Filtration system for a Planted Aquarium

[ChloroPhil]

Here we are folks, my new filter system. It's made of a 20gallon (Long) with a few sheets of glass, a pump, and a bunch of schedule 21 "lightwall" PVC. Each main artery of pipe has at least one ball valve to close off that section for maintenance, change flow rates, or in case of an emergency.

Everything is hard piped and glued together with the exception of a couple threaded connections for eventual dismantling. I got tired of using flexible tubing and wanted the clean looking and more compact hard pipe. Teflon gas tape was used to seal all threaded connections, with the exception of the sump bulkheads which were siliconed.

I've got the overflow box draining into the sump using 1" pipe and it connects to the sump with a 90* elbow and a 1 1/4" bulkhead. The bulkhead was drilled in the bottom right corner of the back wall to keep surface agitation to a minimum. To accomplish this I used two 18" high pieces of 1/4" glass, one siliconed to the bottom with a 2" gap at the top; and the other siliconed at the top with a 2" gap at the bottom. Not only does this configuration create a great filteration section it also makes a handy reservoir to keep the heater in without having to worry about the water level dropping and overheating the heater.

In between the two glass baffles is about 20lbs of landscaping pumice to provide the filtration. The pumice is sitting on a square of plastic eggcrate used to diffuse flourescent lighting on top of three PVC supports. A couple inches outside of the filter box is a 3" high glass baffle used to keep the water level higher than the bottom layer of pumice, again to reduce agitation and out gassing. The water then passes through the main reservoir and is pulled through the pump.

The whole thing was then covered with a solid glass lid with duct tape along the seams to seal it and voila...it's done.

[ChloroPhil]

The main pump is a Pondmaster 700, which turns out to be massive overkill. I wanted to get a pump which would provide sufficient flow when all the extra head pressure from the plumbing taken into account.

LOL@me...I've had to use a valve to crank the output down on that thing by at least half in order to keep from having excessive current in the aquarium. I guess it could be a lot worse...I could have insufficient flow. :)

With the exception of the CO2 reactor all the outflow plumbing was done with 1/2" PVC.

Although you can't see it in this picture there is a 1/2" ball valve in-line between the sump and pump. From there the water flows through the pump and into the main line toward the tank. The 3 way connects the main line to the input for the CO2 reactor. The ball valve seen at the top is used to restrict flow and redirect some of it through the CO2 reactor. This way I have absolute control over flow inside the reactor and can adjust to whatever amount of CO2 needs to be added rather than having to work around a fixed rate powerhead.

The reactor was made of 1 1/2" PVC filled with bio-balls from an old filter to churn the CO2 up. The main water line and CO2 gas line connect at the top with a 3 way riser. The water flow from top to bottom, constantly pushing the CO2 bubbles (which want to rise) against the bio-balls creating an optimum environment for gas dissolution.

The CO2 canister connects to a bubble counter on the side of the sump and through that to the a 1/4" brass airline fitting in the reactor itself. The inside of the airline fitting was sprayed with rustoleum to keep the water from corroding the metal and poisioning the system.

The main line and CO2 enriched line connect again at another 3 way on the far side of the ball valve for output into the tank.

I chose to plumb the main pump externally this time for a couple reasons:
1. It looks darn cool.
2. It's creates a less cluttered sump and reduces unwanted water heating
3. It's a lot easier to plumb the CO2 reactor this way
4. I wanted to. :)

[ChloroPhil]

Last, but not least, the output.

After seeing a picture of one of Amano's filtration systems I decided I wanted to give something like that a try. I made this out of two 3 way connectors and a couple 90* elbows. One output was left pushing water straight out to keep good flow in the upper levels while the second (outer) was put at an angle to circulate water through the lower sections. It was all painted black with rustoleum and has worked like a charm so far.

[ChloroPhil]

Here's the final result after a week. I have to move a couple things back into place after accidentally knocking them around during a cleaning as well as finding a better place for some of those anubias. The tank's been patterned after the mossy old growth forests of the Pacific Northwest where I grew up and is intended to house a sextet of wilds, most likely Tefe Greens.

