Beef heart, not a good food for fish.....?

[Karl]

Hi everybody! Long time no post.(If you still remember me.....)

I have learned from an article on African Cichlids that meat from any warm-blooded animal, and especially beef heart, is bad for our fish ...... so how about our Discus?

Actually I have started a thread on it in their forum:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15927&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Karl

[Jason]

I think the problem most of those people had was caused by feeding the beefheart to fish that did'nt have the digestive systems to handle it.

and or, they werent doing the amount of w/c's required when feeding it.

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Karl Wu:
You haven't posted here in a while. Do you have any new discus? Did you see we gave away the CD's you donated in our April contest? Thanks again for the donation.

[Al_M.]

Karl
I think its a crock, I've been feeding beef heart foe over 20 yrs. with very good results. ;) ;) ;)

[Mike_Selley]

Unfortunately I have beef heart mix rotting away in the freezer so to speak because I can't bring myself to feed it to my discus.
I had great growth rates with it and my discus just loved it. Unfortunately I lost several discus from it. Since I went to other foods and started presoaking Tetra bits and flake foods, I haven't had a single bloated fish, much less any to die from it.
I would love to feed mine beef heart again but it just isn't worth taking the risk of losing fish over it for me anyway. JMO :)

[Willie]

I've raised three generations of Bing Seto's Red Cobalts strictly on pure beefheart. No problems yet.

Willie

[Mike_Selley]

Willie,

Is that beef heart only you're talking about or a beef heart mixture?

[jeep]

Mike,

Can you please explain why you feel the beefheart was the cause of you losing fish?

Not arguing, but I feed beefheart mix about 100% to my fish and I've never had a problem until recently and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it...

Thanks,

Brian

[Mike_Selley]

Brian,

It's been a while now, but they seemed to bloat like they were bound up or something and Epson salt would help in some cases, and in some cases it wouldn't. I have often wondered since then if maybe the flake food and tetra bits in the beef heart mix might have had something to do with it, or I have heard some strains are prone to that type of disorder anyway.
I'm not saying beef heart is bad by any means, because my discus grew like crazy on it, but then when you start getting casualties it really makes you wonder. :)

[Mike_Selley]

Brian,

It's been a while now, but they seemed to bloat like they were bound up or something and Epson salt would help in some cases, and in some cases it wouldn't. I have often wondered since then if maybe the flake food and tetra bits in the beef heart mix might have had something to do with it, or I have heard some strains are prone to that type of disorder anyway.
I'm not saying beef heart is bad by any means, because my discus grew like crazy on it, but then when you start getting casualties it really makes you wonder. :)

[jeep]

Thanks Mike, I think my problem is I've been very busy with work recently and rather than feeding several small portions daily, I've been feeding 2 large portions each day.

I have a feeling that was an issue in losing a really nice RD the other day...

[Willie]

Mike: I usually feed 100% beefheart. Recently, I squirt in some baby vitamins in the mix. I have tried frozen broccoli and frozen spinach in the past, but its just more messy.

Willie

[Denny]

Willie

Are you still using the ground turkey?

[Mike_Selley]

Maybe I'll try again with just plain beef heart for one meal a day. I feed them most of the other stuff separately during the day any way. :)

[dasbcard]

hi, i am new to this and also been debating w/ myself whether to feed beef heart. i've heard from several people that beef heart could make the fish sterile due to the growth hormones that were given to the cow. these hormones usually remain in the organs heart included. please let me know your view on this.

[Dennis_Hardenburge]

Mike
I can't think the beefheart caused the bloating, I would suspect the tetra bits you put in it.
I have used a beefheart formula for almost thirty years and have never seen a fish bloated from it.
I primary us 2/3 beefheart and 1/3 shrimp or fish.
I do feed tetra bits and have had a fish or two get bloated from them, I don't soak them first.
But I think the worst food for bloating is CBW, fish will just over eat on them.
Dennis

[Karl]

Carol: It's my pleasure to have my donation. Hope the winners will like the VCD. Just a little typo mistake in the "Donate Section": my name is "Karl" instead of "Carl".... ;)

I don't have new Discus for a long time. But I do have a new 51" dripping tank for some of the old guys since they have grown big. I found that dripping tank is sooooo.... convenient!!! Actually it's a gift to my mother who lives 2 floors above my apartment. She can handle W/C with ease!

Karl

[Karl]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

I also feed my Discus beefheart mix with no problem. Just wondering whether I should give some to my Frontosas!

Karl

[John_Nicholson]

Mike I just wanted to echo the words of Dennis. If your fish were bloating/dying I do not think it was from the beefheart. A beefheart mixure has been basically the only thing I have ever fed any of mine.

