W/c's - best way to replace water?

[lesley]

???
Hi guys, am new to Discus (six weeks proud owner). When I replace the water although my Discus now just shelter under their driftwood and wait patiently (at first they were very stressed) it seems that there should be a better way. I use a bucket and slowly tip warmed water in.

How do other people do this and how do you heat the water first?

[Mike_Selley]

Hi Lesley!

Congratulations on your first 6 weeks of successful discus keeping!! I do my water changes from a 55 gal drum I got from the Pepsi plant that has a heater and a power head in it to agitate the water. I used to use a 32 gal. Rubbermaid trash can with heater, pump, and airstone. When I fill the barell at night my ph out of the tap is 7.0. After the water sits and aerates for 7 or 8 hours, the ph is 7.6, which is exactly what my tank ph is. Since the storage water has the same ph and temp as my tank water, I can make massive water changes without it stressing my discus at all. The other night I had a discus that seemed to get picked on by everyone else and looked like it was getting sick. That night instead of 50%change like I usually do, I changed about 80-90%. After a couple nights of these changes the little discus has almost become the tank bully! :)

[Carol_Roberts]

Good description Mike.

Another back and timesaver is a water pump. You can pump directly from your water storage into tank . . . . no more buckets!

Here is an index with information on many topics. Scroll down to the bottom, you'll find three on water changes.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=7983

[April]

hi Lesley. i use a pond pump . magdrive on the end of a rubber hose. i pump in and pump out. just watch though.as it goes fast.
way easier.
but yes..if you can store water they may accept it better as your ph would match better. check your ph out of the tap and check your ph in the tank. it may be the difference that is bothering them. are you adding conditioner?
are they showing any slime coat coming off in and floating up after a change? usually a change in ph etc that causes that and makes them do that. so another thing you can watch for.

[Shari]

Lesley - me too with the buckets - I hose out of the tanks (except during vacuming it's manual also, but replace the old fashioned way - though I will be changing that and getting a simple Home Depot attachment for the faucet along with new hose. I use a thermometer to be sure tap is same temp as tank, (in my house no one is allowed to flush while I'm doing water or it comes out cold) haha! anyway fill bucket using a bit of Prime for chlorine removal etc and that's about it.

[Very Fishy]

I am part of the bucket brigade...aged water storage container in basement, carry buckets of water upstairs to living room where tank is. Good way to get my excerise !! :bounce2: I dream at night of eventually setting up a fish room. :D

[Fisheyes]

Ban the Bucket .
Who ever invented those back breaking things should be held under water with the fish LOL :spank:

At 61 I got fed up hauling 60 gal. of water to pour down the toilet and then 60gal again to fill the tanks .I soon realised although I love these fish that I was not going to bust
my *** every morning seven days a week after all that is not what retirement is about.So I went to home depot and bought a pump to fill the tanks with . First I pre mix in a holding tank then walla flip the switch and go have a coffee or syphon another tank.
Thanks to April I am know going to buy another pump to syphon out .( just using a hose is to slow) but April said to watch out for hickeys on the fish . :yikes:
Fisheyes :crazy:

[larry lob]

Hi,

B4 i made an overflow drainage system i use to get a long hose trap it in the sink and syphon out the water and poop straight down the plug.

Then i have an eihem water pump in my rubber maid with aged water, flick that switch and it's sorted.

Now with the over flow straight out to the drain the pump is on a timer and it changes while i sleep.

I still manualy syphon poop but it's easy.

HTH

Larry ;D ;D

[RAWesolowski]

Lesley,

I use a python and do my changes straight from the tap with a bit of Prime to neutralize chlorine/chloramine. Temper water by touch and thermometer. Python siphons water directly to faucet.

Danger is distraction and overfilling the tank... DOH!

[lesley]

;D

Thanks guys, I knew there had to be a better way!!! The Discus may still be remembering the first few times when I used cold water and are curling up their fins and going ouch in anticipation! I expect that they will soon by swimming up in anticipation going goody, goody.

Many thanks for your help

[Mike_Selley]

As I said earlier, I age my WC water in a 55 gal. barell for my smaller tanks. My 125 I just change from the tap, but I only do like 25% at a time. Since my faucet ph is 7.0 and all my tanks ph are 7.6 could I do a bigger water change from the tap on my 125? I think if I calculated correctly we would be talking about a .3 drop in ph with a 50% change. The 25% change doesn't seem to bother them at all. :)

THANKS!

[RAWesolowski]

Mike,

I think your math is accurate on the pH differential. Out of curiosity, I would test your pH, Gh and Kh begore a 50% tap change then a half hour after a 50% tap change. You should be able to get a pretty good idea of the differences in your water parameters. If you have a conductivity meter, I would include that in your readings.

Key to the tap change for me is adding something to neutralize chlorine/chloramines and maintaining a minor change in water temps. Prime has worked well for me though I get some de-gassing when I do water changes in cold weather, I live in Michigan.

I had a chance to talk with Cary Strong of Great Lakes Discus. He does straight tap changes and sometimes gives his fish a sharp temp drop to encourage spawning. Seems the dramatic change in temp or other parameters resets or triggers their biological clocks.

