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ronrca
05-07-2003, 02:42 PM
History

Last summer, after frequenting simplydiscus a couple of weeks, I became obsessed (my wife’s terminology) with designing and constructing a mini rack system as I call it. This is to be a ‘trial and error’ or test system in the spare bedroom for a number of reasons. First being limited in space and second eventually developing a dedicated fish room in the basement once my wife decides not to rent it out anymore (yes, my wife’s decision as I would be in the basement already). Naturally, I wanted something that would not cost a fortune however I quickly came to the conclusion that I would have to either learn to build the tanks myself or buy tanks over a period of time. Projecting the cost of buying tanks for the fish room came to hundreds/thousands of dollars just for the tanks, never mind rack materials, filters, heaters, etc, etc! I more or less became discouraged however was still determined to continue.

Then I met Dwayne Urban aka Smokey in southern Alberta! I don’t know how many e-mails we have sent since October 2002. Lots and lots! Smokey taught me how to make tanks from scratch utilizing used glass, most of the time free glass (my dad actually had a 4’x8’ double pane window, 6mm)! That was the first step. Next came the principle of minimizing maintenance, water overflow, water distribution, etc, etc! Well…..you will see the end product!

Many, many thanks to Smokey for your countless hours of typing e-mails, answering questions and just plain putting up with me bothering you over the last 7-8 months. I owe you a lot of discus (btw, some are in the mail already)!

Also, thanks to daninthesand and DaveC for sharing knowledge and info (dan, I love the fillpro).

Background

Everyone’s dream rack is one where maintenance is minimum, myself included. This ‘minimum maintenance’ for me is feces being sucked out of the tanks automatically and auto water changes. Well, the first part has been taken care of as you will see in the pics! The second part, the auto water changes, will be coming later once I save up some cash for limit switches, levels sensors, solenoid valves, timers, etc!

Anyways, the pics! You will find a few pics showing the overall rack system at

http://photos.yahoo.com/ronr_ca

Go under the folder – Fishroom and you will find 11 pics (the first 11 I believe)!
More detailed pics will follow later this week/next week! The pics on screen are very small. You can download them for much bigger size!

Of course, please offer any suggestions/concerns! I would love to hear how I can improve it and later when I do construct the fish room, I will have most of the issues ironed out! There are a few minor things I have to do yet like insulate the sumps.

The Rack System

Lets go to the first pic Rack system wo top rack!
This rack system at the moment is intended for 6 tanks (future is 8 tanks). I only have connected 3 tanks at the moment however the principle is the same for both shelves. The system works on the overflow method as you can see the bulkheads in the back of the tanks. The tanks are 24” deep x 15” wide x 15” high inside dimensions roughly equaling 19.5G if totally full! The rack is 51.5” wide x 25” deep x 90” high. Between the top of the tanks and the bottom of the next shelve is 8.25”. I do have a detail drawing of the rack with material list! Lets continue.

Sumps! Mag 9 pumps inside
In this pic you can see 2 40G Rubbermaid sumps on the bottom. In each of the sumps there is a Mag 950 pump plus heaters. Basically, the tanks will overflow into the sumps and be pumped up to a biofilter/manifold. The two separate sumps will work really good when I have different water conditions because they are kept separate. You can also see to ball valves just under the shelve. These are for incoming water from the storage barrels by which they would fill the sumps after draining them.

Middle Rack
How this works is water enters the tank thru the clear pipes seen in the front extending all the way up to the bottom of the next shelve. These pipes are only a couple of mm from the bottom of the tank. I cut one V at the bottom of the pipe thus allowing me to turn the clear pipe and creating a strong current sweeping any feces to the back of the tank (it really works).

Top Rack w biofilter
Here you can see that the top rack isn’t complete however it shows the biofilters/manifold/distribution for the tanks. Water exits the biofilter from the front, runs down the side of the rack and under the shelve to each of the tanks. This is shown clearer in the next pic.

Water pipes into the tanks
As the water exits the biofilter, it runs down the pipes into the tanks. Each pipe has a ball valve to control the water flow or even isolate a tank for whatever reason.

Back! Overflows and filter
In this pic you can see the overflows on the tanks a little better. I will get into that in a different pic. You can also see the overflows exiting into a underside down 5G water bottle jug. Boy, that works really good. I cut the bottom off, inverted it, and stuffed it full of foam. Of course the neck of the jug fits quite snug into the top of the sump allowing it to drain nicely. I also fasten the jug to the rack so that it will not tip over. The basket is kind of like a pre-filter intended to be easily removed, rinsed and replaced as feces will collect in this pre-filter. Next to or in front of the jug there is the pipe exiting the sump, going all the way up to the biofilters. I didn’t get a very good pic but there is a T in the vertical pipe (very top of pic) with a ball valve and pipe continuing horizontally across the back of the rack. This horizontal pipe connects to the drain thus when the ball valve is opened, the water pumps into the drain instead of up to the biofilters.

