fertilizer/traces (long)

[bloom]

I started my tank about 7 weeks ago and it's been planted for 1 1/2 weeks. Tank info is:

tank: 56 gal. 30x18x24(h)
Light: 1 Sylvania 20w gro-lux and 1 18w T8 "daylight" bulb that came with the perfecto hood (the bulbs are 24" long and the 2 strip lights fit into the 30" hood 1 behind the other).
Substrate: 15 lbs flourite and the rest fairly fine sand
CO2: Not planning on using a CO2 system. Even if one of the DIY systems would be good, I don't think I want to have anything else hanging in the tank.

Plants: 2 anubias congensis; 2 a. nana; 1 a. coffeefolia; 3 java fern; several hygro; one small sword that looks like it's in the process of resurecting itself; 3 bolbitis; 2 pretty good sized strands of hornwort. I may add a couple more nana or coffeefolia.

Water, about 2 days after 20% wc:
NO3--a little above .5, mayber .6-.7 ppm
Amonia and Nitrates--0
GH 6
KH 2
ph about 6.9
Nitrates were about the same right before the wc
Tap water is GH 5 and KH 3

I'm using Seachem Acid buffer with wcs to lower ph. I'll probably end up lowering the ph a little so it looks like 6.8 (the ph test that came with the AP master test kit is a little hard to read for me so far). Info. on the Acid Buffer bottle says it converts KH into available CO2.

Right now, all the plants, except for two, look like they're doing well and growing--new leaves on the congensis, coffefolis, hygro; new growth on 2 of the bolbitis and new little plants starting on one of the java ferns. There's one sword (amazon I think) that I got soon after I set up the tank. It lost all of its original leaves, but had some good roots and is putting out a new leaf now. Some of the congensis leaves have little black tips. For one of the nana, didn't bury the rhizome, but it's rotting. It's throwing off lots of green roots though, so hoping it will come back.

I've had a little thread algae--more to start off with right after I planted the tank than now, but not too bad. Just a few strands now here and there. Seemed to decrease when I cut back from 12 to about 10 hrs of light/day.

Clean up crew: 2 ottos; 5 amano shrimp. I'm planning on adding 1-2 SAE when they come in at my lfs later this week--probably just 1. Also have 3 neons.

I'm going to get 6 small discus in a few weeks. I'm going to grow the discus in the planted tank and plan on doing approx. 20% wcs every other day.

Basically, wanted to get some advice on whether I should be adding fertilizer/traces/flourish excell? (for C02) to the tank. All the advice I've received here already has been very helpful--much thanks. I'm guessing I won't need to add Nitrogen or Phosphate (don't have a phosphate test kit, and not sure how much is in the tap water. Some of the thread alage may have been due to using some old Discus Buffer I had to lower ph at first--has phosphates in it).

Should I start adding potasium (K?), other traces, Flourish Excell?

Many thanks again for the help. :bounce2:

Steve :)

[angel12]

bloom first of all your idea for growing out young discus might cause u some problems with your planted tank .. from what I have read on this board the majority think that a BB tank is the best way to grow out youngesters and then once you have got to a good size maybe adult place them in a planted tank

the main reason behind this is to get good growth and obtain healthy fish u need to feed quite frequantly and this debris tends to get lost in a planted enviroment....

also your PH is fine for your discsus as there are threads already on this board from some top people basicaly saying as long as the ph is Stable then your fish will be fine there is no magical ph id stay away from any type of buffers as u have menitoned some of the buffers contain PO4 phosphate wich might cause u more problems in the long run asnd u are putting more mixes into the broth as they say ... ....

as for adding trace elements you can need to add iron as this is needed to help the plants Grow ... im sure u will get more valuable information from other members of the board but this is just my 2 pence worth Hope everything works out for you have u got any pics of your tank ?

Good Luck :)

[ChloroPhil]

Bloom,

If you're going to be doing WC all the time it would be cost prohibitive to add all that stuff. You may as well let the fish waste and elements in your tap water provide for your plants. If you were to add anything it should be Potassium. With the Nitrogen and Phosphorus from your fish waste Potassium will help your plants take that up.

[bloom]

Thanks for the help Angel and Biotypical. Bio, I know you're a major source of info/help for people on this board.

Do you think my plants are likely to use up the postatium that will be available if I don't supplement? Or maybe the relationship doesn't work that way? Guess I should do more research. :computer:

Thanks for the help.

Steve 8)

[ChloroPhil]

Potassium isn't available in much quantity without supplimentation, it wouldn't be a bad idea to find a suppliment. What is available isn't sufficient to keep your plants uptaking much NO2 or PO4. Your best bet would be to find a local source of Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4) as it has the highest concentration of Potassium of the commonly added suppliments.