Plant selection:
Anubias "coffeefolia"
Cryptocoryne crispulata v. balansae
Cryptocoryne wendtii "red"
Echinodorus tenellus
Vesicularia dubyana
Ludwidia arculata (supposedly; it looks more like repens at this point)
3 pots of Lobelia cardinalis that I'm trying to find a good place for
numerous types of algae which I have yet to smack down

Current inhabitants/algae crew:

5 SAE
15 Ottocinclus affinis
19 Amano Shrimp
3 Farlowella spp suckermouth cats

[henryD]

I was going to make a central filter system out of a 55 gallon that is similar in design.

Is there benefits to using pumice instead of bioballs?

Also where did you pick up your pumice?

[ChloroPhil]

HenryD,

The major benefit of using pumice instead of bioballs is price. They both have incredible surface area, but I was able to get four times the amount of pumice per dollar. I got mine in a 50lb bag at Lowe's. Just about any store with a garden center should have it though.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Bio!
question for you too!

Like henry I am thinking of making my own ...actually a couple of different size ones.
I'm thinking of making one for 55 gallon tank I have in my bedroom.It would be a 20 gal filter tank. The tank has wilds in it ...no plants at this point..but may have planted Driftwood. My concern is pH. Do you know how if at all the pumice affects your pH?
Thanks,
-al

[ronrca]

Pumice

http://www.fi.edu/fellows/fellow1/oct98/expert/pumice.htm

So because pumice is a mixture of glass instead of minerals, it should not change the ph. Dunno!

[ChloroPhil]

Pumice won't affect your pH at all, it's great stuff.

[bobgoestheweasel]

Try breaking the pumice into as small pieces as possible. This increases surface area many time over. Just make sure it won't clog. Try terracotta and save some more money. Cracked pots, pulverized bathroom tiles and WCs (ceramic, ooooo momma), break up your kids' old plastic toys. Keep your acceptance speech ready.

[stygian7]

Biotypical,
Just wondering about trickle filters and CO2. I see that you are running CO2 with your filter. I read somewhere that the trickle filters have so much air contact that the CO2 is dissapated awfully fast. Do you have any problem with this; what is your CO2 consumption?
-Stygian

P.S. Great looking tank.

[Harriett]

Stygian, I saw your question for Biotypical about CO2 so while you are waiting for his reply, I thought I would offer feedback on my system. I also have a trickle (wet/dry) filter on my 180g planted tank and inject CO2. My CO2 reactor hangs on the side of the sump and the CO2 enriched water tube sits at the mouth of the bulkhead. The CO2 water, along with the rest of the now cleaned filter water then goes straight back to the tank and comes out a spray bar located at the back bottom of the tank. By the time the water reaches the surface of the tank the CO2 is pretty well diffused. I use a 20 lb. CO2 tank. My water out of the tap is 8.0 and is adjusted with CO2 to 6.8. I refill the tank 3 x a year.
Best regards,
Harriett

[ChloroPhil]

Stygian,

If well covered/sealed and care is taken to minimize agitation inside the filter surprisingly little CO2 is offgassed. The most gas loss occurs in the Overflow and that too can be minimized by adding a PVC elbow that sucks water from below the waters surface. You will need to drill a small hole in the top of the elbow to allow air to be sucked into it or you'll end up with cavitations and a very noisy overflow.

If you take a look at my filter you can see a separate CO2 reactor which saturates the water with gas, leaving no free bubbles. That's the first step to maintaining a CO2 efficient system.

The second is the glass plate that covers my entire filter. I know I'm losing gas somewhere, but by covering the entire filter it acts as a crude reactor itself. With the additional air being sucked down your downdraft pipe you don't need to worry about your filter going anaerobic.

The third, mechanism I used was to create a sort of offgassing pipe that allows the air sucked into my downdraft to be released above the water level in my sump, reducing agitation as much as possible. I'm not sure if it's as effective as I had hoped and am going to be doing some experiments with it.

[ronrca]

Another thought! Isnt C02 also dependant on the area of surface agitation?