Water into biofilter from sump
This pic shows the vertical pipe from the sump all the way up to the biofilter

Close up of tank layout
Now, on to the overflow principle. The right hand side is ½” pipe and serves as an overflow and surface skimmer. These have ball valves to control the water flow as you don’t necessarily want the majority of the water exiting out the top.
-***The left hand side is 1” pipe. The connectors are starting from the front:
o***A reduce 90 (1” to ¾” or ½”). This acts to break any siphoning that may occur when the pump is off and no water enters the tank.
o***T connector. You can see a another clear pipe again extending down to the bottom of the tank. The bottom has little V’s cut all around the diameter of the pipe. This will create the suction intended to suck feces out from the tank.
o***The bulkhead. I use the oversized rubber gaskets btw.

Drain-top! New water-bottom
The horizontal pipe with ball valve described earlier T’ing from the vertical pipe exiting the sumps ends just beyond the rack and continues via a poly flex pipe (the top pipes) to wherever I remember to place the other end, normally the drain. At the bottom you can see the connection from the storage barrels via ¾” bowpex pipe. The other end is connected to a Rio 1700 pump inside the storage barrel where the water is heated, aerated and treated. You can also see another storage barrel for future beside the rack. Again, once I start using different water parameters (breeding), the isolated sumps and barrels will make it very easy. The storage barrel I'm currently using is shown in other pics after the rack pics.

Closeup of biofilter
As you can see, the water from the sump enters the biofiler from the back on top. Inside the biofilter is a spray bar shown by the T. Then comes the foams, dividers and the bulkheads where the water exits to the tanks at the bottom.

System running
This is just a pic of the pump on. You can see water in the clear pipes. These clear pipes also aerate the water seen by the bubbles in the clear pipes.

Pipes under shelf
This pic shows the pipe running under the shelf to each tank

Detail of new water in
Here you see the valves for water in from the storage barrels. You can see 2 valves. The ‘black’ valve is actually an isolation valve. When this valve is closed, the two sumps are isolated.

Detail new water in 2
Close up of the connection for the water from the storage barrels. There are two connections for 2 barrels and 2 different water parameters (just turn the black valve under the shelf).

Detail of filter jug
A close up of the inverted water jug acting as a filter. It full of foam! I removed the basket because it was difficult to remove.

Detail of drain
This pic shows the valves and pipes clearer

Detail of drain 2
Close up of the drain connection

Tank detail showing plexi
One of the interesting design with these tanks is that they incorporate a 4” plexi glass insert instead of having to drill glass. Wow, is this ever convenient and much cheaper than having to purchase glass drill bits/hole saws.

Tank detail showing plexi 2
The tank height is 15” therefore the bottom piece is 11” glass and the top 4” plexi. Because the plexi is at the good, there is not much water pressure on the plexi/glass joints. The two pieces are butted together and there is a 1” strip of plexi across the joint. This 1” plexi strip has 2 rows of small holes drill every 1” or so. This allows the silicon to be squeezed thru the holes and providing a much stronger and reinforced joint. If interested, I can get even detailed pics if requested.

Inside sump
Here you can see the Mag 950 pump, the jug entering the sump and a basket with more filtering (also to lessen the noise of water falling from the jug filter into the sump).

Inside sump 2
Another pic of the sump. The lid I cut in half so I can open it!

The last pic
The super model that has not been recognized yet! LOL! Hey, at least discus are not fussy about looks! LOL!

If anyone has questions or would like more pics, let me know!

henryD
05-07-2003, 03:17 PM
Wow I am impressed.

That is a great job. I know who to bug when I want to build my own system.

heavyp83
05-07-2003, 04:31 PM
the link to the fishroom didn't work for me. geez i really am itching to see it too

Ardan
05-07-2003, 05:25 PM
Looks Great!!!! 8) :)

shorthair
05-07-2003, 07:27 PM
Very nice setup ronrca :thumbsup: I hope you and smokey are around when I decide to build a rack. ;D ;D Devin

daninthesand
05-07-2003, 10:14 PM
A great setup. let us know how it works as far as REALLY getting rid of the bottom crap. would love to hear how it goes with a load of fish in there. good job!

Daniel

ronrca
05-08-2003, 11:52 AM
Updated with 11 more pics! See description above! ;)

Jason
05-08-2003, 12:13 PM
Look's fantastic!

I agree Smokey is the best, whenever I get a new Idea or want to try something, he's the first guy I consult!

05-10-2003, 10:40 PM
Very nice setup Ron, makes all the wc's look so easy ;D

After i move im abducting you and smoke and locking you in the fishroom til i see some of those. Never blessed with good wood working skills, cut the board twice and its still too damn short!

