Finding a good Discus supplier...

[brewmaster15]

Hi Everyone,
I thought I'd start a general post on how to find a good a Discus supplier. Then I remembered a post that another member started awhile ago. I credit this thread to one that Jason tried to get going...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=5705;st art=0

Let me make it clear from the start, this isn't an opportunity to promote or flame any breeders/sellers. If any specific names are mentioned they will be editted out, or the post will be deleted. If any links to specific posts about a particular seller are given . They will be editted as well.


I hope to be able to put this together as guide to finding a good supplier, and will write it up as an article for our library --- so please contribute. Its a chance to help someone out.


What I would like to see is how everyone here goes about finding a breeder/ seller. And for those that have many discus what kinds of advice can you give, and hard lessons you have learned.

To carry over some of that information from Jasons post....


members suggestions so far....
zaPPPa, 12/31/02:


Read, read, read, read.
Before you dare even think about buying Disus learn everything about them. Learn how to recognize good fish, learn about disease symptoms, proper food, water chemistry, discus care... everything. Discus are not hard to keep, but they do need more care than your average tetra.
Also, try to find out if your current tank setup will be adequate for keeping discus. And, more importantly, ask yourself if you are willing to spend the time needed to take proper care of these fish. If in doubt.. don't do it.

- Ask around!
There are probably two good ways to find a good breeder. The internet and clubmembers. Take my word for it, your LFS is not a good idea.
Do not stop at a single opinion about someone, get a second, a third and then some more. Opinions vary and some breeders are known to bad-mouth eachother.

- See the fish before you buy them (if possible)
Before you go read up on what good discus should look like. Memorize the coloration of different strains and what the correct fin shape should be. There are more than enough references about this in books and on the internet.

- See the parents (if possible)
This will give you a better idea how the little ones will turn out (if you buy juveniles). It will also give you a better idea on the quality of care of the breeder.

- Talk to the breeder and ask questions, many questions.
Not just useful to learn more about your new fish, but also ask about his filtration system, water changes schedule, special method, food... anything. There's no better way to learn than to learn from an expert.... and if you already know that stuff, you can just ask to see if he knows his stuff.

- Watch the fish feed
Should be ferocious eaters.. It will also give you an idea about the hierarchy of the fish in that tank.

- Join a club
You'd be amazed how much money you can save by knowing the right people. Since I have joined the DCH (Discus Club Holland) I have not visited the LFS. I order everything on the internet and get my food and other stuff from members of that club.

Before I bought my first discus I got some tips from people i trusted and I watched my fish for over an hour. The breeder also showed me the parents and fed the little ones. Then we just sat and talked for at least two hours about his installation and discus in general. He also gave me some phone numbers of people to call if my fish would get sick and where to buy high quality food.

Since then I have made every mistake in the book, but that's a different story altogether.... The fish are still alive and kicking though!




Kagan, 12/31/02


Go and observe the fish for at least couple of days if you are not sure about the seller. Do not loose your patience. If there is so few fish that they could be sold; then observe the fish for at least half an hour. So that you will see its reactions to feeding, people coming-leaving, other fish etc..

See the parents if the if the fish are very young, lets say at most 2.5-3 inch.

The most important is to see as many fish as you can in the web sites and in the shops, TO MEMORIZE THE MUST BE SHAPE AND COLORING AT DIFFERENT AGES..

Do not buy before comparing the price of similar fish. There are lots of web based breeders around here.

On the other hand; if you live in a country where you will not be able to find variety of discus; then wait till you find the best fish for you eyes. This is my situation and I have waited 1.5 year to get a total of 9 fish!!

Ardan, 12/31/02


Just some more suggestions. My opinions

1 Maybe read through all the posts in the "breeders section" and get some ideas.

2 When you have an idea then look at that persons "profile" and read all their posts. You can get a good feel for the person.

3 See who is "actually helping others". It means a lot!

4 If in doubt, then "IM" some people who have been around the forums a while. Ask.

5 Read the posts, look at the pics, see who is happy with their fish and has healthy fish. Ask them where they got them.

Everyone has different experiences,even with the same breeder. Everyone makes mistakes.

Everyone has different likes and dislikes. What is pleasing to you may not be to someone else. SO YOU ARE THE FINAL JUDGE for yourself. If you like the fish, who cares if someone else doesn't.As long as its healthy and grows.


The other mentioned items are good, (see the fish, ask the breeder questions, see the fish feed if you can, etc)

hth
Ardan





Mench 12/31/02


Like most of the others have said...ask a lot of questions,try to get your fish yourself,not mail order,if possible..Check out the breeders hatchery,check out the parents...watch the fish you want for a while.
I try not to buy small fish,say quarter to 50 cent size,cuz at least with the little guys that I have bought I have gotten more than my share of "runts",just my luck I guess...I would suggest that you buy the largest fish that you can afford,that way you are pretty sure that you will get a healthy and good shaped fish.
If you can't see the fish for yourself,or can't find what you want and have to buy mail order,then check the boards and ask every one you can about the breeder you want to buy fish from.
After you get your fish and they start doing what you want..check out your area for other discus nuts and try to get together...Around my area there are a few of us that swap fish around,to see what we can get to breed...it is a good way to get other fish and also to get fry...if you are lucky enough to get some spawns going then you will have a constant source of fish.
Hope this helps.

Mench


Jeep 12/31/02


I might add that one should understand that if you see a picture of a fish on a website, all fry may not look exactly like it. In other words, don't order based on a picture, order based on the breeders reputation and honesty.

Once you determine who you are ordering from, ask every question you can think of about the fish. What to expect fron juvie to adult.

Honest mistakes do happen even from honest people. If the breeder is honest, he will usually correct mistakes.

Daninthe sand 12/31/02


All the above information is great. But one thing that is being left out I think unless I missed it.

I don't care who the breeder is. Hobbiest, fulltime breeder whatever.