[Carol_Roberts]

Your discus might not like a rapid .3 drop in pH. Try 33% and see how they react. If that works try 40% the next time, etc. Maybe you can do 50% from the tap, maybe not.

[lesley]

It's great to hear what everyone does.

With regard to not heating the water, any idea what sort of temperature drops we are talking here? And what percentage of water would be being changed if you were not heating the water? Would they be subject to dramatic water temperature differences in their native habitats?

[Nightowl]

Hi Lesley! Am a brand new member of forum!RE: drops in temp,it is true that for pairs it can stimulate spawning,but I don't think it's a large drop that's incurred. Have read that discus in wild stay at water surface at night to stay warm,hence easy pickins' for fishermen w/flashlights & nets! Also imo young fish are sensitive to temp.drops. Must echo other members suggestions of a water barrel(20 gal.tank?) and a pump for w/c's.Fish will get in the flow after a while. Take care and good luck w/your new fish! J.(Nightowl)

[Carol_Roberts]

I try to keep my change water very close in temperature to the tank water. Cooler water may induce spawing when used once or twice. Large daily infusions of cold water will induce hex. Discus don't like the stress of temperature fluctuations either.

[dred]

Hehe,

I'm currently doing the wet run on my water change system. It is using dripper and an overflow.

Since I'm gonna bring home some Discus (maybe tomorrow <smiling>), I wanted to make sure my laziness wasn't gonna be reflected by their water quality.

I stole the prefilters from my RO unit (actually, just T'd in before the membrane) so that I get highly filtered/dechlorinated water with just a trace of ammonia right from the tap. The ammonia is amost instantly converted by the bio filter. This in tank conversion will be replaced by in holding tank conversion within the next couple days.

This is very easy to set up, and their are numerous plans for overflows, etc. in the DIY section. There are advantages and disadvantages to the drip/overflow change system, but it is definately something even a newbie can consider. The toughest part is plumbing the waste water (you need someplace to send it).

milton

[FrankLuvsDiscus]

;)I use an tap water aging setup,, i have a 32g rubbermaid trash can that i fill up to the rim and condition the water with peat moss and ariate it with a pond pump and i heat it to the matching temp, make sure ph is same of my tank and when i w/c i just use the pump and a long hose to fill tank up once i've drained what i want out. Its so easy and smooth its killer and i don't get water all over the place .... my discus hardly even notice i've done I w/c (well im sure they do they notice everything) it doesn't upset them.

[lesley]

Hi Frank,

do you just suspend the peat moss in the water??

Thanks to all the helpful suggestions, I am looking forward to some stress free water changes :sleep:

[FrankLuvsDiscus]

;D Yeah , I suspend it using a nylon stocking it works great!! That reminds me i need to change it tonight. If you go this route its really cool, but you have to change the peat moss around every two weeks. Or as soon as the water loses its "yellowish" tint. Peat moss causes the water to take on a yellow color to it , its natural and the discus like it ,its tanins being released into the water that soften it and are supposed to lower ph, i think it softens but not so sure about lowering ph, i think the softening allows the ph to be manipulated easier.....

Its all about changing the water chemistry or parameters of several different things.....

Anyhow have fun !
Franko

[Bruce]

I hear a lot about storage barrels in a storage room or outside the home somewhere . . . but I prefer a different method.

This is my first Discus tank, but I think from now on I will plan for a secondary storage tank directly below it. What I believe is a must is permanent plumbing to support the fresh water intake and waste water removal procedures. I use sched 40, 1/2" pvc piping and 500gph supreme mag pumps to both fill the upper tank from storage(submerged), as well as to hasten removal of such large quantities of waste water (inline, outside of tank). Most aquarium stands won't accommodate a secondary aquarium of 65 or 75% of the main aquarium, but I build all of my own stands anyway, so I can make sure there is plenty of room for the storage tank by keeping the lower portion of the stand free from structural obstructions. Making my own stands also allows me to make them like a table so that it can accommodate a computer or a reading area in front of the aquarium, and serves multiple functions if I ever get rid of the tank.

Currently, the set consists of a custom 58 gal main tank, and a 40 gal storage tank. I run the pvc intake from the rear lawn sprinklers and output to the garden area alongside the house. I'll be running a tee with a ball valve to redirect the flow to a clean-out sewer access plug so I don't get a moss/saturated soil problem in the long run.

The end result is that I can flip a lever, press a button and wait 3-4 minutes to evacuate the waste water, do it again to transfer the aged water, and turn the tap for a couple of minutes to refill the storage tanks. I do this all while sipping coffee and browsing the L.A. Times on the internet before leaving for work. If I had to do the bucket thing for large tanks (and all discus display tanks are large or giant) I don't think I could even entertain the thought of Discus in the home.

[Bruce]

The waste water removal pump is mounted on the stand to save interior tank space (the supreme magdrive is usable both inline and submerged, but as a centrifugal pump, it can't prime when above the water, must be below water line). Rigid black pvc is run to the top and then to the inside bottom of the tank, held by a tronic heater guard, which acts as both a suction mount holding it in the proper position, and as a strainer.

