Freaked out fish

[GWdiscus]

My fish are eating but anytime I come into the room they freak out and run to the corner behind a potted plant. If I stay on the far side of my desk they watch me and seem to be a little curious, but as soon as I move in they're gone again. If I do any work on the tank or even when I open the top to feed them beefheart (from the breeder) they freak out and are all in the corner. I'm new to this forum and have just recently come back to keeping discus after a sour experience about 10 years ago. I'm afraid I might be on that same path again and would like some input from anyone that might be able to help.
The following is a description of what I'm doing, if anyone seeing a problem, could you please advise. I did not lightly get back into this, I have been reading everything I could get my hands on for about 3 months now, set my 75 gal. tank up 2 months ago, cycled it, and talked to a number of people before buying a variety of 7 2.5 to 3.5 inch discus from a breeder in town. I have two sponge filters and a milinium exterior filter on a bare bottom tank except for potted plants. I have a packet in the outside filter filled with about a cup or two of fuvial peat. The water is tea stained, but the pH only went down from 7.6 to 7.4 (the pH remains constant). I also have a about 8 clay pots with a thin layer of gravel on the bottom of each pot, then the pot is filled mostly with peat, then about an inch of gravel on the top and of course the plant. I'm running 2 - 48 inch flouresant lights. I have a 29 gallon holding tank that is kept at the same temperature as the big tank, 86 degrees F. The holding tank also has an outside filter with a packet of peat at the same pH. I change 20% of the water about every 4 days. I do not treat the water with anything because it sits for 4 days. Every 18 hours +/- I'll siphen the waste and any uneaten food out of the big fish tank. The breeder I bought my fish from lives only a few miles from me and on the same city water. He does nothing to the water other than to remove the chlorine, he does a 20% water change once a week and has wonderful success. When I bought the fish I asked him what his pH was, he told me he never checks it and didn't know. When I got home I checked the water from the bag the fish were in and found it to be 6.4, its just not fair! I was a little upset, but at that point all I could to was to slowly add water from the tank and hope that I would not shock them. They seemed to do just fine and infact ate a few hours later with me sitting near the tank at my desk. But the next day and ever since, been about three weeks now, the best I get to see the fish is from across the room!?
Sorry to be so long winded, but I really enjoy these guys and want only the best for them.

[keith_cny]

How often are you feeding them? How well are they eating and what are they eating? What was the breeder feeding them? If your using frozen bloodworms for example, thaw them by hand in the top of the tank. They will come to realize everytime you stick your hand in the tank they might get something to eat. Pretty soon they should be coming out to meet you.

Keith

[kevster]

Do you use a water softner. I had problems like you until I stopped the water softner water

Kevster

[GWdiscus]

Thank Keith and Kevester for replying so quickly,
I feed the fish twice a day using beefheart made by the breeder, so the fish were eating this before I got them. I like the idea of bloodworms, any concerns about parasites from these?

I do not have a water softener and do not know what kind of hardness I have, any suggestions on what is a good test for hardness?
thanks
GW

[chirohorn]

I think it's 'normal' for new discus to be skittish & easily spooked when introduced to a new aquarium. Your water parameters sound fine. You probably don't have to add the peat at all. Cutting it would make water changes easier in the long run.

Give your fish a few days to fully acclimate. As long as they were healthy when purchased, they will come around. I've got a feeling you'll be much more successful this time around. Good luck.

[Carol_Roberts]

You have a 75 gallon tank with 7 new juvenile discus. You change 20% of the water about twice a week. You do not agitate your stored water at all, but let it sit for 4 days.

Do you add a dechlor product? If not did you test the water to make sure the chlorine is gone?

Is the pH of your tank water 7.6?

What is the pH of your stored water right before a water change?

Yes, juvenile discus may take a little time to settle in, but I'd like to see you do a few more water tests.

Adult fish can get by with less water changes - I usually change water everyday with juveniles.

I worry that your change water might be different in pH or that your filters haven't fully caught up to the new fish load and you're seeing a bit of ammonia. . .

[DarkDiscus]

GMW,

I think Carol is on the right track. The other thing I would check is the lighting in the room your fish are in - If you walk between an open window and your tank, it can cast shadows which freak fish out. I try to keep tanks along the same wall as windows or keep the window blinds closed to prevent these shadows.

Some fish are more sensitive to this than others.

Hth,

John

[Mr.Trips]

Try this if you can, and see if they are still skidish, Wrap 3 sides of the tank with paper, foil, etc, so they only can see out the front, keep the light off on the tank, and see if after a couple of days they settle down.

It worked for me!