Is is my opinion that THEY ALL HAVE SOME LESS THAN SATISFACTORY FISH IN THEIR TANKS at any given time and each has different ways of geting rid of them. LFS, culling whatever.

So if you cannot see the fish you are buying, make sure you tell the breeder you want his best fish. Phone him and tell him you will not be happy with anything less. Make it clear to him/her what your opinion of BEST FISH means.

Hopefully he will see that you know what you want and send you what you are looking for. Pictures are always great if the breeder is willing to do that for you. But as we have all seen pictures can bemisleading as well.

HTH.


Don_lee


I am very glad that you are back, we were wondering what happened to you...
In short, the best thing I have found is research all you can. This board is a great resource, as are many of the books that are available. Some of the books are simplistic, while some are quite advanced. Talking in person to experts has probably done more for me than anything in terms of really learning. Actually standing and looking at fish with people who really know about discus is invaluable, that person to person immediacy is wonderful.



Bradnc,12/31/02


Steps to Choosing Discus

If you want to choose discus from a store or local breeder:
1) Ask to see the fish being fed. Only consider those that attack the food right of the bat. Don't listen to them tell you they've already been fed, they're always hungry.

2) Look at the body dimensions of the fish. The fish should be as tall as it is long. This DOES NOT include any fins, only the actual body.

3) Fins on the fish should be erect, and the fish should not look black or dark, nor should it cower in a corner. If they dash when you come near the tank and turn dark, move on.

4) Look at the eye of the fish. If it looks big in proportion to the body then the fish may be stunted

5) Don't take fish that are the brunt of all the picking going on in the tank. The bigger, more aggressive fish in the tank are probably healthier and can defend themselves much better.

6) Choose fish that YOU would be thoroughly pleased with. That's what really matters. Make sure you are POSITIVE you want that fish. There should be no doubt in your mind

I hope that gives an idea to anyone interested.
Brad

Yogi 1/01/2003


It's a matter of doing your homework, and this thread is a great start. First you have to do your homework on how to set up your tank. Also gather information on what is required to keep discus healthy such as food, water changes, quarantine, etc. This thread already contains a lot of good information on how to find a reputable breeder and what to look for in discus.

With the internet and everyone helping everyone there is almost no excuse for people to get ripped off. There will always be people who do not do there homework and just rush out and buy tanks and fish. There will also be people who just look for the cheapest discus available, without a concern for quality. You can't feel sorry for these people because they brought in on themselfs.

No matter who you are fish can get sick, just like people can. You need to observe them especially at feeding time. Very few things will kill a discus overnite. So if you suspect a fish is sick observe and post in the disease section of this board for help.

They say a discus can live for ten years. I don't know if this is true or not. I do know that with good care you should get atleast five to seven years out of most of your discus.

Lynn 1/1/2003


1. You need to do your homework about discus before you buy any.
2. Go to the breeders and pick out your own fish. This will give you an excellent idea about the person and how well he or she takes care of the fish. Well cared for fish are usually healthy.
3. If you cannot get to a breeder in person, then make many inquiries before buying sight unseen. Ask around!!!
4. If you a just starting with discus, its okay to not have grand champions!! You can get those later after you learn!!
5. If you have experience with discus then you must realize that GOOD DISCUS ARE NOT CHEAP, CHEAP DISCUS ARE NOT GOOD!!!


Simon2000, 2/17/2003


1. Check the person/supplier your're buying from, as from past experience some people try to sell you poor quality discus at high prices.

2. Steer clear from places where people don't know what they are talking about


Some of my additions to this list....

1) pay close attention to the fish that are posted , not to the what others say about the fish. Does it look healthy? Is it something you would like. Are their parents availible to see what it might look like?

2) have a dedicated quaranteen area set up, and ask all the sellers what they do for Quaranteen and why. See if it makes sense to what you have read here and elsewhere.

3) Take the time to talk to different sellers about the hobby , and diseases and anything they may have heard about problems others are having. Realize that many of these sellers have relationships with each other. And the community is small. Secrets are hard to keep :)

4) be blunt...ask a seller an opinion about other breeders. Ask them who they would buy from, and reccommend. Ask them who has good stock, and who they would not buy from. Listen to what they say... but listen more to what they don't say.

5) build a relationship. Don't just scour the net for the newest strains... Be patient , build a relationship, and wait for your trusted supplier to get what you want, or breed it.

6) Contact anyone on the board with Good experiences with a breeder/seller. Get more info as to what they got and how happy they are. Don't just talk to them after a new order, check with them about fish they got months ago. Are they still happy?

any other suggestions out there?

-al

Ps... Thank you again Jason for having the idea to start this thread....lets keep the ideas going! :)

[roger]

Hello Everyone

Brew covers a lot of gound, and given enough time to read it all I might have more to say.

Here are a few things that come to mind ..

1. No matter how good the breeder/importer is no one will have a perfect record. There is always someone that isnt happy with the fish, the price, the shipping etc .. So when your asking around to people its probably just as important to find out how that breeder/importer handled the problem as it is the problem itself.

2. Aside from finding out who an importer/breeder is getting fish from, find out how he verifies the health of the fish. Things like which lab does he send fish to, length of time in qt.

3. Many of the newer diseases take a long time to develop and show up, so an updated qt regiment is required. Things like 8 weeks vs 6weeks. Put the qt in a different room, preferably something with a closed door on it. Use seperate equipment when dealing with those tanks. I always deal with these new arrivals last so that I dont drag things over to my other tanks. Keep yourself clean after dealing with those tanks, little things like washing hands and arms go a long way.

Remember getting fish from an importer or a breeder that imports isnt a bad thing, it just adds a layer of complexity to the purchase.

So take the time to ask around, and talk with the person your buying from. The extra time you take will pay off and make sure that both you and your fish are happy.