[angel12]

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm
if u take a look at the above link you will find out how to dose your tank with extra KNO3 Pottasium nitrate this will add extra NO3 to your tank giving your plants the extra nitrate to use

Good Luck .. I am at the moment having problems with Black beard algae and this is due I think to the lack of NO3 and the high levels of PO4 (phosphate) in my water supply my NO3 is only 1.5 ppm so im going to raise the NO3 to see if I Can Outcompete the algea and restore the balance back to the tank ...

:)

[Harriett]

Just a couple of comments, put me on the chopping block if you must, gang. This is a little bit long.

Bloom!
I know the common theory and practice is to grow juvies out in a bb tank and then move them (if you must) to a planted show tank. I've only been raising discus (under guru Cary's mentoring) for about 10 months, but here's my schtick: I have a large planted tank. (180g). As soon as I take my young 'uns out of 6-8 weeks of QT, at which point they are around 3" or so, I put them into the big tank.
My oldest fish are probably 10-11 months and are 6" or better at this point and still appear to be growing. I don't understand why growing discus in a large tank full of live plants which are a wonder biofilter for the tank is considered to be a risk or substandard method by so many. My fish have been 100% healthy and seem to be happy in the big tank (knock on wood). I feed ALL food from a cone feeder with the bottom holes somewhat enlarged. That means frozen, live CBW, flakes, pellet--the works. Discus hang by the feeder to beg when they are hungry. When I feed them, the heirarchy rules--big guys scarf from the feeder directly and younger fish hang in the mid to lower tank area beneath the feeder and scarf what the pigs above don't get. Any food that does fall hits directly below the feeder on a gravel area I keep free of plants, where the scavengers lie in wait (cories and SAEs). The tank stays clean. I have a large wet/dry filter and a HOT Magnum hanging on the back 24-7 to polish. W/D filters are rinsed clean every 2 days or so and I do one water change a week of about 70% with a python and water conditioner. I vacuum the substrate thoroughly during the water change. The water leaving the tank goes out the window into my garden. The tank is CO2 injected and set for a 6.8 to 7 pH. My water has a KH of 9.
I say: May the discus gods not strike me stupid but it can be done! I'm having great fun!
Best regards,
Harriett

[Harriett]

Bloom!
One other thing: I find in my tank that the nitrates and phosphorous are pretty well covered by the discus, but I DO need to add traces (flouish), iron, and definitely potassium to keep the plants healthy. Email me if you want to talk fertilizers!
Harriett

[bloom]

Thanks again for the help biotypical. Anyone here from south Florida know of a good place to buy k2S04 down here?

I like raising young discus in a planted tank also Harriet. Last time I had discus was 6 or 7 years ago. They did well in my planted tank (knock on wood here also, don't want to jinx myself), and I hope the ones I'm about to buy do well also. I guess the diferent reasons or arguemts in favor of BB or planted tanks are pretty clear. Thanks Harriet for the info about your tank.

Steve

[ChloroPhil]

Bloom,

www.ecogrow.com
www.litemanu.com

They're both reputable sources of aquarium grade fertilizers. I'd get my traces and K2SO4 from them, my KNO3 from Home Depot (stump remover), and PO4 from a Fleet Enema (1.80 at Eckerd). You might also try calling Florida Aquatic Nurseries and seeing if someone there could let you know where they get their fertilizers. Just make sure to let them know you're a hobbiest (who uses their plants) and wants to make sure to get the best for your aquarium.

You could probably find all sorts of neat aquatic plants in the local ditches and ponds if you're in S. Florida. That might be an interesting aquarium to try out. Discus in a Florida ditch biotope. Have you ever seen discus spawn on a beer bottle?

[bloom]

That is really funny! Guess we could start a thread for irreverent type biotopes, but may not be a good idea to go there. Something else that might be kind of interesting though is an above water version of a flooded Amazon biotope. Little dock set up, with boats tied to it, some small homes on stilts, plants looking like tress, with discus swimming around. Might look kind of interesting. (Thanks also for info about where to get fertilizers).

Steve

[lesley]

Hello Bio,

regarding the Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4) supplementation. Down here at the bottom of Australia I am not able to access the sources you guys mention.

If I was to use the K2S04 ( granular) that I get for my garden, providing it was free of additives would it be safe to use? Or should I be looking for liquid fertilister. Are there any additives or ingredients that would normally be in the liquid fertilisers that I should be avoiding, i.e. when I fertilise my orchids I steer clear of fertilisters with urea in them. What dosages should I be using?

Thanks.