Im just relating it to my 90G when I had a biowheel running with C02. There was just a small surface agitation but my C02 was running at 5+ bps! A 10lb bottle lasted around 1-2months! I turned off the biowheel and I had to adjust the bubble count to around 1-2 bps to achieve the same ph!

;)

[ChloroPhil]

It's more dependant on the location of agitation rather than the area. For example, in my tanks I get agitation in my overflow and since all the water has to pass through that bottleneck there is a higher percentage of offgassing than if I were agitating a 25% area of my surface. That's why high agitation spraybars, such as those used for a Biowheel, can be such a detriment.

Even so, there have been quite a few (well done) hobbyist experiments done that have shown that W/D filters cause much less CO2 loss than most people think.

[barron]

Hi ODwyerPW

Great set-up

I lived up in or down, in Rockland county. I now all to well about the basement. I miss the place, may move back up north by Cooperstown. Got a southerner for a wife.

Barron 8)

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Do you mean Cooperstown?

I absolutely love it there. If my wife ever gave up on the idea of heading South, I would move to Cooperstown or the Fingerlakes.

Ever go to the Glimmerglass Opera House?

I digress..this is a filter thread..my apologies..

The large sump of this Wet/Dry accomodates a good size heater to make up for temp losses that one can expect in a cold NorthEastern basement. It's a good distance before the water finds it way back into the warmth of the main tanks.

[barron]

Hi ODwyerPW

I will keep it short.

That is a yes on Cooperstown.

I also fished the Beaverkill great trout. I like Liberty and Livingston Manor area, off Rt-17. All pretty close by.

Your set looks like it is going to be great. I like the plumbing
in the front.

Barron :)

[Debbie]

Great system. I wish I had seen that before I redid the sump for my reef tank, it would have saved some arguement with the husband (engineer). I ended up using rubbermaid tubs, part of the old sump (the tower that held the bioballs), and a spray bar for the output.

[Big Boy]

I have a 70 gallon planted discus tank, with six, 8-10 month old, discus, 6 cories, 9 green fire tetras, and 4 Mystery snails.

I have two questions; First: I use two Aqua Clear 300s, with a sponge, biological media, and peat (occasionally carbon). I was wondering if it would be more affective to use a canister type filter, such as a RENA FILSTAR XP3 CANISTER FILTER or similar product? I would like to know if the canister would be a higher quality filter, and/or if it would be more Appropriate for the use with a planted discus tank (more flexible with inlet/ outlet tube postion, etc).

Second: what is the general Consensus of this forum with the use of activated carbon in a discus tank?

[ronrca]

Different types of filters have their advantages and disadvantages. You will find that opinions vary when it comes to types of filters. There are a few things to keep in mind though. One being surface agitiation which will disapate C02. Second, ease of maintanance.

AquaClears are very popular filters for a couple of reasons. They are easy to maintain and clean. They also do not require priming when the power goes off or the water level drops. However, they may cause surface movement therefore if you are using C02, you may need another alternative.

Canister filters IME are more difficult to maintain requiring you to disconnect them (despite the quick disconnect methods used), open them up, remove the media, rinse, etc, etc. While canister filters do have a large media capacity, in a planted tank you may not need it. Depending on the plant density of your tank, the only thing the filter really need to do is filter crap out of the water rather than function as a bio filter. The advantage of canisters is that the output is quite flexible allowing you to place it vertical/horizontal thus being able to minimize surface movement.

Carbon! I do not use carbon at all unless in my Qt tanks when medicating. ;)

[Big Boy]

:)I appreciate the input concerning the differences between Canister and back filters. I have been concerned not only about the surface of the water being disturbed and CO2 lost with my back filter, but also the lack of water movement at the bottom of the tank.