Peace,
Roger

[Smokey]

Yes, all very good advice. However, in the all excitment to buy discus, sometimes we put common sense aside. And only time gives a person the expierence/instinct to know which discus and from whom we should buy.

Presently - I have three persons, (all simplydiscus members) from whom I will trust to but fish from. Why,???, good question!

1st - Location - I am isolated in the Canadain Rocky Mountains, and find it difficult to travel the enormous distances.
2nd - Familarity - Having met the persons( on simply discus only) a ''TRUST'' has developed. Reading their posts, seeing their pics, and generally becoming familar with the people via simplydiscus. I have found people to be very ''truth-ful'' in their posts. We all have ''DISASTERS'', at one time or another; posting the expierences gives me a good fealing about a person. And shows every one is human!
3rd - what can I say - sometimes everything goes perfect; sometimes ''Murphy'' happens.
4th - It takes me a long time to deceide, which is good. Exactly which type of discus I would like to have. And for what reason. for show.. or ... for breeding.

Presently, I have an order with two breeder/hobbiests. In both cases shipping is the key. I have to travel to the Calgary Airport - a distance of 250 miles return; just to pick up the little buggers. In another purchase, from a simplydiscus member/ breeder/hobbiest, I traveled over 400 miles, in the cold Febuary winter, to pic up the disucs. Sight unseen... He@# - I wouldn't walk a block for a loaf of bread!!!
But , when it come to discus, nothing else seems to matter. they are priorety #1.

5th - buy knowingly and take the time to take care of them.

Smokey
P.S. - when the time arises to sell my discus fry, I will be bound by my own personal ''DISCUS MORALS''.
without that , I would only have good looks and my personality. lol.

good luck with your discus buying endevers. Remember, this is not just a hobby, but an ''OBSESSION!!!

Smokey

[April]

I agree alot with what Smokey has said...as far as reading posts and corresponding with the person..and becoming friends. and also who was willing to give advice and answer emails...and take the time. ive become good friends.

[Smokey]

Too bad Pril doesn't follow the advice givin !!!
eg: radical pH water changes
radical water temperature water changes
radical electrical fires
radical water changes...but forgetting to add the new water
radical overfeeding
radical underfeeding
radical temper..when she reads this post
hehehehehehehehehehe!

unsigned, for safetys sake!!! lol

by by

[April]

Smokey Smokey smokey....your imagining the whole thing.
a minor fire.....due to a short in a wetvac..
and bit of too warm water for one wc...
a bit of ph change....
ok..so i learn by two by four logic....best way.
Of course Smokey has never made a boo boo.
and add a few e's to your bye byes will you?
your treading into very dangerous waters bud..i could very well hold those little mini manas here in Vancouver...
or...the nice fishies you want from Australia. could go no further than Vancouver!!
;D

[Smokey]

OK OK OK OK OK i'm sorry . Not nice to hold the babies as hostages.

by by

[Fisheyes]

Hey Smokey
I think she's got you by minnows
Fisheyes :whip:

[Smokey]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.. I thinks' you is right.
It is some thing to know such a wonderful, bright, young, beautiful, sincere, lovely, intelligant, forgiving, sincere, did I mention beautiful, understanding, good sence-of-humor, tender, pashinate, motherly, person...

Smokey

[April]

;D ;D ;D ::) :P

[wildthing]

Interesting, with all this good advice why is there hardly anyone that follows any of it?

[Smokey]

GOOD QUESTION - Wildthing !!!

Why do some people not follow the advice availabe/given ?

IMPE - minium experience

Thoughts of ''GRANDUARE''!
?

Smokey

[ALFO13]

I think alot of ppl don't follow it because they think it is too mch work but if they really like there fish they will do what is needed. I no i do with myn and i will my with my discus that i will be getting soon

Alex

[Smokey]

Ahhh , you hit the nail on the haed; alex.

People do not know/believe that an aquarium requires maintance. OR what the bio-logical is.

speaking from actual expierences dealing with customers.

Smokey

[Smokey]

I remember back when I deceided to get serious about keeping discus. Since I was already breeding a number of species, I figured I had the ability!
Remember; this was all before the internet revaloution!
I had a number of excellant books - Baensch and Riehl [3 volumes], Degan, Wattely, etc. The city water was pretty good. etc, etc, etc...

Being an active member of an Aquarium club, I started to inquire about discus. Well, one thing lead to another. I visited many successful breeders; and learned....

A number imported discus - and to cull was very expenxive ... To quote one importer ..... ''SOMEONE WILL ALWAYS BUY THE DISCUS''; why should "" I "" cull.

Today; with the immediate world wide access; purchasing discus from afar is just a matter of sending the ''MONEY''.

Buying out of ''FRUSTATION'' is also a great insentive.
[Tired of looking, impluse buying].

Chosing your relatives is not an option!
Chosing your disucs is a disapline .

Less than 10% of fish, final end of consumer sales; survive .
Discus require extra attention [ when compared to other general retail fish].
ONE WATER DOES NOT FIT ALL !!!

Sober words.

Smokey

[April]

Heres an anonymous email from someone who bought.from one breeder and took his word for the quality.and his feelings on getting quality fish sent.

thats good when I emailed that guy he said they were high quality Discus and that I could tell by the tiny eye .the 2 extras sent I flushed the very next day we just got to find some one thats not a bull shitter I dont care if they are a nice guy or not they can insult me any way they want just give me a nice fish .
all I was getting at was we cant give counterfeit money every 3rd time so we should get good fish each time not every 3rd time .

[Gisela]

Im just a lurker and have read just about every post on the forum. All very good information, I debated whether or not I should post so here it goes.

I have been into Discus on and off now for 11 years and live in Alaska. I not only have fish but 4 Warmblood horses, and Im also owned by 2 cats.

