Ph Buffers

[dred]

Hi folks,

I'm in the planning stages of a Discus setup.

So, let me tell you about the water I'm gonna have to deal with.

pH is 8.2
KH is <5d
GH is <1d (sorry no German scale figure)
and the water has each of chlorine, chloramine, phosphates and nitrate straight from the tap (no measures available, but I know they are there).

So, basically it seems that my water source is well buffered to hold at a pH of 8+. I'm new at this game of altering pH and simultaneously targeting soft water. And, I've noted that the general method is to strip the water of everything and rebuild it (RO or DI + supplements). And, I will admit that I'm lazy. I anticipate a 50 gal/day water demand very shortly (plans).

Will an acid buffer adversely affect the water hardness? Or is my water soft enough to go the buffer route? Any brilliant ideas for a low cost method of stripping the chlorine and chloramine, and then dropping the pH to a more Discus friendly level? I would ideally like to create a system that only requires that I monitor the storage tank to verify that it's functioning properly.

Thanks in advance, Milton

[jeep]

First of all, is your ph 8.2 out of the tap or is that aged for 24 hours? Aged water is the crucial measurement.

Using acid buffers is tricky business. Make sure you know what you're doing and what to do in the event of a ph crash.

Your water is pretty high in kh for such soft water. Are you sure of your readings?

My water is 8.2ph aged and I don't have problems with my discus. I use straight tap for non-breeders and reconstituted RO for breeders.

I think you're fine for grow-outs...

[dred]

Jeep thanks.

Yes, it's 8.2 from the tap. It's also 8.2 after days and days of cycling in a little 6er (aerated and power filtered at about 78 degrees F) I setup to do water quality experiments on. I haven't attempted to move the pH yet, I wanted to really verify it's stability.

Regarding my confidence in the readings - thanks for asking - just reread the test kit instructions. I was wrong. Expecting the wrong color indicator <LOL>. Retesting both tap and aged water I find GH of 8. And, since I had to pick up the instructions again, I now know these are German degrees. It's an American Pharmaceuticals Kit if that makes interpretation easier.

BTW, thanks for challenging - it didn't make sense to me either, but I figured I was still learning. Guess I need to read all the test kit instructions from now on <LOL>.

milton

[jeep]

You may want to invest in a TDS meter. RandallB has them for sale here at a nice price...

Good luck!

Hi Milton,

i am no expert and i know that this has been said before.

You don't need to change anything, unless you plan on raising fry.

But if you are firm on your decision about soft water and low pH, i would suggest R/O unit.

Nowadays they are cheap and produce quite a bit of pure water.

good luck

alex

[Carol_Roberts]

Water chemistry is not my strong point. I think that while GH 8, and pH 8.2 is high, it will be less of a problem for growing out juveniles than your chloramines and nitrates. With adults you might even be able to get small hatches. I've hatched eggs in GH 7 and pH 7.8 with 80+ fry.

You sound like the kind of guy who likes to expoeriment. You'll have to let us know what works best in your water.

[dred]

Jeep and Alex, thanks again.

You know? I've discovered [again] that plans change quickly in the process of discovery. That's what I love about planning <smile>. I ventured out of the beginer forum a little while ago and discovered that there is an entire water chemistry forum <smile>.

But, for the fry situation ... honestly, yes, I very much look forward to watching my Discus raise fry.

So, on the water chemistry page, I finally learned about what a RO filter is/does. I actually have one in my garage that I packratted when I installed a new refrigerator/freezer for my father. He had RO, but I talked him into taking it down since he never maintained it, and the flow had fallen to less than the normal trickle.

My biggest objection to RO was the quantity of waste (flush) water. What I learned that was most interesting is that the waste water isn't toxic, and doesn't absolutely need to be disgarded. So, now I'm gonna get the setup going so I can test for myself (just the RO for now).

So much to learn <smile>. And, thanks again.

Oh, and jeep - I love tools and gadgets. I've got pH and TDS gadgets on my list - I'd rather recharge batteries than consume expensive chemicals <LOL>.

Great,

hope everything works out ok.

alex

[dred]

Wow, Carol, you snuck in there <smile>.

And, you pegged it - tinkering is definately one of my vices. In fact, that's one of the reasons I really need a firm plan for this water thing. If I don't have it systematized, I will experiment - and, that might not be fun for my fishies, so ...

But, I really want to thank you for your contributions. The really stand out and they are allready all mixed up into what I think I know about keeping Discus safe and happy. Thanks for the dedication, the commitment and the willingness to share.

milton

[jeep]

Milton,

If you like your gadgets, take a look at Hanna's combo meter. It's an all-in-one meter and Randall has them for sale at an excellent price.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=8099