Back to the activated carbon issue; I only use it periodically. Maybe once ever couple of weeks for about a 12 hour period. I have been told that this will reduce toxins such as lead and other metals, but I do not leave it in as filter median. But I had heard from various forums that the use of activated carbon was correlated to hole in the head disease, and that was what I was wanting a discussion about. Any thoughts? :-\

[ronrca]

But I had heard from various forums that the use of activated carbon was correlated to hole in the head disease, and that was what I was wanting a discussion about. It has not been scientificly proven that carbon is the cause or part cause of HITH! It is a theory and I can not say it is so or it isnt! ;)

About carbon removing certain metals! Well, I would recommend getting a water report from your area and checking it for the metal levels of concern. It would give you a better indication if you actually need to use carbon or not. If you have that much lead or other toxins in your water to be concerned with, you better not be drinking it either! ;D

[ChloroPhil]

Another good thing about plants....they do a bang up job of removing heavy metals from the water. :)

[Big Boy]

Thank you Ronca and Phil. The people on this forum are the best. ;D

[Don_Lee]

Wow-what a great setup! :o
Don

[Augusto]

I am using an dry-wet on my 95 gallon planted tank and it´s going well!

http://www.aquariomania.com.br/augusto/dry-wet360l/DSC02543.JPG

[Luca]

Hi guys,

few questions:

Firstly, consistency of pH is important but CO2 lowers ph due to carbonic acid. I have a DIY system and it lowers my tank's pH to 6.8. The problem is my tap water is 7.8. How do you guys overcome this? (especially when discus require such frequent water changes).

Secondly, if you go for a CO2 tank, how do you hook up airline tubing to it? Do they all have an outflow small enough to allow that or do you have to rig up some DIY system?

Thirdly, i have heard plants almost instantaneously absorb ammonia, is this why you don't really need a biological filter on planted tanks?

Thanks for any feedback

[ChloroPhil]

Luca,

"Firstly, consistency of pH is important but CO2 lowers ph due to carbonic acid. I have a DIY system and it lowers my tank's pH to 6.8. The problem is my tap water is 7.8. How do you guys overcome this? (especially when discus require such frequent water changes)."

You can either a: age your water or b: let the pH settle out on its own. I usually opt for b and the fish don't seem to mind terribly much.

"Secondly, if you go for a CO2 tank, how do you hook up airline tubing to it? Do they all have an outflow small enough to allow that or do you have to rig up some DIY system?"

Check the pictures in the very first part of the thread, that shows my CO2 system. Home Depot sells barbed male adaptors for airlines that you can use to hook your line up to PVC.

"Thirdly, i have heard plants almost instantaneously absorb ammonia, is this why you don't really need a biological filter on planted tanks?"

Technically, yes. However your plants are going to miss some of the Ammonia in the water from lack of contact and a good filter helps make up for that.

I hope that's answered your questions,
Phil

[Luca]

Thanks Phil, that did help.

About the pH and CO2; aging water involves off-gassing the CO2 which would raise the pH correct? Then when you diffuse your CO2 into that water, it would lower it. Thus you have the same, if not worse, problem of the CO2 lowering the pH of tap or aged water.

How often do you do water changes on your planted tank and of what quantity?

[ChloroPhil]

Luca,

Yes, aging the water will off-gas the CO2 and Chlorine, raising the pH. Adding CO2 will lower the pH, however, that's not such a bad thing and with proper buffering can be a very effective and cheap way of maintaining a low pH.

I usually do 50% WC every three days in my tank.

Best,
Phil

[NanDiscus]

Just to add a little more to the D.I.Y. systems, here's a few pics of my filter for my 55 gal planted tank. It was made out of an old 25 gal tank. I used thick and high-quality Spanish wall-tiles to separate the chambers. They have a quite decent heat-retention capacity and with the heater in the filter tank it's more economical. A 200W Ebo-Jager turned on to 3 keeps the tank at 30C during the day and 28C at night. The rest you can figure out, no rocket science involved.

[NanDiscus]

Coming in from the tank. Note the number of air bubbles. Not bad for filter aeration. :)

[NanDiscus]

Well, you don't see too many of them, but there are plenty anyway...
This picture shows the "rainmaker" which has been improved by a plexi sheet with lots of holes in it to spread the water evenly over the sponge's surface.

[NanDiscus]

And the two pumps. The smaller pump, sitting on top of the ceramic rings drives the "rainmaker".
The bigger one pumps the water back up into the tank.
With the water level set a bit higher in the filter, I now have a bag of peat doing its business above the pumps and the sponge.