Everyone has made very good points, but here is one from me. When I look at sites, at every ones pictures, I say Wow to myself. Then I place an order, emailing or talking over the phone and I recieve footballs or very peppered fish for 25.00 and up plus shipping that makes me very angry. I do not feel that I should have to cull a fish which I just paid for. I just received an order of 18 fish from Ken at FishFarm usa and am very very happy with them. :D

Just 2 weeks ago my son sent me a surprise birthday present via Fed Ex, I got 6 Discus, I could not believe it, Well one Colbalt is shaped like a football, and the 2 of the 3 German brillants are so peppered I dont think, no, I know I will never see there full color. I did email the hatchery and as of today I have not received a reply. My son does not make very much money but he was so excited with what he did. They are in my tank, healthy, fat and growing and Im just so happy my son sent me such a gift.

I just ask that people who breed and sell Discus and have pictures on there web sites, please send out the true representation of that discus. I know then I will be a repeat customer of yours. :D ;D :D.

Gisela

[Smokey]

NOw - here is a very good example of what a ''GOOD DISUS SUPPLIER'' SHOULD BE.

Thank you for you insite and expierence, Gisela.

[April]

Hi and welcome Gisela. great post. AND sorry you got taken advantage of.
glad to meet you and think you should post more. ;D
Trouble is...some breeders dont even sell their own fish.
they get fish from other places to supply their customers as they dont have enough to supply. that is fine if you are told they are not their homebred fish. and they select nice fish they would like to have in their own tanks. its not fine to send out a fish like that to anyone. beginner or whoever.
surely that person knew those fish were not quite round...

[Smokey]

... OR ... that person [supplier] does not know his butt from a hole in the ground !!!

Sorry for being so blunt.

Here at simplydiscus, we are a small group of enthusists/obsessionates. We put every detail under a microscope, we strive for the ultimate discus.
Well, what else can WE do ?

WE LOVE OUR DISCUS.

Smokey

[Gisela]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome, Ok I just received today the response to my email concerning the 1.5 -2 in discus my son bought me for my birthday. (My post is above) Im pretty much in shock at the response. :'(

The discus your son ordered from us were the size number 1. And they are the lowest priced discus that we sell. All discus are born looking like any other fish, which is oblong. The discus will grow in time into a round shape if the stock is of good quality. The markings on the body is a camouflage on discus babies which have a potential to be solid or partially solid adults. It is impossible to tell in small discus if the speckles will disappear as they grow into adults. The discus you received are only 2 ½ months old. The discus will improve as they grow over the next few months. The only strain in size # 1 that do not have any markings or speckles are the blue diamonds and blue diamond high fins. The discus on our website are premium selected adults for size shape and color, but there is no guarantee that the babies will have a 100% identical shape, color and the potential to be prize winning specimen as their parents are. As a horse person, you should know that.

Sincerely
PT

I do know with his attitude this hatchery will never ever get my business again.

[Gisela]

Here is my response to his email.
Because this thread is about calling the breeders on ethics.


Thank you for very much for you lesson. I'm not a beginner or novice in the Discus World.

I do know what round is and what football, oblong shaped is and they will not grow out of that. Out of 6 fish received 5 of them are not the quality that you portray on your web site. I do know what a poor quality specimen is verses a good one even at such a small size. I personally do not feel your attitude in your email was justified to me. I am or should I say my son was your customer and it clearly reads on your web site, Color, Shape , Size and Health is 100 % guaranteed. And that you sell top quality discus worldwide and that you take great pride in the exceptional quality of your tropical fish and if you want the finest possible discus available in the USA then call $####$@!!.

Each one of the fish that was sent to me cost 37.50 each which includes shipping, that is not small change.
Per your response, " they are the lowest price discus that you sell, Does that include the poorest quality just because they are $25.00? The fish you have on your web site and what you sell should represent that.

I do not think that I should have to cull a fish, which is paid for by a customer. That (name withheld) is your responsibility to do so. Just like I use to do on my show dogs that I bred. Cull, If not then you should state to your customers that you have 25.00 fish that are not of exceptional quality.

I do know what I see in my bare bottom, discus only tank is not the finest possible discus.

I guess you email says it all and I wish I could have been a future customer of yours.

Thank you

If anyone wants the name of the hatchery you may email me at gisela@mtaonline.net

[Smokey]

Gisela; very nicely composed reply. Tactful, but to the point.

I certainly hope to see more posts, by you.
[even if it just to ''vent''. lol.]

Welcome to SimplyDiscus.

Smokey

[Willie]

Gisela;

You can get high quality discus guaranteed for less than $37.50/fish from the many reputable breeders that advertise at this and other discus forums. All of these guys will guarantee that you get high quality fish from the start. Most of these guys will guarantee that your fish will show no disease for 2 - 4 weeks after delivery. Some of these guys will even guarantee that your fish will turn out to be high quality adults. If not, they'll send you new fish. Stay away from that bozo!

Willie

[April]

Gisela. id try Cary at great lakes discus. he will send you some very nice fish. he has great fish and he cares about his customers and his fish .
Tell him his "mom" sent you. but might have to wait till he grows some more.

[Discus_Hans]

2 of the 3 German brillants are so peppered I dont think, no, I know I will never see there full color. Gisela



Gisela, do you've a picture of those peppered briljants??????

Hans.

[Smokey]

OH NO - the ''Dutch'' have arrived. How you doing Hans. It has been awhile. how is everything at the other ''site'' Good to hear from you.

Gisela - do Hans a favor - post some pics, ok.

Smokey

[Gisela]

Hi Smokey, I sent a picture to Hans and he already replied to me but I need to figure out how to post a pic here first.
Gisela

[Smokey]

Morning Gisela; I am at your web page, right now. nice looking ponies. Answer your mail, ok

[Smokey]

Giseal go to chat. ok

[April]

heres Giselas pic i am posting for her. she wasnt sure how.

