents are learning as a few did attach for the first time.

[Carol_Roberts]

Willie is correct - Fish over 3 weeks old do fine in current. I'm only talking about fry that are too little to escape the prefilter sponge on an aqua clear.

[thebaglady]

I've just hatched some Rainbowfish fry from Gary Lange. They're thriving in a sponge filter environment that's driven by an air pump set on very low right now.

I think all fry like a slight current, but for some, its overwhelming if it's too much when they're very small. If the air was high on this tank, it would drown them for what their small bodies could withstand!!

Oliver's video (at the ACA) was pretty cool though. The wild babies stay like glue with their parents, despite the current.

Jen K.

[thebaglady]

the baby RB fish eat green water and APR at this point...they're that small.

[Howie_W]

Thanks Carol. I get it. The pair is by themselves in the 45 gal. No other fish. My tetras and corys are in another tank. I guess it is decision and expansion time. :)

Janice


Hi Janice,

Yes...that's the ticket! :)

We're talking here about what is best for newly hatched fry; an air driven sponge. Nothing wrong with having good aeration in a discus tank.

Howie

[babyjess210]

I can't find them anymore >:( It was for a small Fluval internal filter I used the #2 size.


Carol
Are these the fluval blue filter you had on your Aquaclear???

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/F38/Class/Fish+Supplies+Biological+Media/T1/F38+0171+0180/Itemdy00.aspx

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes, they are. A friend located some for me awhile back so I have some in reserve now ;D

[utiliy]

any regular car wash sponge?

[Carol_Roberts]

Any fine pore sponge that does not contain fungicide, bacteriacide, soap or perfume

[maestro]

A couple of q's, apologies is this has been asked ihavent read through all teh pages

Does using a prefilter sponge have an impact on the flow rate of an external?

If using a prefilter sponge should i still keep the internal mechanical sponges at the bottom of my eheim or should i just fill it up with biomedia?

many thanks

[Carol_Roberts]

A couple of q's, apologies is this has been asked ihavent read through all teh pages

Does using a prefilter sponge have an impact on the flow rate of an external?

If using a prefilter sponge should i still keep the internal mechanical sponges at the bottom of my eheim or should i just fill it up with biomedia?

many thanksA prefilter sponge may slow the flow rate slightly. Keep all the sponges in the eheim. They are easy to rinse and catch what the prefilter misses.

[GrillMaster]

Hi all.....Great forum!! Great thread Carol. :thumbsup:

With myself bein a newcomber, I have been doin alot of readin...This post was a great tip.......and I got an emperor 400 :( I'll have to put a whole carwash sponge around that strainer!! An they dont make em in black! :p

[wolfbane]

I found another way to keep the gunk from floating around when you remove the pre-filter sponge! instead of a cup, I use a catfish net, it has a tight woven fabric that keeps all the gunk contained. They are white, not green like the regular nets. just get one big enough for the filter sponge, ease it up from underneath, push the sponge down into the net, and there ya go, into the bucket for a rinse !
Debbie

[fish_maniac]

Hi Debbie,
That is a good tips. I will looks for the white net!Thank you for sharing it.

Kam

[ricmod]

Hi All:
This is what I use from AuacCave pricie $6.45 each. Comes with diff. adapter depending on you size intake tube.

Ricmod

[Alight]

You'd think all has been said by now. But I have a slightly different solution that may also be useful for the fry question.

I just use the replacement sponges from typical air driven sponge filters like here--http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3936&ref=3055&subref=AC&N=2004+113425

The will fit on any filter dip tube, albeit with some tugging for the larger diameter dip tubes (wet the sponges first). Cap the hole at the bottom with a bit of sponge cut from the sponge up higher.

OK, this is the adaptation that will help complaints of low flow, and too much suction.

I put holes in the dip tube extension by using a large diameter nail heated on my stove (use pliers and gloves so you don't get burned). The nail melts the holes nicely and makes smooth holes. I put lots in, at least half way up the dip tube. Then I simply pull enough replacement sponges up the dip tube to cover all of the holes. Makes one nice long prefilter sponge.

What this does is spreads out the incoming water flow, so there is not much suction on any one part of the sponge. For fry, you'd still have to use the smallest power filter available for your tank size and turn down the flow to keep the fry from being stuck to the filter, but it can be done.