[Smokey]

Excellant thinking; good design.
Nice to see someone doing their own building.

[vrldiscus]

this question is for Phil Edwards ...about his sump filter.. but if anyone else can help me with it then feel free..

where and what are you using for mechanical filtration in your system?

i was wondering this b/c im just getting ready to set up my 90g as a planted discus setup......and it already has the overflow built it. your system looks good ...it just i was wondering how to ensure mechanical filtering without off-gassing more co2 than you already are .


thanks in advance for the help

[lhforbes12]

Hi vrldiscus,
I have a 125 gallon with 2 built-in over-flows too, I really don't get that much CO2 off gassing because of them. A more important thing to do is to make sure your drain lines enter under the water surface of your sump, this is where the majority of CO2 loss takes place IME, and also make sure your returns are under the aquarium's water surface too, but also make sure that you have some water surface movement (surface should move but not ripple) Using only a Sweetwater diffuser in front of my pump intake I get 20-25 ppm CO2 without using an excess amount CO2 from my cylinder, a 10# tank lasts me about 4 months. But I use a solenoid to shut off the CO2 when the lights are out.

hth,
Larry

[cdan]

hi,
I cant see any pics here anyone else

[Canadian_velvet]

I don't have any pics either.

[ChloroPhil]

Could we get this thread deleted please? I'll have an updated one in a couple months when the new tank's set up.

Cheers,
Phil

[Steven Turitz]

Hi Phil
I am new to "Discus" and "SimplyDiscus".
I am planning a return back into the aquarium hobby after being
tank less for almost 2 decades.
I am in the process of designing a 200 gallon Perfecto Predrilled
"Discus Only" planted show tank and I am researching filtration.
I think I have eliminated canister filters as they limit my options
(i.e. heaters, uv, nitrate filter in the sump) and the possibility of
the bacteria colony becoming anaerobic due to oxygen deprivation
in the case of a power failure which is common in this area.
What are your thoughts?
I have been looking at the Lifereef LF2 Side by Side Wet/Dry trickle
filter, but as I continue my research it appears that a good deal of
opinion and consensus is that the biological filter should be completely
submerged and under water. In the Lifereef the tower sits above what appears to be a very small section that could house completely submerged
biological filter material (Matala or pumice).
What are your thoughts?
I came upon a "thread" about Sump Media from colinlp on SimplyDiscus and a sump that he had bought that had a thumbnail picture attached.
It looked functional.
I had previously read a thread by Chad Hughes who was designing a "Discus Room" in his garage. It was a fascinating thread of technology and efficiency,
with lots of good information.
A light went off in my head!
I then found your thread "Filtration System for a Planted Aquarium".
Another light went off in my head!
Why not build the "Perfect Filtration System" like the experienced and knowlegeable "Discus" lovers like yourself have designed and built.
Why reinvent the wheel. Utilize the experience of seasoned, knowledgeable pros like yourself.
As a newly addicted "Discus Lover" I find myself envious of all the knowledge and experience that all you experienced "Discus Keepers" have, and thanks to forums like "SimplyDiscus" we have the opportunity to learn from all the seasoned "Discus Pros" like yourself.
Can you please post pictures and design plans of your filtration system and explain for the newly addicted "Discus Lovers" of the world like myself what is accomplised in each section/compartment.
Thanks
Steve

[yashaswibs]

" Perfect filtration system for Planted discus tank"--- that is a very lofty goal.

Let me give you my experience-
I have had a planted discus tank for about 1 year now. I will definately recommend starting with a CO2 set up with a PH probe to help modulate the amount of co2. My first CO2 disaster cost me 6 discus fish including a mating pair.

For filtration I started with Fluval FX5 and it was quite good- it still is and is my favourite cannister. I added Eheim pro 3 with heater- what a waste of money- does not move around enough water and did not work well with the AM1000 Co2 reactor. In planted tank water circulation is everything. Thankfully this was in addition to Fluval so it was good enough.