[Smokey]

Hmmm, nice looking filter sponge ! lol


I remember when the pigeon bloods first came out, back in 95 - '96. I bought some from a breeder/importer.

UI am still not fond of them - MPO. ok.

I still like the true turks. I love the colours. call me old fashioned, but what the hay. We all have our own preferences, right.

Mind you , I do have some Red Diamond Beauties.
but , youv'e all heard me bragg about them before. lol

Smokey

[Discus_Hans]

Hi Gisele, I think the breeder you bought them from has made a mixup in what he sold you/your son.
The fish in the picture is not even related to a Briljant,
here are 2 pictures of briljants, don't burn me down on the quality of the pictures, I had to make them in a hurry. Normaly I've to take 20-30 pictures to get 1 good one.
If you want to see some top quality Briljants, come to the ACA 2003 in July, I take a few with me for sale (no small ones only 4-4.5" but as I'm told for prices you buy 3" fish for)

Smokey: Everything is fine TX, at the other "side" & "site".
That I'm not posting a lot overhere has nothing to do with the people overhere, I'm just very bussy and need to make choices were to spend my time. Joe is as most of you know a very good friend so I'm posting a little more overthere. I'm banned from 1 of the 3 Dutch forums so that gives me a little more time :) :) :) :) Hans.

[Discus_Hans]

Other one.

It realy suprised me, no one jumped in when you talked about peppered briljants, briljants don't pepper, as far as I know only Pigeon kinds, but HEEEEEEE who am I, Hans.

Hans is right! Without a doubt. That isnt even close to a Brilliant....its a Pigeon Blood and a poor quality one at that.
Maybe a mix up with the supplier? Although I find it really hard to believe a "breeder" wouldnt know the difference between a PB and a German Brilliant ???

Is it possible he sold your son a Brilliant X PB? In that case the PB gene is dominant...they would have Brilliant genes, but hidden.

Im just guessin now...Dunno ???

Tony

[April]

even if he mixed it up it certainly isnt a young frys camouflage colour and he will lose it. i knew it sounded pigeon and i was trying to imagine it. i was thinking maybe like one of those blue pandas...which ive seen with orange striations and blue speckled in between.
those are good filters. : ))

Your wrong Pril :(

Those are AWSOME sponge filters ;D

Tony

[April]

i have a few of the smaller double ones from them. shouldve got more.
nice brilliants Hans. they are still and im sure will always be my favourite strain. those are the fish that made me want discus. 8) ;D

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Man O man!

Yet another clown trying to scam My hobby!

I know who PT is and I know he reads this site! him and his son.

Give him hell >:(

[Carol_Roberts]

What's wrong with you guys . . . that's as bout as close as I've seen to a solid black discus . . . a few more generations and she may have something there ;)

[Gisela]

Hans that is pretty good picture for the first shot, you must have them trained. I knew my son got screwed when I saw them. I have a matching pair, I would love to come to the ACA but I dont like to travel, I pretty much like staying in Alaska. And not to mention going to the ACA could probably pretty much bankrupt me. LOL

Cary when you are up and running again I will place an order,My son even tried calling you but it was during your sale and you were out of fish. The hatchery, so there is no confusion is located in MD. And yes I would like to give him more hell, but where does it end. He apparently is right and Im wrong. He knows what he is doing and I don't.

April I wrote him and he made no apologies what so ever, I guess the customer is wrong at his establishment. Way back when I got into Discus this person had his web site up, so he has been in this for awhile he should know what he is doing.

Tony the sales slip that came with the fish clearly states Germ Brillant and even in his email to me there was no mention of PB in this line. You are right about the sponge filters they are awesome, very easy to clean just pop them off and they are off the bottom of the tank. I have the smaller ones also, I have only seen them at Foster and Smith.

Carol that is pretty much what I thought, a pure black discus with red or orange eyes. Do you think I could make a fortune on that HA HA HA they would be hotcakes for holloween.

Well every one thanks for all your input, This truley is a great forum with lots of Wonderful people.
Gisela

[Smokey]

Gisela - couldn't you just hook up a couple of your hores and -- ''TRAIL RIDE'' to the ACA ! Start now and you just may make it in time. LOL.
Bring along a KODIAK for company. I can just imagine it know; Giseal - swaggering into the convention with her ''pet'' on a leash. hahahahahaha. This will straigten out them thar southerners !!!
Oh, and you can drop off some of that fine fish your husband caught.

Smokey

[Jeff]

:'( Some breeders just don't understand the concept of repeat customers. I guess basic business skills are not a prerequisite in the discus business.

[April]

Gisela . just think of it this way . you have now conversed with alot of us on this forum and met some new discus friends. : )) hows that? a positive out of a negative. : ))
Glad you found Cary. he will make sure you have some very nice fishies in your tank. Jeff also has some very nice fish. so now you will be completely tempted and out of control like the rest of us. ::)
keep posting and keep us updated on your next new little friends who go for a trip to alaska.

[Gisela]

Smokey, That would be a very long and might i say a pain full trip. The gelding I ride all the time can be the biggest knot head. My stallion is not yet broke but working on that and the Arabrian/Appaloosa is just 3 and is beinn broke this summer she is still in the growing stage and should get 16.3 hds, Then I have the Trakener/TB 16.2 hds which I got last year, her plans are for a week long date with my stallion.
Now wouldnt everyone just love to taste fresh smoked salmon, do you know its great with coffee in the morning!!!!

April yes this experience has been very positive, met some good discus people and now I dont feel so alone here in Alaska.

Gisela

[Smokey]

Your friends are never more than a ''click'' away.
It was very nice chatting with you the other night . Take care .

Smokey

[Gisela]

Well Smokey we have to stop meeting this way, LOL

Anyways, just wanted to give everyone a heads up on this, the hatchery emailed me and has decided to refund all the charges. So I'm pleased with the end result. I just wish I had some nice discus in my tank. I dont haaaave the heart to cull them so they will grow up and should they decide to lay eggs one day those will be easier to destroy.