Smokey
05-11-2003, 03:50 AM
so blkwolfe ... how many fingers ya still got ???? lol

H Tran
05-11-2003, 07:49 PM
Great system!


Close up of tank layout
Now, on to the overflow principle. The right hand side is ½” pipe and serves as an overflow and surface skimmer. These have ball valves to control the water flow as you don’t necessarily want the majority of the water exiting out the top.
- The left hand side is 1” pipe. The connectors are starting from the front:
o A reduce 90 (1” to ¾” or ½”). This acts to break any siphoning that may occur when the pump is off and no water enters the tank.
o T connector. You can see a another clear pipe again extending down to the bottom of the tank. The bottom has little V’s cut all around the diameter of the pipe. This will create the suction intended to suck feces out from the tank

Can you please explain more on how all these work? Especially, the last section regarding "suction of fences": How does it work? Does the suction happen automatically when the water rise to that level?

Thanks

H Tran

Smokey
05-12-2003, 03:43 AM
ShortHair; it is never too early OR to late to start to plan for a ''RACK SYSTEM''.
Everyone must understand that a rack is only the container for the aquariums. As the aquarariums are only the container for the water.

WATER is the container for the ''DISCUS''. Good healthy clean water!!! ahh the magic ingredient.

H Tran - perhaps I can be of help with your question. It is actually very simple. see draft below - [blkwolfe post]
Water will flow up the clear rigid pipe under its own pressure. The 90 elbow, actuall should be facing upwards. The 90 elbow allows for air , to break any actuall syphoning, preventing the tank from empting.
Believe it or not it works extremely well.


Smokey

05-12-2003, 03:44 AM
Heh smoke, long as i got enough left to hold a beer in one hand and a cigar in the other im not complaining. Oh yeah, and hold a hose for wc's ::)

05-12-2003, 04:26 AM
Pic courtesy of Smokey:

H Tran
05-12-2003, 08:49 PM
Thanks Smokey and BlkWolf. I do have a couple more questions, if you don't mind... :)

1) The overflow. I assume it should be place higher than the siphoning unit. The question is, "How much higher?"

2)
Next to or in front of the jug there is the pipe exiting the sump, going all the way up to the biofilters. I didn’t get a very good pic but there is a T in the vertical pipe (very top of pic) with a ball valve and pipe continuing horizontally across the back of the rack. This horizontal pipe connects to the drain thus when the ball valve is opened, the water pumps into the drain instead of up to the biofilters.
And


Drain-top! New water-bottom
The horizontal pipe with ball valve described earlier T’ing from the vertical pipe exiting the sumps ends just beyond the rack and continues via a poly flex pipe (the top pipes) to wherever I remember to place the other end, normally the drain. At the bottom you can see the connection from the storage barrels via ¾” bowpex pipe. The other end is connected to a Rio 1700 pump inside the storage barrel where the water is heated, aerated and treated. You can also see another storage barrel for future beside the rack. Again, once I start using different water parameters (breeding), the isolated sumps and barrels will make it very easy. The storage barrel I'm currently using is shown in other pics after the rack pics.

Again, how does this work? Please, give more details and diagrams if posible.

I am sorry for all these elementary questions, but I really do have great interest in understanding this whole sytem and how it works. ;D

Thanks,

H Tran

mahojazz
05-13-2003, 02:28 AM
hi, i have questions too. will the water current be too strong for the discus? can these setup be used for breeding? i am very interested in the setup. :)

Smokey
05-13-2003, 04:29 AM
Actually, the reason I developed this method was for breeding. The water current can be adjusted - flow rate.
The flow rate of water entering the tank, directly eguals the water current; water exiting the tank.
Actually - syphoning is an incorrect term. The water mearly flows up through the vertical tube to exit.

IMPORTANT - the tank must be drilled. I did try other methods, an actual syphoning hang on unit. Unreliable in the long run. Air bubbes, power outages, unable to contol water flow, etc.

A sump is also incorperated into this design. As is an overhead BIO-FILTER.

Very similar to a canister style filter design. EXCEPT - this design is open to the atmosphere, and is fully adjustable.

When wigglers are in the tank, the flow rate can be minimized and a sponge is placed at the bottom of the vertical tube. No fry get sucked up.

Smokey

mahojazz
05-13-2003, 10:45 AM
wow. thanks smokey. get the idea of how this design works. great job. but i still have some worries abt this setup using central filtration. as water is so called circulated to all tanks. if ever diseases breakout, hm, will have problem fixing. ???

ronrca
05-13-2003, 10:54 AM
You have a good point about disease. The tip is not allowing disease to occur in the first place by providing clean water, stable environment and good food. Each tank can be isolated from the system via the ball valves and also drain seperatly by adjusting the overflow pipes. This system would not be like a centralized filteration system as you would only have 3-4 tanks on one filter. In my case, the 3 on the middle shelf are separate from the top shelf.

