diane walstad on potting soil as a substrate?

[wall_o_fish]

Has anyone read Diana Walstad's book on the freshwater planted aquarium, where she argues for the idea of plain potting soil as a substrate (under gravel)? Pretty convincing. My brother's tried it in a 10 gal, and had great success.

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
Can you post some pics of your brother's tank? I'd like to see it!
Thanks,
al

[ronrca]

Welcome to simplydiscus!

I have heard of people using garden soiling and the whole works under 2-3" of gravel in their tanks. Should be no reason why not EXCEPT....hehe....watch out when you remove or move a plant. What a big mess! Also, the soil can become denitrificated (basicly the nitrogen cycle reversed) because lack of circulation! ;)

[chavez720]

Acutally met Diane at a Fish/Plant auction. Great to meet her and have a chance to talk with her.

I use plain old NC red dirt capped with 2-3 inches of gravel and have had wonderful results. She did mention not to mix flourite with soil - It adds too much Fe - which I did! Oh well the substrate still works!

Check them out at www.aquacharlotte.com

There was always that myth that the substrate will become sour - release Hydrgen Sulfide or become anoxic. My substrates have been running for at least 3 years. Never have seen or smelled any release of H2S. As long as there is good plant growth the roots will provide enough circulation and O2 to keep things going. Keep some deep rooting plants - swords or crypts - and you will not have a problem.

Have to agree that it is a pain in the a$$ when you move things around!!! Otherwise the tanks with soil have been the most successful.

[ChloroPhil]

I wouldn't recommend using Diana's method with Discus. Her concepts and practices make aquariums into something more akin to a nano-pond than an aquarium as we see the term. Her tanks are really dirty even without the use of soil. They really are a self contained balanced ecosystem. It's a great concept for most other fishes, but I see too many opportunities for problems with discus.

[Wahter]

I with Phil on this - in addition, I believe Diana uses hard well water in her tanks - I can double check and ask her. (she lives about 30 miles from me) ;-)

[ChloroPhil]

Hey Walter, would you ask her specifically about keeping discus with her methods? Work's keeping me from the CAPE meeting this time and I was going to pick her brain at the meeting. Something like this would make a great article for the forum.

Thanks!

[wall_o_fish]

zowie, look how connected you all are! Some of you know her personally!

Thanks for the input on the dirt-tank thing. I'm still considering options.

Oh, and sorry, but no pics of my bro's tank. :-(

scott

[wall_o_fish]

Hey . . . GREAT website Wahter!





I with Phil on this - in addition, I believe Diana uses hard well water in her tanks - I can double check and ask her. (she lives about 30 miles from me) ;-)

[Ralph]

I use a variation of her recommendations on my 50 gal. It is 3/4" of regular potting soil, with 1/2" of Flourite on top and then 1" of gravel on top of that. I was very sceptical at first and was ready for anything but I haven't had any problems with it (it has been around 10 months). I thought I would get sulphur smells, bubbles, or escaping potting soil but I haven't seen any of that. The water is always clear and my discus did well in the tank (until a heater incident), even vacuuming hasn't been a problem. It is an all-sword tank (the anaerobic bacteria is prevented by oxygen coming from the roots) and the plants have done very well (a rubin is becoming emergent). I've had an algae problem off and on but that is due to a fertilization imbalance and has nothing to do with the potting soil.
I recommend it if you are interested in trying it.

[chavez720]

I would have to disagree with Phil. That is what we are trying to provide a well balanced eco-system for the discus! With the soil I find additions of ferts is not as demanding - skip ferts or double dose with no problems. I know this first hand - pool sand/laterite vs soil substrate. The first substrates sand/laterite I have never gotton to balance correctly. Within 1 week the soil substrate will balance correctly.

[wall_o_fish]

Thanks for your input Ralph. It's nice to know it's worked, even if in combination with other ideas. What kind of lighting do you use on your potting soil/laterite tank? Walstad is a big fan of plain ole' 48" flourescent T8s.

scott

[ChloroPhil]

The use of soil in the substrate certainly is a viable option as Ralph and Chavez have pointed out. I've seen Chavez's tanks first hand and have to say that soil will grow the heck out of some plants. His fish usually look good too... 8)

That being said I don't believe Ms. Walstead's methods of minimal filtration and water changes (if any) would be to the benefit of Discus. It's never a bad thing to educate yourself and take what you feel to be the best of what you've learned to apply to your own aquariums. Just be careful, please. That's my caveat and I'm sticking to it. ;D

[wall_o_fish]

Yeah Biotypical, that's the concern I have too: how will minimal water changes affect discus?

Ralph, do you do big water changes on the planted discus tank you described, or do you follow Walstad's lower water change practice? I could maybe see minimal changes if there was a very well-established plant community and a very low discus-to-gallons ratio (1 to 40, maybe?).

Interested,

scott

[Ralph]

Phil's right on this, Diane didn't mention discus once in her book and we all know the special needs of discus. We have to adapt her recommendations to our discus tanks and one of the things I do Scott is exactly what you mentioned. I have two discus in the fifty gal (along with rummies and hatchets) which is a very light fish load allowing me to keep WCs to a minimum (I do about 20% two or three times per week). But the discus are breeding like crazy, they lay eggs weekly, which they eat weekly (they are still young).
My lighting is a two bulb shop light but the tank is near a window that gets morning light (filtered). Sunlight is a traditional taboo for aquariums but I think she mentions it as a possiblity.
That is the reason I liked her book so much, she took the many aquarium truisms and actually looked at them scientifically to see if they were actually true.

Anytime you vary from the traditional discus tank, keep a good eye on your fish, they will let you know if they aren't doing well. And have a backup tank in case they don't do well.

[wall_o_fish]

Ralph --

Thanks for the very specific details. You answered all my Q's. I like the idea of putting a young pair in a planted tank and doing light water changes (20-30%, 3 times a week).

scott

I have read Diane walstad book and use top soil . top soil is what her book says to use. The differance between top soil and potting soil is : top soil come from compost and potting soil is sand base. And potting soil can have other thing add to it like pearlite ,vermiculite ,and some other nasty thing like fertilizers and cemicals.Top soil should be all natural. I would not use a newly set up tank for discus useing this method because during the break-in period the soil leach out alot thing . Break- in period is about 6 months dipending on the size of the tank . the larger the tank the longer the period . My tanks have been set-up for two years now. and have no trouble with discus in my 120 . hope this helps.

[wall_o_fish]

Great input, Discus Dreamer.

Thanks to all who've added their .02 worth to this thread. I'm thinking of doing a 55-gal planted tank with a young breeder pair, and this'll help me get it right! Sounds like there're lots of well-informed and experienced people on planted tanks here.

scott