Thanks
Gisela

[Smokey]

Maybe the squeaky wheel DOES get oiled. lol
Glad to here they are refunding your money. Perhaps they do have a conscions; or fear of losing customers [ right simplydiscus people].

Thanks for the pic of the fish, I can taste them !!! YUM yum....

Smokey

[tracywalls]

Hello everybody. My its good to find so many Canadians chatting about fish. I've searched hi and lo and you all are few and far between. I'm in the same boat as you Smokey, pretty isolated in eastern Canada. Oh sure there are lots of people but no fish clubs in my city :'( and certainly no breeders east of Que that I know of. So my question is for all you Canucks. Where do you get your fish? Are these Canadian Breeders you speak of or have you found some that will ship across the border? Secondly, if it is from across the border, are there any licenses or duties or extra charges for importing live fish? I've never done it so I would like all the research you can give me. Maybe I should become a breeder ;)

[Smokey]

Howdey Tracy; welcome to simplydiscus. Glad to have you aboard.
Yes, there are a number of us "Canucks" here. Ranging from the west coast all the way to the east coast; 1/2 hour later in Newfoundland.[lol].

I am aware of a few dedicated breeders in Canada; not many, for some reason. Perhaps - because the country is so big, perhaps - the market is so isolated.

Speaking for myself; I had my breeding stock, as fry, shipped in from Australia. It is an investment. Of money, time, dedication, patience, equipment, and hope.

Foremost - it is a love for the discus, this is why I deceided to continue breeding them, solely ! It was not an overnight decesion.

As for importing into Canada, not a problem, easy actually.
Importing from a reliable source; that can sometimes be a problem.

MPO - stay tuned to this page, and I am sure the other Canadian breeders will let themselves know.

BUY CANADIAN.

Smokey

[ronrca]

There are a few breeders in eastern Canada! ;D
I actually bought some discus from a breeder in Toronto, John Khuu I believe. http://members.rogers.com/johnkhuu/Discus/

THere is also
http://www.belowwater.com/ in Montreal

I know there is few others but I cant remember them right now!

Check out:
http://breedersurvey.dphnet.com/breedercountry.shtml

[Smokey]

Hi Ron;
Great contacts. Thanks.

Smokey

[ronrca]

Hi Smokey! ;) How ya been?

[Smokey]

Good, Ron. Spring seems to be arriving, I think. The trees are budding out.
The discus are starting to get that " LOOK" on their faces.
You know; hey, where are the girls. lol.

Going to start setting up some " hello, how are you tanks".
And see waht develops !!!

Smokey

[tracywalls]

Thanks Guys *I can feeeeeel the love!*
I'll check out those links. I'm a lot more east then those links however (new bruns). Anyone know what happened to Great Lakes Discus? Their link is down. I'm no where near ready to buy but I'm doing a lot of research. I'll definately be a regular fixture here. Well back to work...
Thanks again. :thumbsup:

[ronrca]

Arent you much closer to Toronto or Montreal than we are? O, now I remember! Tornoto/Montreal is in the next country! You live in Canada, not Alberta! LOL!

[Smokey]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Smokey

[April]

hi Tracey. welcome. im on the opposite side of canada from you. there will also be someone importing extremely nice fish into canada very soon. in ontario. i can let you know when their here.
great lakes discus is still going. he just has to renew his domain name. hows that going then cary? want his phone number? im me i will give it to you. hes a good guy. tell him his mom sent you. : )) if you do import from the states cary knows how. you just need to say their for personal hobby. if your in a small town you may need a customs broker and arrange the time ahead of time. if a bigger city with a large airport you go to the cargo get your invoice and take it to customs. they collect the gst and pst and stamp it then you take it back to cargo and they hand you your fish. also expect a handling fee at the cargo . but ....i know for a fact cary has lots of nice fry right now. just spoke to him last night.
you too. roncra...he said he has tons...just not every single strain. and the longer they wait of course their bigger hence cost more. so...if they get going.and choose a few strains theres no problem with that order into alberta. better hurry before aca or they all go there.

[tracywalls]

Excellent, I'm learning more and more each time I come here. When I'm redy to own my own then I'll stick with these recomendations. I'd rather not import if I don't have to. There is the grand total of one discus at my LFS so I'll be ordering mail for sure. I can hardly wait but in all honesty the money is not there right now. Nor is the knowledge. I'm still reading and learning and drooling *sigh*. My son also enjoys the hobby. He is four and had a hairy fit when our fish were fed this morning. Our clown loach swam upside down across the top of the water sucking up the worms we fed them. My son jumped up and down laughing and saying Look at Toey He's swimming upside down. He's so funny! Ah kids. What a combo!

[April]

great tracy. keep reading and you will be set and have a good resource when you are ready.

[ronrca]

roncra...he said he has tons...just not every single strain. and the longer they wait of course their bigger hence cost more. so...if they get going.and choose a few strains theres no problem with that order into alberta. better hurry before aca or they all go there.
WHAT????? >:(

Is he keeping them a secret or something?
Hmmmm! Time for some :spank:
;D
I have an order in for 6 Rose Reds! Now I wish I could of got more! :( :'(

[Smokey]

Better hurry, Ron. the air traffic controllers go on strike and the discus may end up in ICELAND.

[Glenn]

Can we change the name of this post to Discus Canada or something

[tracywalls]

Cool. I AM CANADIAN! Now bring me a Molson. :antlers:

[Fisheyes]

I'll have a Canadian


Thank you

[Smokey]

bunch o'a beer drinkers....

[skinnyghm]

Does any one know of good breeder/dealers in colorado I live by Boulder but will travel if they are worth it. I'm looking to setup a tank and trying to get all the info I can like suggested. I've looked at some of fthe online ones and if people trust them I'll deal with them instead.