I did take your concern into consideration and it was a decision between the ease of maintenance and disease. Well, compared to having 6 tanks with separate filters/heaters and the time associated with cleaning each filter, this system quickly won my assurance. Instead of cleaning 6 filters, now only 1! Instead of having 6 heaters, I only use 4-5! Instead of vacuuming/draining/filling 6 tanks, the sump does it all for me.

H Tran
Does this answer your questions? Feel free to ask if not! Anything in particular perhaps?

mahojazz
05-13-2003, 11:13 AM
thanks.

pvmuth
05-13-2003, 01:16 PM
Looks Great.

H Tran
05-13-2003, 01:40 PM
Ronca & Smokey,

I do think that this is an ingenious system. Still my questions has not been answer :(. Please, if you don't mind,reference to my last post and explain them to me a little bit more. Sorry for being a little slow in understanding how the entire process works. And that's my goal: To understand how the entire system works :D

Thanks,

H Tran

ronrca
05-13-2003, 02:02 PM
Hey! No problem at all! I'll give it a try!

First, the system solely works on the pump inside the sump. When the pump is off, nothing happens, no water goes anywhere. There is no siphoning happening.

Part 1
When the pump is turned on, water is pumped up all the way to the top where the biofilters are. The water then flows thru the foam to the bottom of the biofilter where it is distributed or divided into 3 pipes that flow into the tanks, filling the tanks.

Part 2
The water level keeps rising in the tanks until it reaches the bulkheads (overflows). At this point the water will overflow out the back of the tank into the inverter water jug also filled with foam. The bottom (actually the top) of the water jug drains into the sump again. This then goes back to part 1.

Now, the draining part. In the pipe that goes from the sump to the biofilter I have a T connector. From this T connector, I have a pipe continuing to the end of the rack with a valve. When I open the valve, the water will be pumped to the drain instead of the biofilter therefore emptying the sump.

The filling part! You can see a white pipe connecting on to the rack. This allows me to fill the sump again from my storage barrel.

Does this make sense? Feel free to ask questions! ;)

H Tran
05-13-2003, 04:09 PM
Ronrca,

Thanks for your quick reply ;).

Now, how do the overflow and the "siphon" out put positon to each other. I mean...Should they be at the same level or should one be higher than the other? And why? Also, does the water mainly go thru the over-flow or the siphoning unit?

Thanks,

H Tran

PS I might have more questions later ;D

ronrca
05-13-2003, 05:10 PM
Hey no problem!

To answer your question about the overflow and the siphoning unit! I dont really refer to it as siphoning thuogh because it really is not acting as a siphon but as an overflow. The bottom of the circles are inline with each other. Im not sure what the best position is but this is working fine. I may have to experiment with it some day.

The water flows mainly thru the 1" pipe rather than the 1/2" because I want the feces to be sucked up. If I open the valve on the 1/2" pipe, less water will flow thru the 1" pipe therefore not sucking the feces out as well.

HTH! ;)

Smokey
05-13-2003, 05:14 PM
Here is the way I set ''mine up''

The ''holes'' drilled in the lexan are the same distance from the top. Not the hole centre - but the top of the hole!
This allows for the same water level.

The main water goes through the ''siphining unit''. All the water can flow through this unit. The 90' Elbow , when adjusted to just allow the top surface of the tanks water, acts as a surface skimmer and a overflow .

The secondary overflow - is a back up and can be used to ''empty '' a tank - to a predesired level. When the valve is opened, as in Ronca system. On my system; 4 - 85 Liter tanks, I do not need to use the second overflow.

Ron is very correct; reguarding disease contamination.
Any individual tank can be isolated, just close a valve.
OR for when the disucs are breeding - water flow can be adjusted, to suit the discus.

This is not a quartiene system. HOWEVER; any individual tank can be isolated for just that purpose. Say for medicating, different ph/water valves/higher temperatures, etc.

Only a dedicated quaritene tank should be used for new discus OR if a discus needs to be isolated.

The one personal deturant for most hobbiest - the fear of disease contamination. From one tank to another. and YES - this is always a possibility when multy tanks are hooked together/ share common water.

It is up to the hobbiest to maintane clean safe water, in the first place.

Smokey

Smokey
05-13-2003, 05:21 PM
AHH - Ronca - did I FORGET TO MENTION -
.... ''HOW TO SUPER-CHARGE'' . Perhaps i did.

This minor addition increases the suction ability 100%. Great for when a person is cleaning the tank / or wishs to do a 40% tank water change.

Hehehehehehehe.

