Water Aging System

[ronrca]

I thought Id share my 'Water Closet' so that others can get some ideas. The reason I call it the 'Water Closet' is because its in the closet of our spare bedroom. ;)

The first pic:
Overall pic

[ronrca]

Pic #2:
This shows the connection of cold and hot water. When both valves are fully open, the temp is around 86F. ;D

The pipe that I used is called bowpex. I love the stuff. Easy to bend and easy to connect. The compact ballcock works like a charm. I have the 1/2" water line connected directly to the compact ballcock. 1 barrel will fill up around 10-15mins, both barrels take around 20min-25mins.

[ronrca]

Pic #3:
I have a tap water line running on top of the barrels with a valve inline. The water line runs back into the drain (behind the barrel). The python is connected to the water line therefore eliminating the need to run the python thru the whole house into the kitchen. Works great!

[ronrca]

I should of posted this pic first! Too late now! This was the closet before adding the second barrel. You can clearly see the drain now.

[ronrca]

This pic shows the connector I used to tap into the cold water line in the basement. These connectors work incredibly well. No more soldering, just twist and turn. ;)

[ronrca]

Here is the connector I used for the drain!

[ronrca]

The old water aging system! What a pain. I would have to use the python to fill these buckets therefore have to watch the water level. It took at least 1/2 hour to fill both. :( Works but not ideal at all!

[ronrca]

Thats it for now! Any questions or comments, feel free! ;)

[daninthesand]

very nice.

hey where'd you find out about that "compact ballcock"? ;D

[ronrca]

I dunno! I was wandering the building supply went it fell into my hand. ;D ;)

Thanks Dan! It works really, really good. Btw, do you still have a 1/4" line connected to it? Go with the 1/2" line. Barrels fills in no time!

[daninthesand]

;)

I still have the 1/4 line connected. But there's a reason for it. It will help make my "water preheater" work better. And there's no rush to fill anyway since I have 12 hours between water changes.
;D

[ronrca]

I see! Im using hot water to heat the water instead. Before, I actually only used cold water. It took 6 hours of1000W of continuous heaters to get to the temp I wanted. Do that twice a day and your looking at 12000W a day. Waste of power imo. Now, its heated and I can do water changes every 2 hours if needed. ;D

[ronrca]

Anyone willing to share there water aging system with the rest of us? I love more ideas! ;)

[daninthesand]

Are you using your regular hot water heater to run hot water into your holding barrel?

[ronrca]

Yes, for the time being! Eventually I would like to get my own hot water heater but its not worth it yet.

[daninthesand]

Your water heater: is it gas or electric?

[ronrca]

gas

[daninthesand]

Ahh. Its a good thing.... :thumbsup:

[Dave C]

My water aging system is a 6' tall 180g holding tank and a 14" tall 70g holding tank. If I were to do it again I'd simplify the system as follows... I'd just get a holding tank of whatever size I need for my water changes. Stick a good sized Mag water pump in it and run excess air from my Jehmco linear air pump to it for aeration. Plop in as many Jehmco 500w titanium heaters as I need for the size of tank I'm heating. Put a ball valve on the bulkhead fitting that comes out of the side of the holding tank, about 1" off the bottom of the tank. Attach a hose to this ball valve that can reach to the furthest tank. Stick a J tube on the end of this hose so I can just hook it on the tank I'm refilling. Get a water detector http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=10674 and hang it on the tank I'm refilling. Then just move the hose & water detector around your fishroom, from tank to tank. When I'm done put the water detector on the holding tank and refill it.

One of the things that I did in addition to that was a waste of time & cash in my opinion. That is running a line to each tank from the holding tank so I could refill each tank from it's own ball valve controlled line... why bother? A lot of work & cash when I still only refill one tank at a time. The water pump can't fill 10 50g tanks any faster by filling them all at once vs. one at a time. The flow to each tank may be greater by doing it one at a time but my fish don't find it excessive. Not only that it's sure easy to forget when you have 10 tanks refilling at different rates and one tank starts overflowing. And even if your tanks can overflow to the drain it's still a waste of water for no real gain. In general I have found that much of the "automation" that I did in the early part of my introduction to this hobby cost a lot and gained very little. I never turned on taps and left the room, I was always there doing something fish related. And my preference is to have a water detector remind me to turn off the water rather then relying on a float switch to turn it off and keep it off. I say this admitting that I have 2 float switches still in operation but as they fail I remove them and replace with water detectors. I guess I'm saying that in a lot of cases simplicity works just as well as a complicated system and it saves you cash. It's also easier to explain to a spouse or housesitter. Just my opinion.