-john

[limige]

i agree with all except one.

dennis. i think the only reason your reason over eat on CBW is because you don't feed them enough. starting out i did lots of small feeds but now i just to large feedings and try to keep worms in the tank most of the day. i clean them in the morning and then feed heavily. young ones get fed again before i leave for work in the evening.

of course it is kinda nice to see them beg for CBW but mine didn't want to eat anything else after they had some. so mine get CBW 95% of the time, otherwise tetra bits. i plan to use beefheart in the future but i haven't reached that point yet.

[April]

id go for it once a day. ive lately seen alot of nice big healthy fish who have been fed beefheart mainly. so starting to add once a day now . i quit for a bit just due to the hassle. but lately .
mine is a mix though of bh and fish. like prawns and clams and cod or whatever. half and half.

[jim_shedden]

I switched to beefheart about 4 months ago and so far I have had no problems. I do not go for the new "high tec" recipes but I do add a lot of garlic. I was having a real problem with tape worms but about a month after switching to the beefheart/garlic they have dissappeared.

Jim

[Smokey]

Yes, garlic is a wonder. Cheap, effective and tasty !!
MMM MMM GOOD

Smokey

[jeep]

I started adding more garlic to the beefheart and I went overboard. They would suck in the food and spit out the garlic.

Anyone want about 5lbs of garlic with a little bit of beefheart in it?

[discus_nw]

What do you think, Dennis. Some of us fed blackworms and tubifex back in the late 60's and early 70's, but haven't learned a d*mned thing about them yet. ;)

[BlueTurquoise]

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask a question:

With your beefheart creation methods, do you guys shred the beefheart into tiny peices or all the way until it is a paste?

Can the bloating be related to too large a chunks of beefheart?

I stopped using it for the reason that it is too poluting but I am not sure anymore... I might give it a go again.

Chong

[Willie]

I cut the cleaned beefheart into 1" cubes and drop it into the food processor. First run is 30 seconds. I add my vitamin mix and run it for another 30 seconds. Its extremely fine at this point. The addition of a binder, such as lean turkey or shrimp, will suck up all the liquid and turn this mixture into the consistency of concrete -- so it will be less messy in the tank.

Willie

[Karl]

I use 30% beefheart and 70% shrimp. I cut the beefheart into slices and freeze it. Then I put it in a food processor with it partly thaw. The result is tiny pieces of beefheart instead of a paste. I then add FRESH shrimp which will hold everything. Garlic is grinded into paste so the fish have no chance to spit it out.

BTW, have anybody tried cooked beefheart?

Regards,
Karl

[fishfarm]

Never cook anything, Use it all raw, My beefheart recipe is on this thread below. Works great, does not cloud water and fish love it. Ken

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=4569;sta rt=15

Hi Karl: Long time no see. Don't want to change after 30years with some F7 from the original Wattley turquoises. All fed with BH. pure 100% at the early days. They bred and thrived with BH only. I had a tank of African Cichlid for 25 years with many generations bred and raised in the show tank. All were fed with BH until a flowerhorn killed all of them in a week.

Jimmy.

[Karl]

Hi Jimmy, how are you?
I'll stick to beefheart for my discus, too. Just want to know whether I should give it to my frontosas. So your African Cichlids show tank becomes Flowerhorn show tank then?

Karl

[Willie]

JimmyL:

When you supplement calcium in your beefheart, what's the dosage? Also, what form of calcium are you using, e.g. calcium citrate?

Willie

[Rob R.]

Karl,
I am currently breeding Frontosa and I feed them beefheart everyday (to the parents and growouts). The parents love their beefheart so much that they eat it right from my hand. It is one of the best foods I have found for my fronts, they grow and breed like crazy ;D
I have never had any problem with discus digesting beefheart. I add ground krill to my mix which really helps in digestion. If people are having problems they may want to try that.
Discus NW, I agree with you 100%. I thought blackworms were deemed unnacceptable years ago. I guess each new generation has to learn the hard way ::)

[Rick_May]

I've had major problems with beefheart, well not the BH but what may come along. take a look at the picture I posted on the CBW posthttp://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=9466;sta rt=60 I dont think any one food is almighty or without risk, but the food I fear most is BH.

[Rob R.]

the same arguement can be made for that as I see people make for CBW: It came from a 'bad' source. You have to buy from a good distributer. Right? As for CBW, I've lost many a fish to the nasties that ride along on those things (mainly Hex). I'll take long fins over fatalities any day ;)