Smokey

ronrca
05-13-2003, 05:46 PM
Yes! You did mention how to 'super charge' using an airline in the T connection. I forgot about it until Sunday night! If I get the desire maybe I'll put one in a tank or two! LOL! ;D

Just to add to the disease part! When running many tanks, you can have a risk of spreading disease by not washing your hands after each tank plus keeping nets, pipes, filtering media, scrubbers, etc, etc separate. It can be done but who really does it 100% of the time. If you only have a few tanks ok but can you imagine if you had like 15+ tanks? WOW! Sure would take a long time to clean your tanks. Just a thought! ;)

Smokey
05-13-2003, 06:43 PM
Ron , I see you have a very good air pump!
The trick is to use a large airstone.
I use the penplax 2'' green airstones.

try it. all my 1.25 clear tubes have these stones inside them. I use them when I want to a wipedown, or a water change, when the sump is being emptyed, greater in volume than the sumps capacity.
Nice thing about this method .. the discus never know what is going on.

After all ... the less disturbance to the discus / the better.

Mine never know when a w/c is occuring. They just swin around as normal.

It is a great method for removing that little extra bit of ''waste''; that just seems to hang in the far corner. lol...

ex: say I am pumping 100 gallons per hour into a tank. Normal turnover rate for a 33 gallon tank. I deciede to do a wipedown of all glass surfaces. I increase the water flow ''in'' to 400 gph. I turn on the airstone; the extra water comming in is immediately taken out by the effect of the air stone. Plus it vacums out all debre, neat eh. Yes this is a very versatile setup.

Smokey

H Tran
05-13-2003, 07:24 PM
Hmmm....Super charger, eh? Mind sharing the secret? ;D

Any how, I have an idea (This might have crossed your mind already). How about remodify the reduce 90 (The main over flow) by adding a control "Knob"? Okay, from the inverted 90, we can add a short (1") pipe as a connector. Then we cap it. Now, let's drill a hole on a side of the cap thruogh the connector to create an air valve. Well, when we want to empty the tank, all we got to do is to twist the cap to close the air valve. This will create a suction phenomenon. This will help eliminate the second overflow. Had I made any sense?

Smokey, you are amazing... Before you done with one suprise, you tossed out an other!! Can you please share the "Air stone" secret?

Thanks,

HT

Smokey
05-13-2003, 07:34 PM
Tran; I have tried to e-mail ya! however it would not go through.

Would you post you address

Smokey
05-13-2003, 07:41 PM
Thank you for the kind words, Ron. It has been a pleasure to help you.

To the create-atures of simplydiscus; THANK YOU !!!

This is one of the most impressive sites. The most informative. The most createive. The most friendly.

Smokey

H Tran
05-13-2003, 08:10 PM
Smokey,

My email:

hdtran@sgtx.com

or

hiltontran@yahoo.com

I am looking forward to hear from you :)

H Tran

ronrca
05-14-2003, 10:43 AM
You have some good ideas Tran! I'll have to try it sometime. It may work! However, I tried using the 1" overflow as a siphon and it did not work! It probably because of air in the 1" overflow. That will be a problem unless you somehow get the air out of the pipes.

But, eliminating the second overflow? I actually wanted a backup overflow just in case the main overflow can not handle the water flow, gets plugged for whatever reason, etc, etc! I always like backups! ;D And, as Smokey mentioned, use the 1/2" as a siphon because I already have the valve on it.

Next, solenoid valves, timers = automatic waterchanges! LOL!

Smokey
05-16-2003, 04:19 AM
Total automation, eh. Great !
Then what artifical incemination ??? lol

A cam corder so you can watch from the office ???

lol

ChloroPhil
05-16-2003, 02:25 PM
Unfortunately for us any sump system has to have airflow in the intake system. It's just like trying to pour something out of a gas can without the little airhole open in the back. It will eventually cavitate and gurgle like mad. I've tried just about everything to reduce air intake in my planted systems and came to the realization that it's not possible to totally eliminate it, only reduce it.

A good way of reducing the suction sounds in a system like that is to drill a hole in the top of your outer elbow and silicone a piece of rigid tubing to allow the air to flow straight down the pipe rather than through the intake. Marineland has done something along these lines with their "Jetstream" system. It effectively allows the water to flow along the outside of the air.

Smokey
05-16-2003, 04:11 PM
H Tran; i sent you an e-mail; with a draft attached.
hope this clears up a few of your questions.

Smokey
.

Smokey
05-16-2003, 04:16 PM
mahojazz; Actually this methind can be used on a single tank. Not necessarrly for a connected system.
I have 20gallon units set up this way. Stand alone tanks.

What I like - is for example a 20 gallon tank can have a ''sump'' [ any container holding water]. equal to or even holding more water than the tank.