This solution also solves any reduced filter flow rates, even with the very small pore size of these sponge filters.

To clean, I simply pull off the whole dip tube extension, put it in the same bucket you all are using, and squeeze the sponges vigorously to get rid of all of the black gunk.

Seems to be cheap, very good prefiltration ( my AC filter sponges stay very, very clean) and keeps good biofilter bacteria, even in the prefilter sponges that can be transfered to another tank (quaranteen, breeding tank) for an instantly cycled tank.

[bennyblanco]

check this item out on ebay just type it in Baby-Fish-Saver-Pre-Filter

[babypenguin]

i just bought one prefilter sponge specially designed for the water intake tube in melbourne, australia.

it does make the filter much cleaner.:angel:

[lhforbes12]

Sorry if this was already mentioned (I didn't feel like reading the whole thread) but http://www.jehmco.com/ sells sponge pre-filters at reasonable prices.

[dixiedog]

check this item out on ebay just type it in Baby-Fish-Saver-Pre-Filter

Just bid on a pair. Have you actually tried these?

If they look good I'll use two of them in the manner Alight suggests above.

[Apistomaster]

I do use sponge pre-filters in fry tanks but not for fish 25 cent size and up. I make pre-filters out of empty SeaChem 250ml clear plastic containers by drilling/melting about 100- 1/8" holes in them. Then drill a hole in the lid just large enough for your filter's intake tube to fit snugly and allow the tube to reach the bottom of the clear container. Then cut blue bonded filter pad to make a piece about 8-10"x4-1/2" which I wrap around the intake tube section that extends through the lid, then screw the lid/intake tube/rolled filter pad back on the perforated jar and attach back on the filter intake tube. This makes a very effective mechanical prefilter that is not subject to rapid clogging and is completely reusable and easily cleaned. I use this mostly on Aquaclear filters. I also replace the AquaClear sponge with another cut-to-fit Blue Bonded pad and retain the sintered glass bio-media. This allows more room for chemical filter media,too. Best of all is the long lasting high flow rate and very clear water.
Larry Waybright

[seanyuki]

If you have a hang on the back power filter like an Aqua Clear or a canister filter you need a prefilter sponge on the water intake tube.

Picture bits of uneaten beefheat and discus poop floating about in your aquarium. If it's sucked into the filter it just sits there decomposing. Bacteria love it! And you are running every dop of water through it three times an hour . . . or more.

Sponge prefilters trap food particles and feces before they can enter the filter. You pull them off at each water change and vigorously rinse all the gunk off. Rinse them hard . . . these are mechanical filters. The good bacteria for biological filtration grow on the sponges inside the filter.

Here's some pictures of the ones I use on my Aqua Clears
Hi Carol.

Just wondering are all Aquaclear inlet tubes the same size. I got the Aquaclear 20 and will it fit into Fluval 2 Foam insert?
Any suggestion for the Marineland Emperor 280 cos it's has a cage like for
the inlet tube.
Also thinking of getting some discus in the near future for a starter in a 29-30
gallons tank. How many 3'' ins fish can I put in it. Is 10 fish too many.
It's will be bare bottom tank. Please advice.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/fluval%2c2/Class//T1/F24AB+0171+0180/EDP/8317/Itemdy00.aspx

Will be going shopping tomorrow.

Cheers
Francis

[Carol_Roberts]

AC intake tubes are a couple of different sizes. The blue fluval sponge fits the larger diameter intake tube best with the inner core removed. It fits the smaller diameter intake tubes withthe inner core still in place and wedged onto the intake.

[crazie.eddie]

I use the Danner-Supreme Mag 5 prefilter sponge. This sponge is perfect fit for round intake tubes that taper. It's also closed off on one side, unlike regular prefilter sponges which are open on both sides, which will still allow detritus to be sucked up into the filter. The mag 5 prefilter sponges dont, since the only opening is where the filter intake fits in.