[Carol_Roberts]

Isn't Patrick in colorado? Look in the breeder/supplier section

[skinnyghm]

thx carol

[Smokey]

It has been awhile since I posted here. Been busy - summer stuff - fire stuff , etc.

Good to have reread all the members posts.

However - the topic started was how to find a discus supplier. ACTIUALLY - it should read -- HOW TO FIND A REPUTABLE DISCUS SUPPLIER. Right ???

So, lets hear from the members -- some personal expierences !

Summer has come and gone .... many have aquired new Discus; are they what you had ordered, expected, received ??.

YES - NO ? why, what happened ? Are you happy with the discus?

Lets share some personal expierences. OK>>>

Smokey.

[Smokey]

July 13th / 03, I received 6 blue diamonds; airfrieghted in from Eastern, USA. I have had them 8 weeks now, and I am very happy with their growth and development.

My purchase was based on the suppliers reputation, other members expierences and reccomandations. Thank you for the sincere advice..

Smokey

[jules]

Hi - very nice fish- Can you tell me is a Blue Diamond the same as a Neon Blue?

Also how would you rate the quality of the Discus as the LFS?

thanks.

[April]

lfs you really need to be careful. as they get from different suppliers.and alot are carriers of virus'. they can appear healthy..and when you add it to your existing fish...you can end up with a disaster.
where do you live jules. there are some members in canada on here who have fry.
most likely you will get healthier fish at a bit lower price and start off with a good experience. quite often the ones in the lfs have had a bad start and sometimes dont grow well. etc.
neon blue is just a name. theres lots of names put on these fish which are just fancy names added by the breeder.
blue diamonds should have no bars showing. thats the main thing. solid blue .

[Smokey]

Jules; Glad to have you aboard.

The blue diamond, pictured, is from an east coast, [usa], breeder.
In my personal opion, I was very glad, to have the oppertunity, to purchase the 1/2 dozen blue diamonds, from this breeder.

I spent two years seaching the world wide web - Discus,- to find a compiant breeder of this species. AND; in all honesty, this was my second choice. My first, was unable to supply. Unfortunatly!

If you have read as many post as I have - most home hobbiest sell their "culls" to the lfs. [read the posts on this web sight].

such fine species are not readily available, locally, at random, in lfs. MPE.

As april has mentioned .. there are a few dedicated breeders, who could supply such high quality disus. However, not as a single fish. Too expensive to freight out.

To rate the discus at "A" lfs ... this is a very leading question. Every lfs has its own agenda... and costs. And every wana-be-breeder dumping off culls. Not to say you may not find an exception discus ... kept in a pristine environment .. however .. the choice is yours.

MPE - only one lfs was able to supply me with high quality disucs ... because the breeders were the direct supplier .. and the owner was extremely dedicated to this particular species. AND the demand was great enough, to ensure the high quality.

Actually, the lfs owner was able to identify the discus to the breeder, personally. Reputations do mean alot!!!

The money in your pocket is your own .. spend as you see fitting.

Smokey

Ps thank you for the compliant. I like the diamonds. They are growing very well ... ps - still in quartiene.

AND devouring all the food I can give them.
[no flake food, though].

take care , buddy

[MrCBS]

Finding a good supplier is hard. But a well put together website is a good place to start. If the breeder has a nice site which shows their hatchery ect. shows their dedication. And may indicate how long they have been breeding and selling. Also look for a "live-on-arrival" warrenty

[April]

i think personal references are the best...and reading and seeing where people got their fish from. alot in the photo gallery shows fish people have acquired and where from.

[Carol_Roberts]

Yep, hang around here for awhile. You will quickly learn who the good guys are. As you browse through the general and photo section you will see the same names over and over. Maybe someone is close enough for you to drive to. Not only can you pick out your own fish you can really learn a lot from a one on one visit.

[sanmerah]

Hi all
I 've just ordered some discuses from adiscusdream.com. I am so disapointed. I ordered 5 2" leopard skin and 5 2" leopard snake skin. He said they are very nice and they are A grade. After I made the payment, he said the leopard snake skin are smaller than the size he told me, so he sent me 8 instead of 5.
The leopard snake skin that I received are about a 25 cent size. I couldn't see the color of the fishes. 1 of them have something wrong with the eye. One eye smaller than the other.
The leopard skin he sent me are the right size. But 2 of them didn't have any spot on their body. Another 2 have a little spot on their body. Only the smallest one has full spot on the body.
Because the shipping box was too big, all the bags were moving around inside the box when transporting. He didn't put anything to make the bags not moving around. When I opened the box, all the fishes were almost die. I 've received it about 1 week already but all the fishes still look terrible. Alot of black vertical lines are in their body. The leopard snake skin are too small, I don't think I can keep all of them alive. What a terrible experience!
I used to ordered 30 discuses from Thailand. They sent for me exactly what they said. This is the first time I ordered fish from the US.
Huy

[Alan]

I've been in the discus hobby for just a few months now and one good tip I got from someone I met at a forum on discus is to buy your fish only if you get to see them personally. I haven't made any purchases that required shipping but I could see the wisdom in this advice after reading a number of "horror" stories. :o

However, there are always some exceptions. References from a discussion group such as this really help a lot and I'm planning to buy more fish from different suppliers/breeders to lessen the after effects of in-breeding if there are such.