Ther is still one more method; which does not require the tank to be drilled.

Smokey

ronrca
05-16-2003, 04:24 PM
Biotypical,
Im not following you! Can you explain it again perhaps particularly the 'intake system'!

About the automation, coming closer and closer to actually doing something! ;)

Here's the start:
http://oeiwcsnts1.omron.com/pdfcatal.nsf/PDFLookupByUniqueID/E1A37FDDD134E51D86256BA7006537F6/$File/D11DS05P20402.pdf?OpenElement

Smokey
05-16-2003, 04:36 PM
Replying to Ronca's post # 22.

Ron is correct. AND - no water on the floor; no syphon break, no need to reprime a pump, tank REMAINS full fo water.

Part 1 - Remember - Ron has incorberated my BIO-TOWER@ DESIGN INTO HIS NEW MINI SYSTEM.
The BIO-TOWERS act as the MAIN bio-filteration stage.
From the towers, ron is able to divert water to any tank at any flow rate necessary.

Part 2 - actually , the water will FLOW- UP through the 1.5 inch clear rigid pipe , first. The secrete to this design. It literally vacums the debre from the bottom of the tank !!!

Ron's use of a 5 gallon water jug -- a bit of over-kill. BUT - what the heck. WE ARE MEN !!! GIVE US TOOLS. LOL

P.S. Ronca has used more valves than any ''normal plumber '' does in a life time. ;D ;D ;D ;)

Great thinking and planning. this gives him ''TOTAL'' control ove any and all water flow and volume.

One single pump does all this, and more.

In Rons latest e-mail; he mentions that only one [1] 250 watt heater is sufficient to heat all the water, and maintain a constant temperature.

He also mentioned something ''ELSE''

RON, TELL US ABOUT THE SOMETHIING ELSE ! EH!!!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Smokey

Smokey
05-16-2003, 04:42 PM
The link did not work for me , ron !!!
Smokey

ronrca
05-16-2003, 04:47 PM
Actually, its 2 heater! ;D 2 250W heaters heat 3 20G tanks and 1 40G sump!

I dont know why the link doesnt work! If you copy/paste it will work though! You also need acrobat reader!

Something else?????? :-[ smokey, what?

Smokey
05-16-2003, 04:57 PM
OOOPs, sorry ron. misunderstood .

something else - Hmmmmm - some thing about a phone call from you wife. Hehehehehe.

FRom the famous poem -

WATER WATER EVERY WHERE
BUT NAR A DROP TO DRINK

The Ancient mariner.

Smokey

ronrca
05-16-2003, 05:07 PM
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :P

Well, I guess the jug filter overflowed and water everywhere. I had not shown my wife where the plug for the pump was so she unplugged everything and I mean everything, heaters in my storage barrel, lighting, filters/heat/lights on my 30G with discus in it, etc! I guess I should of trained her. I had a good laugh though. The discus survived 72F. Whew!

I will be installing a couple of switches to make it easier to kill the system if needed. ;)

H Tran
05-16-2003, 05:11 PM
Hi Smokey,

Can you please resend it to both of my email? For some reason I did not receive it :'(

Thanks,

H Tran

Smokey
05-16-2003, 05:14 PM
Excuse me, Ron - but who will be training who. ha ;Dha ;Dha ;Dha ;Dha ;Dha ;Dha ;Dha ;) ;)


Just a suggestion - gettin water on your wifes carpets - BOY - this is going to cost you more than a just couple of pure solid color discus for her. lol.

Oh well, thank god women are so understanding [ of us MEN!!!].

Smokey

ronrca
05-16-2003, 05:27 PM
Well, my wife actually was thinking way before I was (nothing new). We tore out the carpet before I started building the rack system. Underneath the carpet are lino type tiles. No more wet, molding, stinky carpets. :D Much easier to mop up! :D

Smokey
05-17-2003, 10:48 AM
Ahhhh ... always think ahead. Good idea.

OK - you will have the weekend to ''FINE TUNE '' your set up/rack.

The pics were great, Ron.
Would you give more detail pics, of the actuall tank running. Sort of a visual water flow path.

Members are very interested in your accomplishment.

Try to post the pics in this post , if possible.

Smokey

ronrca
05-20-2003, 11:01 AM
Well, this weekend, long weekend actually, I continued to work on the system. The jug is now inside the sump instead of on top. No more overflowing! Works like a charm. I also connected some 1/2" pipe to the overflows and drained them 50%. The only problem is keeping the siphon. I think that the joints are leaking air into the pipes so I'll have to fix that yet. The nitrites and nitrates are off the scale so Im doing 2x daily water changes. I started connecting the top shelf so I'll be updating with pics once that is done.