[Bruce]

The valve on the left controls the intake from the sprinkler tap and fills the storage tank very quickly. The only issue is that I think I would save a lot of electrical use if I created a secondary tap from a hot water line. I'd probably call for a plumber to help with that, but my wife thinks my obsession has gone to far already and probably won't want me re-doing the entire house plumbing to provide warm water to every room in the house. I was thinking to have a super small electric water heater installed on the outside of the house to provide a supply of water preheated to 85deg. Will need to look into that.

[Bruce]

To monitor temperature status of the tank set, I found it easier on the eyes and pocket book to use these $13 digital in/out thermometers. The display is large and lets me compare temperatures between the two tanks more easily.

[keith_cny]

Bruce,
Did you consider using a mixing valve with your present water lines? Run hot and cold into it and set it for the right mix (temp). Then you would need to just run one line to your tank (or tanks) to refill any storage container at a nice consistent preset temperature. Mixing valves are not cheap but should be a heck of alot cheaper than an additional water heater and twice the plumbing.

Keith

[lesley]

Hi Bruce,

that is an impressive set up.

Are there any worries with using water from the hot water service? I had always thought that the tanks were copper and that this was not recommended?

[Carol_Roberts]

I use a mix of hot and cold water to fill my storage barrels

[Fisheyes]

Yaaaaaaa
No more *** bustinbucket liften back breakin water changes for me anymore .Today I went to Home depot and bought two bur cam pumps and a few fittings .One for in and one for out .yippeeee.
Now the toughest thing I have to do for 7 tanks is unscrew a few couplings Yahoooo
Fisheyes( :rolleyes: :bounce: :bounce2: :thumbsup:

[Carol_Roberts]

Well, it's about time Fisheyes! What took you so long :P

[Bruce]

Hi Bruce,

that is an impressive set up.

Are there any worries with using water from the hot water service? I had always thought that the tanks were copper and that this was not recommended?



Hey Lesley,

Yes, household heating tanks are made of copper. But . . so is the entire pressurized house plumbling. My understanding is that all modern homes are built with copper plumbing pipes, and most homes built before the use of copper (mid- 1970's?)have been retrofitted with copper by the owner, as galvanized steel piping gets really ugly on the inside, you can even see the chunks of corrosion in a white-colored mug of tap water. I don't think you need to worry about the water becoming bad from copper issues. I think the issue is getting this warm water from the heater to the tank. In my case, using a mixing valve still requires custom plumbing through the house as my heater is in the center of the house.

[BaileyF]

Love this thread, it gave me so many good ideas!

I think i'll be having my father install a garden hose style faucet behind my tank set up(will be interesting to explain when i go to resell my house why i have a garden hose in my living room) .... place a 29 gal with an air pump and a heater under my stand under the faucet and invest in a longer hose for my vacuum to send everything right out of the window..... i'm so sick of buckets and this would give me enough to do a 20-40% water change daily without buckets...

[Rash]

Awesome Ideas.

Im planning for a slighly different setup, no pumps at all.
The barrel will be elivated above the tank say around 2 to 3 ft in a different room and will be below my overhead tank which is on the terrace.

Barrel intake will be connected to a tap. A valve will be connected between the barrel outlet and tank inlet for refilling the tank, so i can avoid the use of pumps.

Only concern is access to the barrel for cleaning and other purpose will be lil difficult compared to, if the barrel was on the ground.

[Mikemeets]

Im doing the bucket hauling myself lol got a 45 gallon tank with a 45gallon storage bucket in my kitchen... i only put water in with hot water to get temp right with water conditioner and let it stand 24-48 hours, do 50% water changes per day... but think im going to start putting in a powerhead in my barrel with a heater from now on, getting the temp right from the geazer is a headache when all u needed was a heater in our drum lol but still gonna do the bucket method... pumps aint cheap here by me lol but got a powerhead i can use to pump water out but not back in haha

[Buckshot]

cloud9aquariums has a video on it on YouTube.

[tnoble]

I had never thought to do it any other way then buckets until I started to research into discus and thought how am I going to do large bi-daily water changes of a 320L tank cheap pond pump off ebay some hose from hardware shop and a 200L drum. Just got it all together now to see that it all works well I can't wait not to have to lug hundreds of litres a water!

[dragon1974]

Had enough of the buckets....Been there done that. I have 3 pumps, 2 in my fresh water returns (3 barrels 2 55 gals and 1 45 gal) and I use the 3 as part of the jehmco setup (http://www.jehmco.com/html/safety_siphon_aquarium_drain.html)

The jehmco takes the water out of the tank to the lawn during the spring/summer/fall months and in the winter it goes to the drain.

Had a friend rig up an on/off switch on an extension cord and I just bring the fresh water return lines to the tanks and I refill in 3 mins. Takes about an hour for me to clean/refill 3 75 gals.

Before it would take me hours with the buckets but now I can do so much more with the semi-hands free method.

I think the total automated water changes takes the fun out of the hobby, but for me the way I do it, I still get to bond with the fish and interact with them and they're not afraid of seeing shadows etc.

JM2C