[Carol_Roberts]

I block the bottom of the intake prefilter sponge with another little piece of sponge :)

[swami]

i believe that Dr Foster has pre filter sponge for sale.I was browsing and accidently found it.:)

[cleaver]

would this work while trying to breed or do you need a sponge filter only thanks:D

[sheenaghb]

I just put an old small rena internal filter sponge on the intake of a fluval
external 205 and it fits perfectly:)

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

Hey can anyone help me find a good pre filter sponge that will fit an Eheim 2217 classic canister? i just set mine up about a week ago, and I'd love to avoid an overly messy filter cleaning ;)

what are you using on ur 2217? or any Eheim classic for that matter?

thanks guys!:D

-Jason-

[seanyuki]

Hi Jason,

The filter Max pre filters comes with adaptors perhaps checking with Ken(Kenfish.com) if it could be fitted into the Ehiem intake tube.

FILTER MAX PRE-FILTERS:

THIS IS GREAT FOR ANY TANK WITH A POWER FILTER.THIS GOES OVER THE INTAKE TO STOP THE FRY FROM BEING SUCKED UP. THIS ALSO MAINTAINS YOUR BIOLOGICAL FILTRATION WHEN THE MAIN FILTER IS BEING CHANGED. CAN ALSO BE USED WITH CANISTER FILTERS AND POWER HEADS. COMES IN THREE SIZES.
ATI HYDRO POND FILTERS:

THE HYDRO POND FILTER UTILIZES RETICULATED FILTER FOAM FOR HIGH FLOW RATES. IT PROVIDES BOTH MECHANICAL AND BIOLOGICAL FILTRATION. COMES IN BOTH AIR DRIVEN AND PUMP DRIVEN MODELS.
HYDRO POND #1:

THIS AIR DRIVEN FILTER IS EXCELLENT FOR TANKS OR PONDS. SIZE 4" LONG x 5 3/4 DIA.
FOR PHOTO:
HYDRO POND #2:

THIS AIR DRIVEN FILTER IS EXCELLENT FOR TANKS OR PONDS. SIZE 8" LONG x 5 3/4 DIA.
FOR PHOTO:
HYDRO POND #3:

THIS WATER PUMP DRIVEN FILTER IS EXCELENT FOR TANKS OR PONDS. CAN ALSO BE USED AS A PREFILTER. SIZE 4" LONG x 5 3/4 DIA.
$9.25 EACH
$12.95 EACH
FOR PHOTO:
$10.95 EACH
HYDRO POND #4:

THIS WATER PUMP DRIVEN FILTER IS EXCELENT FOR TANKS OR PONDS. CAN ALSO BE USED AS A PRE FILTER. SIZE 8" LONG x 5 3/4 DIA.
FOR PHOTO:
$14.50 EACH


http://www.kensfish.com/atipondandprefilters.html



Cheers
Francis:)




Hey can anyone help me find a good pre filter sponge that will fit an Eheim 2217 classic canister? i just set mine up about a week ago, and I'd love to avoid an overly messy filter cleaning ;)

what are you using on ur 2217? or any Eheim classic for that matter?

thanks guys!:D

-Jason-

[dogwood]

I have been using canister filters for a long time and go to walmart and buy those huge rolls of 100% polyester blanket stuffing that I using inside the canisters for fine floss. I also take a little bit and lightly pack into the bottom of the intake tube inside the screen.

Works great for me, takes seconds to pop off and replace. When I do my water change I just lightly pack new stuff in there and throw the old out. It also does not cause any intake restrictions and traps very fine particles. Best part is the stuff is so cheap.

[mattg]

has anyone tried tetra bio-bags with the carbon removed?

they're nice because i can get them to fit my fluval 405 and emperor 280, i just scrunch the opening up with an elastic band against the tube.

they're very easy to take off i put a small ziplock bag over them when i slip them off it works nice, no gunk in the tank.

[angel eyes]

For Store Bought:

I've found with Rena Filstar Canisters that Lustar Filter-Max III Prefilters work well over the intake tube (I use them on my xp4's).

With Aqueon brand hobs I've come to find that the Fluval Edge Prefilters fit over the intake strainer perfectly (I've used them with the 10, 20, and 30 models)!

And for filter floss I also use the Morning Glory Premium Polyester Fiberfill that comes in the 5lb boxes at Wal-mart for $9.97

[gerrard00]

I hope no one minds if I revive an old thread. I just wanted to add another benefit of a prefilter for a noob like myself...I just realized that I'm actually overfeeding, despite my best efforts. Before I added the prefilter I didn't realize how much food was being sucked in by the filter.