I also added another 50G storage barrel into the closet therefore doubling the water storage capacity. Lots and lots of fun! ;D

O, btw! The pump is now on a switch and my wife knows where it is. So far she didnt have to use it! ;D

Check this link out. Kind of the same method Im using for removing debrie!
http://www.vantagepoolsystems.com.au/system.htm

Make sure you watch the movie! ;D

Smokey
05-21-2003, 01:41 AM
Yes, it is a simple as that. Now you have discovered the secrete to keeping a tank clean.

Exactly the same as a sponge filter, a hang on filter, or a canister filter. The debre is ''DRAWN'' towards the collecting unit.

Your system -'' flows '' the debre towards the pick-up tube, which then flows into the mechanical filter foams. right.

By the way, Ron; have you installed the ''turbo-stones '' in the pick-up tubes, yet. ?

Try it , you will be very impressed !!! You will not need the other syphon tube.

The pump switch - use a switch with a on/off ''LIGHT'' indicator. A quick glance tells you where the switch is and if it is on/off. Just a tip.

Same for the heaters. Lets you know they are ''ON'' !!!


Smokey

ronrca
05-23-2003, 11:08 AM
ALL RIGHT! The middle shelf tanks are cycled. ;) ;D
And only in 2 weeks! :D

Yesterday morning I dumped into around 5ppm ammonia and test ammonia and nitrites last night. O for both. This morning I dumped in around 8ppm and we'll see what happens tonight! Now its time for more discus! ;D I hope Cary has Red Marlboro's left (I only want 6 for now Cary)! ;D ;)

Next, I need to finish connecting the top shelf. It is almost complete. ;D Im very happy! ;D

Smokey
05-24-2003, 02:15 AM
Me tooo !!!!
good luck Ron.

Smokey
05-24-2003, 02:59 AM
Super Charge the water lift exit . VERY simple... just instal a large air stone into the clear plastic tube. turn on the air ... and the water exit flow just about triples.
Plus it really sucks up the debre. help full when I am cleaning the glass.

Smokey
05-24-2003, 03:03 AM
Hi H Tran ; I have tried to send it three times ... it will not go through, sorry.

Send me a e-mail ok.

Smokey
05-24-2003, 03:06 AM
Ron; could you please e-mail me the address of the outfit in B.C. you got your supreme pumps from.

thanks

Smokey

ronrca
05-26-2003, 10:18 AM
sales@jlaquatics.com

Update
On Saturday I worked on my fishcloset. I ran a hotwater line into the room. I only had cold water before and filling a 50G with cold water just took too much power to heat up to 86F. Now I can do water changes every 2 hours instead of 6 hours. Hope to have pics soon!

Smokey
05-26-2003, 12:23 PM
Morning Ron;
The weekend down here was wet - Rain - incrediable thunder storms, then HOT. Our first warm day of the year!!! Must be - the dandylions are out . Got to find the lawnmover. lol

Your sumps - are they made of a soft rubbery material ? - or are they more a brittle material ??
I lucked out and got the ones that are rubbery - Truely Brand. Rubbermaid has a similar product.

Well, for the sump drain - I can only suggest letting gravity do the job. IF POSSIBLE ! Other wise - instal a 3-way valve on the output side of the pumps.
A drain line down to the laurndry room - waste water drain pipe ???.
Plumb in a dedicated drain line - runing to the extieror of the house ??? This may incorperate drilling holes in the floor and exterior wall. ???
Where there is a will - there is a way ...

Personally , I have a dedicated submergable pump for this task. This way I can throw the pump into a tank if necessary.

Smokey

Smokey
05-26-2003, 04:00 PM
Ron; sounds great. NOW for the record -----
I would like some information: Regarding the time it take your system to reduce a specified amount of ammonia [ 1 PPM or say 1 millimeter ] to ZERO. And the time it takes for the NO2's [ numbers - PPM produced by the ammonia] to be reduced to ZERO.
And the amount of NO3's produced.

Then do water changes to determine what volume of water necessary to reduce the NO3's to ZERO.

This information will give you the NUMBERS necessary to determine:

1 - the amount of food - which will produce [ numbers] of ammonia - PPM.
2 - the time it takes - from feeding the fish - to produce the ammonia - AND HOW MUCH NH3's are produced. For a given amount of FOOD.
3 - the time it takes to reduce the NH3's to '' ZERO ''.
4 - the time it takes to produce the NO2's - and how much PPM.
5 - the time it takes to reduce the NO2 's to ''ZERO'' .
6 - the amount of NITRATES produced !
AND MOST IMPORTANT
7 - How much water volume necessary to reduce the NITRATES TO ''ZERO''.

THE CONSTANT - the system numbers must be all '' ZERO '' to start with. The result of doing water changes.