The thing that really really helped me was an automatic water changer. I had been doing 50%-70% change every week but now due to continuous water running in I am able to get my fishes to show off beautifully without any effort from my side.

So the best filtration system is continuous flowing water. If that cannot be achieved then I would go with a sump and overflow design. The problem being they are noisy.

[Steven Turitz]

" Perfect filtration system for Planted discus tank"--- that is a very lofty goal.

Let me give you my experience-
I have had a planted discus tank for about 1 year now. I will definately recommend starting with a CO2 set up with a PH probe to help modulate the amount of co2. My first CO2 disaster cost me 6 discus fish including a mating pair.

For filtration I started with Fluval FX5 and it was quite good- it still is and is my favourite cannister. I added Eheim pro 3 with heater- what a waste of money- does not move around enough water and did not work well with the AM1000 Co2 reactor. In planted tank water circulation is everything. Thankfully this was in addition to Fluval so it was good enough.

The thing that really really helped me was an automatic water changer. I had been doing 50%-70% change every week but now due to continuous water running in I am able to get my fishes to show off beautifully without any effort from my side.

So the best filtration system is continuous flowing water. If that cannot be achieved then I would go with a sump and overflow design. The problem being they are noisy.

Hi yashaswibs
Thank you for "threading" and responding .
I'm learning and absorbing all the information that I can.
What do you mean that your "first CO2 disaster cost me 6 discus fish including a mating pair"? Can you please elaborate.
You mention "automatic water changer". How do you have this designed to accomplish manual water changes being eliminated for continuous water running? I was under the impression that water changes need to be "drain and refill from aged & conditioned" holding tank, somewhat of a manual process.
If you went with a "sump" have you ever had any experience with the Lifereef LF2 Side by Side? If not, which manufacturer would you recommend?
Thanks
Steve

[yashaswibs]

I am suprised you asked about Lifereef overflow systems and trickle filter. I have a lifereef overflow and it works like a charm. The customer service was excellent, answered all my questions and I am convinced that this is the only system that would work for me.

My co2 disaster- I fitted a AM1000 co2 reactor which initially managed to get extremely good co2 dissolution leading to killing off my fishes (CO2 poisoning).

If you have well water like I do or if you have chlorine water then you can trickle in water at a slow rate and allow the overflow to take the water out continuously. Basically you will have slow flowing water all the time. No more manual labour. I am not sure I buy this aged and conditioned business especially if you are dripping the water in at a slow rate. If on the other hand you change about 90% water every week then you probably will have gas exchange which has not yet equilibrated and you will end up with stressed fishes. Under slow trickle circumstances this is not the case.

The only place where I think this flow will not work is if you have Chloramine in your water. This does not dissipate, nor does it break down easily allowing it to accumulate. You would need a chloramine trapping device---likely chemical pre-filtration, before water is let in.

If none of those methods works for you then you are basically stuck with a canister filter. Likely a large Eheim like 2260 or such.

Keep the questions coming.

You are learning and absorbing all the information--- that is a great thing to do. The problem is in information. Some are anecdotal, some that fluke some by personal experience but there are only few randomized controlled studies which prove or disprove a theory. So although you are asking the right questions you may not find all the right answers. You will need to have some basic physiology and common sense to extrapolate an answer.

[aix1]

All I can say is that Eheim 2260 has been working really well for many-many years. And 200gallon seems to be just the right size for it. I took it out from my 120gallon since I could not get the water moving slow enough... It is very powerful... But I do like the volume of the filter which allows to run it for a long time without cleaning it. As long as you have a sponge on intake tube which you clean on regular bases. Using this I am able to clean 2260 maybe once a year or every second year and I have it full of Eheim substrat . Main thing to make this work you really need to avoid dirt getting into the filter. I am using Eheim internal filter sponge around intake tube for this.

[West1]

Great info here

[mobot]

I'm curious, I'm running a similar CO2 setup (diffuser inline that goes directly into the tank from sump) but my spray bar is at the top of the tank. Am I losing all my CO2?