PS, there is a forum on the PH, Im not worried what my ph is, just as long and the water im using for a WC is within .2 of the tank water.

Good Luck!

[jeep]

You may want to consider more testing like Carol and John said. Specifically ammonia, nitirite and nitrate. Check your storage water as well.

Check you heater and all electrical equipment for malfunctions that may be allowing a small electrical current into the water.

You may want to add salt at 1 - 2 TBS per 10 gallons.

I would increase water changes as well...

good luck!

[GWdiscus]

I want to say thank you to everyone that has responded to my freaked out fish. I am really glad I found this site with so many knowledgable people willing to help out. I just hope you can get through all my ramblelings below.

I tried the bloodworms this moring with no success. The fish normally do not eat right away, but would always eat all or most of the beefheart in a few hours. So I thought they would eat the bloodworms sometime during the day. When I got home today it looked as if none of the bloodworms had been eaten.

I tested for ammonia and it tested out at 0.6 mg/L, the first time I've seen any trace of ammonia since I started the tank over 2 months ago. The ammonia was a littel less of the WC. The pH was 7.6, temperature was 86 degrees F.

I tested the holding tank, its pH was 7.8, temp. 86, and no trace of ammonia.

Carol, I will start daily water changes beginning with todays. I wonder, is the ammonia I saw today a result of the bloodworms being uneaten and sitting all day or might it be as you suggested, that my biological filter hasn't kicked in fully yet?

I do have an outside filter on the holding tank and thought that the movement of the water from this would be enough to allow the chlorine to defuse from the water. I don't have a test kit for chlorine but will use a dechlorine type product while continuing daily changes.

I've looked over the electrical equipment and found it all in good condition.
I've always liked adding salt to the water to my brackish fish when I had them, and I add a cup of salt to my koi pond in the back yard once a month. I hadn't added any to the discus tank but will slowly add some in the water changes over the next few days.


The fish tank is located in a large family room that has been sectioned off by a couch and my desk. The fish can see the tv if they swim to the top of the tank and, I know this might sound weird, but I'm sure I've seen them watching the animal channel more than once.
The only time there might be a shadow that might spook them is if the walk between the desk with a light on it and the desk. Before I get that close the fish are already in the corner hiding.

???I am thinking that the lights I have over the tank might have an adverse affect on the fish. I have 2 48" flouresent lights. When the timer goes off the fish seem to come to the front, swim to the top and look to be playing with each other by swimming in small groups, changing which fish is the the lead etc.
I'm considering leaving the lights off of a day or two, if this works I have to move the plants to my son's tank.

I think I've discussed most of the comments brought up, I'm getting sleepy and want to spend a few minutes with the fish, all be it, from 10 feet away, before I go to bed. Thanks everyone and if you have any other comments or ideas about what I'm planning in the next few days please leave me a note. I'll let you know how all is going soon.
thanks again,
Michael

[Carol_Roberts]

HI Michael:
If you have something circulating your storage water you are probably fine. pH in storage water is fine. Adding one or two tablespoons salt per 10 gallons to your tank all at once will not hurt discus. Good idea to try lights off for a day or two - then maybe one light on . . .

[nalah]

Michael
after doing what has been mentioned,if still no change,try this out.
discus are like sheep. one freaks,the rest follow. not always easy,but see if you can spot the fish that stresses first. move him to another tank if you can. this worked for me

CAUTION: move fish around only if all have been in quarantine and are disease free.

[GWdiscus]

Dear Pascale,
Australia, how cool!! One of my most favorite places on the planet, unfortunately I've never been, someday.
Anyway, you had a really good suggestion. It does seem that one or two of the fish are the ones to freak and the rest follow suit, I hadn't really noticed until now.
I am really glad that so many people with so many experiences share their understanding of these very unique fish. I am learning so many things ;D

[DarkDiscus]

Michael,

Remember that in their natural habitat the sun is filtered out by the darker water/turbidity and/or overhead roots/flooded trees/bushes. They are not getting a lot of direct light from directly overhead. One step I have taken is to place strips of aluminum foil between the strip lights and the glass hood. This creates nice areas of shadow for the fish and dims the intensity. If you find that they behave much better with the light off, you can either leave it off or go with one bulb and some foil cutouts.

JMHO,

John

[GWdiscus]

Thanks John,
They do like the dark more, although they are starting to be a little less freaked. I like your suggestion of putting sections of aluminum to simulate root growth or at least some protection from the light.

I was wondering about if a couple of pieces of drift wood floating free at the surface do the same thing? Any suggestions or concerns about this idea? :-\

Michael