Think it as a investment in KNOWLEDGE!

ex: my 325 liter system, with 15 discus; can reduce 5 grams of '' BEEFHEART DIET'' to 2 PPM '' NITRATES '' in 95 minutes ! After 320 minutes the NO3's have increased to 3 PPM.

TIME FOR A WATER CHANGE.

Other factor - such as normal waste produced by the discus are not taken into consideration.

Smokey

ronrca
06-20-2003, 05:07 PM
Update:
The rack system is working great! Just a few pics. I have not vacuumed yet and there is no need to. I just turn the down pipes into the tanks and sweep all the feces to the back where it gets sucked up. Boy is it nice. ;)

ronrca
06-20-2003, 05:10 PM
These guys are not doing too bad! Colors are coming along quite nice! These are actually my first juvs that I attempted to grow out. Alas, in the beginning, I wasnt setup for the massive water changes and feeding but there are doing good despite all the mishaps. What an incredible experience.

ronrca
06-20-2003, 05:12 PM
Modification to the filter!

ronrca
06-20-2003, 05:13 PM
Connecting the top rack! Im using Laguna Pond hose instead of rigid. It works great! I'll get some pics of how Im connecting rigid to hose later.

ronrca
06-20-2003, 05:13 PM
Last one!

24 hours after water change, 0.5 nitrates (barely shows pink, mostly likely due to the treatment of the chloramines)!

H Tran
07-15-2003, 12:56 AM
Ronca,

How is your system running? Any new modification? The clear tubes that you use inside the tank (Water in and water out), where did you get them from? What size would you suggest?

I am planning to set up my 180 gal tank, and would like to apply the over flow technique (From Smokey) that you are using. If you don't mind, please post a few CLOSE UP pictures of your overflow system.

Thanks,

H Tran

H Tran
07-15-2003, 06:08 PM
Ronca,

Are you there? ;D

H Tran

Smokey
07-15-2003, 06:35 PM
Hoach - the clear plastic tubes - they are fluroscent tube protecters. They come in 4 foot and 8 foot lengths - most good hardware stores. And very inexpensive! 100% non - toxic.

I have been using these tubes for about 5 years, excellant product.

Smokey

H Tran
07-15-2003, 08:05 PM
Thanks Smokey!!!

Inexpensive, non-toxic, functional and also look good, what else can I ask for? ;D You sure are innovative!

H Tran

ronrca
07-16-2003, 10:25 AM
Sorry H Tran! Ive been quite busy! I have more pics in my yahoo folder I think.

http://photos.yahoo.com/ronr_ca

Have a look and see. Let me know if you need more pics but you will have not wait until next week as I am gone for the weekend. ;)

flukes
07-02-2004, 10:58 AM
Looks great, just about too setup exactly the same thing. Been keeping discus for a while and now i want to get into breeding alot more and a system like this seems like the way too go.

Smokey, just wondering if you could email me some drafts or other info to - flukes@optusnet.com.au

Thanks guys..
Scott

flukes
07-05-2004, 11:16 AM
Smokey, or Roncra any plans please!! want to see the whole operation on paper.
Thank guys i know its a bit of a pain.

Cheers
scott

Smokey
07-21-2004, 06:41 AM
Scott = pou have mail.

flukes
07-21-2004, 11:14 AM
checked my feces couldnt find anything that resembled mail :-\ :P
replied.

Smokey
07-22-2004, 05:53 AM
Got your pou ;D ;D

Ax
09-24-2004, 05:24 PM
Hi Ron, can you or Smokey send me plans (it's little bit easer for me when I see a diagram) Thanks. email is atom303@gmail.com

ronrca
09-24-2004, 06:56 PM
Hi Ax! I'll see what I can do for you! ;) Give me a couple of days to try to get it organized!

Ax
09-24-2004, 07:59 PM
Thank you. And I just like to say :o your set up is exceptional. (Fish even better)

ronrca
09-29-2004, 10:34 AM
;) Thanks for the compliments!

I just send you an e-mail with a pdf of the material cut list. I hope it helps. ;)

Ax
09-29-2004, 11:26 AM
Thank you. It helps a lot. 8) I'll keep you posted.
Ax

etr63
09-29-2004, 01:35 PM
Hi Ron

Thanks for the cut list it will be a big help. Now if I can just find some time.

Earl

sanghan47558
09-09-2005, 01:48 AM
how long (hours) and how much money did u spend on that project?

ronrca
09-12-2005, 11:24 AM
Well, if I remember correctly, the cost was basicly the lumber that you see which is 18 2x4's plus the 2-3 styrofoam and piping. The tanks I build myself from glass that I got free. The biggest expensive was the pvc pipes and all the connectors. If I were to estimate the total cost, it would be around $300.

I took me around 12 hours to build not including the tanks. The tanks took another 3-4 hours I believe.

HTH