[RogueDiscus]

A very old thread, but seems like where my question lies. I'm working toward a planted tank experiment. Probably no fish other than some BN for a while. Minimum 75 gal. What filtration system do folks prefer? How does that affect the substrate, if at all. My discus tanks are all bare bottom with sponge filters. I've run tanks with canisters before, but haven't in a while with my current setup. Is undergravel still done? Sumps? Point me in the right direction.

[Adam S]

Steve, below are a few ramblings about the filters you mentioned. Before that though, are you still planning to do a shallow layer of sand with potted plants, or a full depth substrate? Large planted tanks with deep substrates have some unique "issues" (maybe "characteristics" is a better word) that need to be managed.

Sumps are great if you can spare the $$$. Really improves aesthetics of the tank having the heater and filtration components out of sight, and the ease of mechanical filtration is a huge plus. Not great for shrimp though.

UGF is okay, just don't overdo it on the flow. Also recommend avoid the plate style ones you see in the stores and making your own.

For canisters, consider using layers of large pore foam like 10-20 ppi Poret instead of the traditional floss and ceramic media. I think the later makes for too much maintenance, but flexibility to experiment is part of the canister appeal.

[RogueDiscus]

Thanks Adam. I've got the tank with plants in cups, but I'm considering a planted substrate project. I have some swords with large roots that don't look like they would do well in pots, and some valls that that need rooting. So, thinking about what it would take. We're you recommending DIY UGF or not?

[Filip]

Whatever filtration you use for other tanks will work in a planted tank too Steve . It's really no different than with any other fish tank .

Things to consider though :

-if you plan to.pump Co2 you'll have to avoid filters that do waterfall effect and outgass Co2 such as Hang ons , overflow sumps etc.

-If you use nutrient rich substrate avoid water movement through them such as UGF or RUGF.

-Plants love good water circulation so have that in mind too when choosing filters. You can compensate poor filter circulation with wave makers too .

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hi Steve, I think UGF has almost disappeared, mostly brcause it binds you to using gravel as a substrate while with plants you may want to use some sort of sand or fertile soil. No experience with HOBs. As Adam said sumps offer ease of maintenance, huge volume and great flexibility as to what you can fit into it: wet/dry trickle towers, moving bed, algae scribbers, reactors, heaters etc. Possible downside arw tank has to be drilled (usually), overflow tends not to remove much of the debris that settles on the bottom, if using CO2 it increases the dispersion of it so more goes wasted.
I find canisters pretty effective, as Adam said you can put whatever media you prefer. I usually put some kind of sponge prefilter on the intake in the tank (easy to hide behind a plant), I put sponge and floss in the first canister tray the water goes through and biomedia in the rest. With the prefilter removing most of the bigger particles, and easy to clean during weekly wster changes, I open the filters only every 6 months or more (and still no drop in flow). If you don't like the look of the heater in the tank you can get canisters with built in heaters or in-line ones, although again it is easy to hide a heater behind a plant.
I like canisters that hold a big volume of media and not a huge flow (so the opposite of an FX6!).
Amongst the others I have been running for years 4 Jebao 304 (and will swap for them all my other canister filters). They are big (15.5 liter volume), quiet (after a little run in), cheap to buy and to run (20w) and so far (oldest is now 5 years) have been very reliable. They are a clone of the old Eheim Professionel II, not fancy but do the job without fuss.

[Adam S]

For whatever reason, aquatic plants don't seem to mind getting root bound. Huge swords can be grown in pots as small as 4".

I think sumps are best if you can spare the time and cash, but UGFs are an okay option (you can even use one with a sump). Another downside I forgot to mention is that UGFs needs to be paired with some form of mechanical filtration. The ultimate goal is to keep the substrate free of large solids and particulates (plants can't use these, so they just pollute the substrate) and allow nutrients and O2 to diffuse down to the roots. A UGF with a couple powerheads/wave makers and a canister is an okay option, but not better than a sump with powerheads/wave makers.