[tbone83]

eheim make a great pre filter sponge for there breeding filter, i guesse u can order it seperate.

[RudeDogg1]

Eheim pickup 2008 sponges are exactly the right size for the eheim installation kit (the black / grey kit)

[chriscro]

i use a prefilter but its a pain to clean i almost have to clean it every other day.

[Bud]

hey every one just thought Id share my score;suggested by this site were homedepot pond filters.Just got back and found the big 9" round ones there on sale from 30$ down to 9$.they came with 2 diff courses of sponge.Cut them up with a razor knife and they work great!Even bloodworms an flake foods stick to sides for fish to pick off and didnt slow flow of my AC110 at all1

[DiscusBR]

Hey can anyone help me find a good pre filter sponge that will fit an Eheim 2217 classic canister? i just set mine up about a week ago, and I'd love to avoid an overly messy filter cleaning ;)

what are you using on ur 2217? or any Eheim classic for that matter?

thanks guys!:D

-Jason-

Hi,

I just put together a 80g tank with a prefilter in the intake of a Eheim 2217. I chose the one that was recommended in this thread by Discus Devil (PARCS46): the Filter-Max Prefilter. If you want to see how the smaller one (I think it is Prefilter I) looks, I have a YouTube video of the tank cycling (it appears at 0:18):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTXDAYfRdiE

Mauro

[parrottbay]

i use canister :)

[krislewis3]

Thank you for the info.......I am new to discus keeping and I was confused about (pre filters) I tried to find them in my lfs to no avail because I didnt really know what I was looking for, and saw nothing with the lable of 'PRE FILTER'. I feel STUPID now that I know what it is. The moral to this story is.....Please dont assume that inexperienced persons will know what your talking about!!!

[Skip]

Thank you for the info.......I am new to discus keeping and I was confused about (pre filters) I tried to find them in my lfs to no avail because I didnt really know what I was looking for, and saw nothing with the lable of 'PRE FILTER'. I feel STUPID now that I know what it is. The moral to this story is.....Please dont assume that inexperienced persons will know what your talking about!!!

Kris..

two options.. for you to look at..
get the sponge from Aquaclear.. get it wet with water.. put it in freezer.. when frozen.. drill hole or cut out hold and place it on intake to your filter.. *i have done this for my smaller filters...*

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/A02F_1_20101230_a5e7f03f-4ead-4cbe-b58b-53fdbb3d18ad200248.jpg

OR..
get the one in the middle/yellow.. the sponge is more coarse *MAXI III* and will not clog like like smallest *MAXI I one.. *i use this on my aquaclear 110's
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143637&d=1292197373
http://www.kensfish.com/product3020.html

[-gb-]

Eheim also makes one:

http://i.imgur.com/VgUVX.jpg

[Etek]

using the max III with a fluval 405 canister. The connections don't fit..so just take out the middle and wrap around the existing intake or just buy the replacement filter. Could've save a few bucks if I knew only it wouldnt fit.

[krislewis3]

Thank you for the photo....it REALLY helps to see it. I just ordered it............

[krislewis3]

yes....I have a suggestion for that cage like inlet tube. Just take off the piece that looks like a cage.( Your inlet tube should have 2 or 3 pieces connecting to each other). You can hook up your pre-filter to the now smaller intake tube.

[Poco]

I also use Eheim prefliter on intake for AC110. It works really well.

[krislewis3]

OK WARLOCK...THIS ONE IS FOR YOU....I BOUGHT THIS VERY SAME PRE FILTER. HOWEVER, MY INTAKE TUBE IS SQUARE, AND THE ROUND CONNECTORS DONT FIT IT. I DID MANAGE TO SLIP THE SPONGE OVER THE LARGE CAGE LIKE INTAKE TUBE ON MY MARINELAND FILTER. DO YOU THINK THAT WILL SUFFICE? OR DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER SUGGESTION?
ONE MORE THING.....HOW CAN I RIG THIS TO AIR TUBING, TO CREATE A SPONGE FILTER? WOULD THAT BE REASONABLE? THANK YOU YET AGAIN.......KRIS