Dave

[daninthesand]

I agree. The simpler the better.

I have a similar setup to Dave.

Storage barrel.
Bulkhead at bottom.
Ball Valve. (probably don't need this- see below)
Pump ( a big A$$ one!) my pump is inline outside the barrel
Heaters.
Waste air from central pump aerates (mixes) water in barrel. (chlorine removal)
A 1 1/4" hose attached to pump.
1 1/4" J tube at end of hose.
Near end of J tube I have a switch that turns big A$$ pump on or off.

Tank filling procedure.

Turn off water supply to barrel.
Aim J tube into tank to be filled.
Turn pump on. (with power switch for pump attached to hose near J tube)
Laugh to yourself as you watch fish swirl around. ( BIG A$$ PUMP DOES ~ 1 GAL/SECOND)
Turn pump off.
Go to next tank.
Repeat. (x as many tanks as you have)
Hang up hose (at height more than max. water level of barrel-hence no need for ball valve)
Marvel at how quickly the ~ 145 gallons of aged water disappeared!
Turn water supply to storage barrel back on.
Walk away. ( knowing fill pro valve will stop water flow to barrel when full)

While walking toward fridge for another beer, note that you have siphoned and refilled 12 tanks in under 10 minutes.* (I've timed myself ;D)
Smile.
Sit and watch fish.
Fall asleep (Optional)

EEZY SHMEEZY

NOTE: Potential problem: using one hose to refill may cause contamination from tank to tank.

Despite Dave's comments regarding his regrets for doing so and so (too much automation) it is quite something to see. Nice set up Dave. :thumbsup:

*if I REALLY fly. Normally around 20 minutes or so depending on how much water I remove.

[Jason]

nice set-ups guys,

I use themostatic mixing valves to set my temp, so I dont waste warm water by using too much, or waste gas.
The price of natural gas has gone up alot here in the last few years, I'm looking into those new point of use electric water heaters now some are up to 98% efficiancy.

automation sounds good, but it never really gets to the point of being perfect, and I'll bet 100's of people around the world have tried just about everything.

my approach to it now is I dont want a system that does what I'm to lazy to do, or simply cant do because of time restraints.
What I want is a system that helps me do things faster and more efficiantly, so now for me its all about "streamlined" in stead of "automated"

I've been playing around with de-gass coloumns for awile by copying comercial ones, not perfect but they do "age" the water alot faster.

[ronrca]

I agree with you 100% Jason. I want a system to assist me in water changes not really take over and do everything for me. Im just looking for the basics like float switches/timers to drain and fill. What I find annoying sometimes is waiting for the tanks/sumps to fill. I dont have anything to do but sit, watch and wait for the water level to rise to the top. Therefore by using a float switch, I can do something else without having to worry about water overflowing.

Btw, where did you get the thermostatic mixing valve? I looked around and cant find any. I use 2 valves to mix the water. Not the best but it works not too bad.

[Jason]

www.wattscda

my oldest one I've had for 5 years, needs rebuilding, cant live without those things.

[Smokey]

Yes, I would like to share my aging water proceedure. At a flow rate of 10 gallons per hour, the fresh - raw water is feed through a 5 gallon barrel of peat. A 250 w Ebeo heater and two 3/4" x 2" airstones. prep the water. By the time the 45 gallon container is full; the water is ready to use.
No pH drift; No KH drift; No surprises. Just pure great fresh conditioned water. AND fully stable !!!

Smokey

Dec. 22 / 2003 - I should mention - the raw feed water goes through, 2 [ two ] 10 inch carbon block filters before it enters the peat moss conditioning filter. These removes most of the chlorine.