[RogueDiscus]

I was thinking about my set-up design ideas and realized I'd prefer to avoid the large sponge filters I have in my other tanks. I might try smaller ones, or I still have all my Fluval 405's so I might give them a try for a while. Thanks.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Heck, if you have a couple of 405s what are you waiting. If you have not used them in a while you may need to test the seals are still good, I would do it outside with a bucket on a table rather than a tank in the living room...At least spares are widely available. If all is well just change or clean the sponges in the side-trays and the media in the baskets, stick one on either end of the fishtank and Bob's your uncle!

[RogueDiscus]

For whatever reason, aquatic plants don't seem to mind getting root bound. Huge swords can be grown in pots as small as 4".

I think sumps are best if you can spare the time and cash, but UGFs are an okay option (you can even use one with a sump). Another downside I forgot to mention is that UGFs needs to be paired with some form of mechanical filtration. The ultimate goal is to keep the substrate free of large solids and particulates (plants can't use these, so they just pollute the substrate) and allow nutrients and O2 to diffuse down to the roots. A UGF with a couple powerheads/wave makers and a canister is an okay option, but not better than a sump with powerheads/wave makers.

Thanks Adam. When you say 4" pots, does that mean depth? Like a "4 in clay pot" with the tapered shape. I wish they made them getting wider toward the bottom. That's sort of my issue with containers for the plants, but maybe it's not an issue if they are deep enough.

So, to keep the substrate free of large solids, do you still siphon, or does a part of the filtration system remove them?

Will nutrients and O2 diffuse down to the roots on their own through what is in the water column? If the large waste was able to be removed?

[Adam S]

Yeah, 4" clay pots are fine. I usually use the bottom ~4" of a juice container (about 4" wide too) but use clay if it has to look nice.

Siphoning disturbs the substrate and is best avoided if possible. Ideally, the tank has enough flow to keep debris suspended for the filter, without kicking up substrate/plants or disturbing the fish. Definitely takes some tuning to balance it all out.

Even with very fine substrates (preferred), nutrients and O2 in the water diffuse readily to the roots. Allowing waste and uneaten food to build up in the substrate is bad even with plants.

[RogueDiscus]

OK, that's all in line with what I was thinking. I want to give more thought to the containers I use. I'm not in to having the pots be feature in the tank if I can avoid it. The plastic party cups in my current BB plant tank were a good choice for that tank.

[Adam S]

Another consideration: you could do a glass planter box like Larry Waybright did in his old 125 gal. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?66500-Design-and-set-up-of-125-gal-for-Nhamunda-Blue

[RogueDiscus]

Heck, if you have a couple of 405s what are you waiting. If you have not used them in a while you may need to test the seals are still good, I would do it outside with a bucket on a table rather than a tank in the living room...At least spares are widely available. If all is well just change or clean the sponges in the side-trays and the media in the baskets, stick one on either end of the fishtank and Bob's your uncle!

Thanks Paul. The next step in this project will probably be a 75 gal, and sounds like the canisters are the way to go. I just really had no experience so I asked. How the filtration might interact with the plants was the other part of the question. Getting good advice! :)

[Paul Sabucchi]

Canisters will do their thing without interfering with the plants (that may on the other hand absorb some ammonia molecules even before the bacteria in the filter). The positive effect of canisters is the water flow around the tank, it will distribute the nutrients, atmospheric (or injected) CO2, O2, etc and can help preventing cyanobacteria and black beard algae getting established. Most plants suitable for low tech tanks absorb most nutrients from the water column, although amazon swords (Echinodorus) are heavy root feeders so if you are using inert substrate (sand or gravel) it would be best to place fertiliser tabs by their roots

[Dokholiday44]

Hi All,

I have had discus in the past. I want to start plants. i have done some research regarding what plants can tolerate 84F with a pH of 6.8 but what is troubling me the most is deciding on a substrate. I think i want to done "zones". Mostly sand with areas of plants. I also have concerns about how to clean the plant substrate with having the necessary 3" depth (concern for anaerobes).

I am going to run a wet/dry aqueon model 3 sump. I have an overflow feeding it. I have 2 built in returns into the glass. the tank is about 110-120 gallons.

Can someone suggest a sand they like?
Can someone suggest a substrate the doesn't raise pH?

Any tips, tricks or resources would be appreciated.


Matt

[apkgo]

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