Anyway, here are a couple of blue diamonds I purchased at a LFS. I am quite surprised at the quality. They are 4" when I got them but the owner of the LFS is not sure of their age and guesstimated it at 5-6 months. I purchased them last Oct. 6, 2003 and they're just pigs in my Q tank right now. ;D

[Alan]

I 've just ordered some discuses from adiscusdream.com. I am so disapointed. I ordered 5 2" leopard skin and 5 2" leopard snake skin. He said they are very nice and they are A grade. After I made the payment, he said the leopard snake skin are smaller than the size he told me, so he sent me 8 instead of 5.
The leopard snake skin that I received are about a 25 cent size. I couldn't see the color of the fishes. 1 of them have something wrong with the eye. One eye smaller than the other.
The leopard skin he sent me are the right size. But 2 of them didn't have any spot on their body. Another 2 have a little spot on their body. Only the smallest one has full spot on the body.
Because the shipping box was too big, all the bags were moving around inside the box when transporting. He didn't put anything to make the bags not moving around. When I opened the box, all the fishes were almost die. I 've received it about 1 week already but all the fishes still look terrible. Alot of black vertical lines are in their body. The leopard snake skin are too small, I don't think I can keep all of them alive. What a terrible experience!
I used to ordered 30 discuses from Thailand. They sent for me exactly what they said. This is the first time I ordered fish from the US.
Huy


It is unfortunate that you ordered discus from this breeder. I read some not-so-good reviews about this one. :( I went to his website and his hatchery looks good. Maybe he is having some problems.

[Abercrombie6202]

Well it's not true that shipping is bad because sometimes that is only the best way to GRADE A discus. There are many people who have GRADE A discus, for example Cary at GLD. I've never ordered any from him yet, but i'm saving my money up so i can. I'd say before you buy from someone ask other people about that breeder and see what there results were!

[Miles]

Very good topic, and to be honest it is very easy to pick out a honest and reputable breeder here on Simply. Just read the feedbacks!!

8) 8)

[Smokey]

Just to share a few of my expierences - ordering and receiving Discus :

Back in July13th/03; myself and one other member of simplydiscus received a shipment of discus [48, I believe].
They had been flow in from Cary,GLD. We had to drive 2.5 hours to the airport to pick them up.

MPE - all discus were in good health; packaged very well and all were what we had ordered. NO SURPRISES!

Today, October 23/03 - the 6 blue diamonds, my order, are beautuful. They have grown in size considerable. Never a problem with a disease. I did have them in a "Q" tank for 3 months, with 6 golden pearl angel fish, and a tire track eel.

Personally speaking . I am very happy with the discus.

On October 15th/03, I purchased and personally picked up 8 more, discus from a simplydiscus member. The bigest being 5" @9 months old. Again, not a problem ... all are healthy, and beautiful.
Well - there was one tiny problem -- the discus could not be bagged. They kept punchering the bags. SO ... I borrowed a 20 gallon rubbermaid container and placed all 8 discus directly into the container. Arrived home some 6 hours later .. did a 50% w/c, and then placed the 8 into my 1oo gallon tank. Which already has 13 discus in it. { I just moved and had not set up the fish room]. It has been a week, now, and all are doing fine. NO PROBLEMS.

Back in September 18th/2002, I had 9 discus air frieghted in Form another simplydiscus member. These we in the air for 53 hours. All are big, beautiful and healthy. Again, No Surprises!!
I received what I had ask for.

BTW - I did spend alot of personal time researching and countless e-mails, back and forth. I felt secure in my decession and confident in the breeders word.

For what its worth.

Smokey

[Rick_May]

Hey guys their's a great tool avalable to find discus suppliers, it's the member map located at the top of the page. Take a look and see if someone close by has discus to sell, Its also a great way to save on shipping costs if you can contact a few people close by and put togther a group order. While your at it add your pin so others can contact you. Heres how, follow the directions in this link http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=16;action=display;threadid=14565

[ronrca]

Thanks Rick! Its an excellant idea! What would be really neat if the breeders would actually have a different colored pin head! ;)

[Smokey]

Hmmmm. A new concept to add ??

Smokey

[Scrappi_tt]

great article... I'm sure it helped a number of hobbyists get healthy fish by selecting a reputable breeder... ;)

[Smokey]

Merry Christmas and every one have a HAPPY NEW YEAR.

Smokey

[outlawpc]

I certainly agree with April and others that suggest personal recommendations as well as buying from someone near-by. Not sure what an "A" discus is. . . if you are able to see them and you like what you see, then it is an A. People sometimes get a little carried away with all this "A" stuff (unless, I suppose if you intend to breed them, enter them in a fish show, etc.). They are for most of us "pets" and each is special in its own way. Of course this is MVHO :-)

[Haywire]

Oh interesting point, for special pets like cats and dogs there's the registry, all pets sold get papers showing their lineage, wouldn't that be great for all those "Grade A" Dsicus?

[outlawpc]

Haywire. . . even with cats and dogs there is no grading system, just a regestry that shows the parental lineage (sp?). The cost for this if I recall correctly would buy you 2, 3, 4 fair size fish. . . you willing to spend that much to know who the parents, grand-parents, etc. of the the fish you are buying?

Maybe for breeders, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why the what-you-see-is-what-you-get way does not work out for most others.

[Haywire]

I agree there isn't a grading system, but there are standards within the breed, for example, german sheppard, hind legs slightly shorten than front, ears always up etc. Cobalt Blues, must have have light yellow tails, that sort of thing.

And of course that wouldn't stop parents A and B from making a whole litter of off colour and deformed mutts (god knows I've bought and killed a few of them).

Hmm, if WYSIWYG would breed true I'd be thrilled, the whole industry might even be better, look at one of Beth's posts in Parents with fry, the cross that created that one is definately not WYSIWYG.

[outlawpc]

. . . so what if you had cobalt blues with red tails. . . so now you call them ???

Although your thinking makes sense with dogs. . . discus are in the prossess of evolving. Remember all the colors we have today came from wild discus (maybe 3 or 4 varieties?). IMHO breeders are still trying to create more varieties and what we have today may pale in comparision to what will be breed tomorrow. One of my favorite new discus has the coloration of a Tang. Simply did not exist a short time ago, yet who would agrue their beauty.

[Carol_Roberts]

Cobalts have to have yellow tails? That's new to me . . .