[ronald sherman]

hey i'm just about ready too start mty first discus tank have 4 other's tank's of fresh water bought all the nessary too setup i read many places about a prefilter and was a bit unsure exactlty how too make one surprise as i'm very mechinal my filter's on a 75 gallon will be a fluval 306 which i already own, a cascade 700 which i own and 4 the prefilter i ordered on e-bay for 25.00 a EHEIM 4004320 saw them as chep as 17.00 which i.c does fit on the intake hose can't wait till i get my first set of discus which will be in the next 2-3 wk's how is this as a pre-filter as well as my other 2 filter's also have 4 airstones too place

[DiscusBR]

hey i'm just about ready too start mty first discus tank have 4 other's tank's of fresh water bought all the nessary too setup i read many places about a prefilter and was a bit unsure exactlty how too make one surprise as i'm very mechinal my filter's on a 75 gallon will be a fluval 306 which i already own, a cascade 700 which i own and 4 the prefilter i ordered on e-bay for 25.00 a EHEIM 4004320 saw them as chep as 17.00 which i.c does fit on the intake hose can't wait till i get my first set of discus which will be in the next 2-3 wk's how is this as a pre-filter as well as my other 2 filter's also have 4 airstones too place

You wrote a long text with no punctuation marks. Very hard to follow. What is your question exactly?

[cubert]

you guys clean you're pre filters every WC im assuming?

[DiscusBR]

you guys clean you're pre filters every WC im assuming?

I clean mine once a week.

[laupao]

you guys clean you're pre filters every WC im assuming?

i do....

[Juliah09]

Never thought of this, and now I know why my husbands nitrate on his tank is high according to the pet store the other day! Thanks for the Tip!!!

[Eddie]

i do....

Ditto

[Mr_B]

I never thought of it as well, definitely going to do this to my filters this weekend.

[Eddie]

I never thought of it as well, definitely going to do this to my filters this weekend.

Yeah, I just asked if you used them on your canisters. Definitely a MUST! Now clean those filters out! LOL

[Poco]

Yeah, I just asked if you used them on your canisters. Definitely a MUST! Now clean those filters out! LOL

+1

They will have a lot of gunk in it. Do rinse it in a bucket with aquarium water.

[nomad]

I just use a hydro sponge with a plastic bottle cap in the open end for my prefilter.

[kimbo]

We use the Fluval sponges that go into the filters. We cut them in half an make a hole and stick it on. We use them especially in tanks with fry.

[discuspaul]

i do....

I do too.

[Tazalanche]

Thank you all for the excellent ideas on alternatives to the brand name pre-filters. Now to start trying various pre-filter ideas on the non-discus tank so I can find the best method for our discus dependents.

[johnny911]

thanks

[nemo24]

Thanks good read

[Tazalanche]

We tried a few generic options over the past couple months & ended up going with the Filter-Max III Pre-Filter:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+21426&pcatid=21426

[fredyx]

This is how I use it :) A word of caution, don't get lazy about cleaning the sponge otherwise you will end up with a growing up of slime in the rotor cavitiy and can lead to serious problems in the filter....
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/3185/20121118214919.jpg

[sunshine]

HELP!!!!!!!can you help.. i dont have time to read through all the information others haved posted.. action is needed now to save my fish... my discus are not doing good... they are at the top acting like they need oxygen.. they have that white/grey slim on them a little.... they are not eating....... Here is what we did... We bought 4 new ones and had 6 in our tank already. they were doing great..our old aged ones.. we changed out the whole tank..... got new Substrate black for our plants and eco system.. we use a magnum 350 filter, and also now have a bio sponge, (the grey one with a tube sticking out that blows bubbles)..... the one most fish stores have in their tanks.... we have a 90 tall...... we are doing all we can... changing water daily.. now like twice a day to keep the oxygen up........ we need help fast..... what are we doing wrong.... we didnt wait a full week to put the fish in our new tank.... UGGGG!!!!! but now the damage is done... should we move them all out to our 20 gallon hospital tank asap?????