NOTE - for safety sake, i do use a product to remove the remaing chlorine and ammonia.

[Mykiss]

Smokey, can we see please? The setup I have sucks. All I have is a 45 gallon plastic garbage pail with a 250w ebo heater in it. I was planning to get another garbage pail but there is no space. Every time I do a water change I end up using all of the water and have to reach down to the bottom to scoop the remaining water out. I guess I can buy a pump to pump the water out but that would mean a LONG hose from the water room to the tank rooms i.e. 40 feet. The set up I have now sucks and I plan to upgrade to a better one soon. It is driving me nuts! Then I also have to do something about aging the water i.e. add chlorine remover or let it sit over night.
Smokey, what brand of peat do you use? And are you telling me that after 4.5 hours, your once chlorinated water is now dechlorinated and ready to use? Holy cow Batman!

[Smokey]

Mykiss; Do not bother to let the water sit over tonight; hopiing to elimated the chlorine. There is a number of excellant chemicals on the market that do the job in 30 - 60 seconds. Why wait ???

This is the 21'st centuary, brother. the fiftes technology is .. well 50's.

MPS - match the water to your discus needs. Not the other ways around!!

40 feet ... so what is the big deal; the amazon river is much longer than that. Go out, purchase a great pump, a 50 foot - a 100% pure rubber 3/4 inch - garden hose.
You will not regret it. Equipment is the essencitual ingrediant of all successfull discus persons.

I have invested over; well, lets just say, well over $5.00 .

Smokey

Ageing water, the old way - letting sit overnight, is for persons who do not fully understand the beifits of modern chemistry. MPO.

Today, the chemicals used to "sterilize" the city tap water - are more powerful and potient than back in the 1960's.

[Mykiss]

Okay, thanks Smokey. I will try the liquid chlorine remover. Do you find that a particular brand works best or are they all the same?

So all I have to do is add warm tap water in a pail and then add chlorine remover and wait a few minutes then pour into the tank? Well, it does save time I guess. thanks
PT

[ronrca]

Ageing water is for person who do not fully understand the beifits of modern chemistry Smokey, Smokey! Thats not a very nice thing to say! There are many reasons as to why to age water, not just for the chlorine sake!

I age my water to dissapate the C02 therefore stablizing the ph before the water enters my tank. I also like the fact that I am treating my chloramines before it also enters the tank. I age my water for around 8-12 hours. I dont have to. I can actually do wc's every 2 hours if I wanted because that is how long it takes for the ph to stablize (c02 to dissapate).

Mykiss, if your running out of water when doing wc's, use a larger container if possible. If not, why not do less per wc but split it into 2x a day instead (morning-evening). I actually use 2 45G barrels. I use both hot/cold water and set the temp the same as the tanks. That way I dont have to wait for the heater to do the job. When it comes time for a wc, I add the dechlor (I use Seachem Prime btw), wait 5-10mins, then do the wc!

If you are not sure if you can use your tap water because of ph, test the ph of your tap water initially and the ph of your tanks. If different, you do need to age your tap water to get the ph the same as your tanks. ;)

[Mykiss]

Thanks Ronrca, for the tips!
PT

[Smokey]

mykiss ... yes, it can be that simple.

The product I use _ Laguna Water Prep; Eliminates chlorine and chloramines from tap water; Neturalizes harmful metals. Coats and protects fins and scales. [Manufactures write up].

I add the dechlorinater first ... add the new water ... letting the water "splash" into the bucket. If there is any C02 gas - it will dissapate quickly.

CO2 gas has a high affinatly to water. E.G for every H2O molecule, there can be up to 100 CO2 molecules. [ information from a chemical/scientific paper].

The good news - CO2 - it is fairly easy to break the bond. Air-eation is one method - extreme water turbulance is another. [ Similar to the water fall effect.].

Ron .. I might suggest testing the water, from your barrel, for CO2. You may be surprised!!! lol.

The flowing tap water, through a city's distrabution pipes -- does not contain stable C02. co2 is easy to remove... Extrmem water disturbing - is all it needs.