[-gb-]

HELP!!!!!!!can you help.. i dont have time to read through all the information others haved posted.. action is needed now to save my fish... my discus are not doing good... they are at the top acting like they need oxygen.. they have that white/grey slim on them a little.... they are not eating....... Here is what we did... We bought 4 new ones and had 6 in our tank already. they were doing great..our old aged ones.. we changed out the whole tank..... got new Substrate black for our plants and eco system.. we use a magnum 350 filter, and also now have a bio sponge, (the grey one with a tube sticking out that blows bubbles)..... the one most fish stores have in their tanks.... we have a 90 tall...... we are doing all we can... changing water daily.. now like twice a day to keep the oxygen up........ we need help fast..... what are we doing wrong.... we didnt wait a full week to put the fish in our new tank.... UGGGG!!!!! but now the damage is done... should we move them all out to our 20 gallon hospital tank asap?????

Hello Sunshine, you need to start your own thread. It will be the quickest way to receive help. This thread has noting to do with your problem. I'll keep an eye for your new thread and see if I can help.

[dagray]

Marineland makes a sponge for their 660R power heads (the R is for reverse flow to be used with an undergravel filter... water sucked through sponge into power head and blown down the riser tube) I cut these in half and change the intake to the Tetra Whisper end and cut the inside of the sponge a little so I can slide it over my intakes. I also use panty hose as a pre-filter shrimp saver over the sponge. I think modifying the hydro sponge is a great idea or Steve at Angels plus sells some square sponge replacements for the hydro sponge that would work great.

Dave

[sunshine]

If you have a hang on the back power filter like an Aqua Clear or a canister filter you need a prefilter sponge on the water intake tube.

Picture bits of uneaten beefheat and discus poop floating about in your aquarium. If it's sucked into the filter it just sits there decomposing. Bacteria love it! And you are running every dop of water through it three times an hour . . . or more.

Sponge prefilters trap food particles and feces before they can enter the filter. You pull them off at each water change and vigorously rinse all the gunk off. Rinse them hard . . . these are mechanical filters. The good bacteria for biological filtration grow on the sponges inside the filter.

Here's some pictures of the ones I use on my Aqua Clears

Hi Carol,

you really swear by the AC 500, we got one and was wondering if your's hums?? our had a little humming rattling noise that is driving us nuts.... so we are wondering if its a bad one, or the vibration like a rattling noise is normal? thanks :bounce:

[0Dgreen]

Hi Carol,

you really swear by the AC 500, we got one and was wondering if your's hums?? our had a little humming rattling noise that is driving us nuts.... so we are wondering if its a bad one, or the vibration like a rattling noise is normal? thanks :bounce:

Take the lid off and see if it still rattles...i have one that rattles with the lid on it.

[sunshine]

Take the lid off and see if it still rattles...i have one that rattles with the lid on it.


we tried that... still rattles. lol..

[Fish from Philly]

Has anyone tried pre-filter on FX5? I have two in my 150 gallon discus tank and reading it is good idea to have but and would change it very frequently (probably easier to do that than to change out the canister which I plan to do every 3 months or so). I'd like to keep it looking good so would like it to be black too. Has anyone had success? I've also read the "strainer" is enough on the FX5. Can anyone comment if decreasing the flow rate by adding pre-filter effectively preventing extra gunk in the canister is better overall than not adding it? I have a school of coreys who constantly search for uneaten food in the sand but they of course poop so yeee....

Thanks!

[Elliots]

All I can say is clean the prefilter sponges often, like daily. I clean mine in tap water if I am not doing a water change. I only clean my AQ filters in tank water. (DO NOT CLEAN ALL YOUR SPONGES AND FILTERS THE SAME TIME IN TAP WATER OR YOU WILL PROBABLY UNCYCLE YOUR TANK.) I still sometimes over feed my fish I think and I clean them daily at least! I do not think adding prefilter sponges will decrease the flow rate of your filter but if they get dirty there will be a significant difference. I tried feeding beef heart for a while and sometimes my AQ 110 and AQ70 would almost stop flowing.

[Ramble]

about any sponge will work so long as it is new and doesnt have soap or chemicals in it.
I just founnd some acoustical foam laying around, cut an X in the top, poked the intake end through it, and Whala!

[blueluv]

about any sponge will work so long as it is new and doesnt have soap or chemicals in it.
I just founnd some acoustical foam laying around, cut an X in the top, poked the intake end through it, and Whala!

Acoustical foam?