Smokey

P.S. Ron; if your water has so much C02 in it that it can be measured --stop drinking the water. IT WILL MAKE YOU STERILE!!!
W.H.O. [World Health Organization] consencious!!!! Scary thing to know.

P.S. Ron - is that a jug of Laguna water prep ??. lol

[Smokey]

As for brands . There are all very similar. when cholrine removal... . However, if there is other addatives to your water ---- you must also treat for them.

Ron.. I lived up in you area for over 14 years - the water up your way is stagent ... the ground water is saturated with so many contaminates.. it is unhealthy!!!

Perhaps you must let your stagnent water sit ....
Why not just air-eate the heck out-a-it.??

OHHH I remember -- you do not believe . It can be done.!!!!

Yes, and very simply.

In Alberta, we have some of the most : "naturally "- contaminated waters".

However; we do not have diseases in our water; as of yet...

The W.H.O. has acredited Canada with some of the poorest water ---- due to the lack of proper sanitation practices. etc.
Something the Alberta government is working/upgrading.


Until you have travelled the world and realize just how "POLLUTED" / DANGEROUS/ DEADLY / other waters in the world is ... Have a sigh of relif .. your water is drinkable. Not necessary OK...

however - FOR the life of a special aquatic fish it may not be up to par.

I must appolgise for some of my comnets.

the waters of central Albeta are contamiented - 1999; private engineering results.The overcultivation of the land, poor water management, natural seepage, and the other soures.


I removed myself from such waters. On consoulaion by the experts.

I am lucky ; I can relocated. I AM LUCKY . MY new water has never been used before. OK. it is hard - limestone mountain water. Easy to soften. High in hardness - easy to soften ,,, ! Cool - easy to heat. Pure as the , mountain waters YES .. and just as fresh.

Smokey

[ronrca]

C02 doesnt dissapate as quickly as you think Smokey!
It takes 2 hours for the C02 to dissapate in my barrels. This is based on ph initially from the tap (7.0), after 1 hour (7.4), after 2 hours (7.6) and stays. This is using heavy aeration. Some tap water takes longer to dissapate C02. It needs to be tested before actually knowing how long it actually takes.

;)


ps -- Ron ; if your water has so much c02 in it that it can be measured --stop drinking the water. IT WILL MAKE YOU STERILE!!! W.H.O. consencious!!!!
What are you talking about Smokey?
IT WILL MAKE YOU STERILE!!! Do you drink any pop? What do you think the fuzz is? LOL! What about 'Sparkling Water'?
http://bbbf.queensu.ca/sept03E.html

The reason it does not dissapate in the pipes is because it is pressurized in the pipes thus not allowing gas to dissapate.
The pressure in the water lines keeps it in solution as it travels and warms in the distribution system or in your homes water lines. Epcor website

Btw, here is The City of Edmonton August 2003 water report summary! Not exactly my water but I think its close enough! ;)
http://www.epcor.ca/NR/rdonlyres/e2qs6eoiyg4qjzl7cudw7hj6zc6mz67ydlvxoxajlaojqrj6bc jurhuhhaj7wqv7dts42c2636hlbj2lsr4qmsojs3f/082003_211.pdf

[ronrca]

Cool! I got my tap water parameters e-mailed to me! ;D
Guess what the ph actually is? And here I thought it was always around 7.6-7.8! It is actually 6.91! :(

Nitrate - 0.12mg/l
conductivity@25C - 550uS/cm
along others stuff!

[Smokey]

Ron, sorry ,

W.H.O. - World Health Organization. In their 2002 report, Belgim had the worst water . No sanitation systems. It seems, natural waters, through-out the world, are becoming increasingly "polluted" with nasties.

As far as Edmomtons water, I lived near the cental core, 107 ave and 116st. The water was very stable at 7.3. Alot of other A.C.E. members reported differing pH levels; depending where they lived.

I only drink Club Soda. lol.

Smokey

[GeeCharron]

Man this is thought provoaking stuff. Smokey you must have had tanks for like a million years bud. Anything you wanna share send it my way. I've been a lurker for a bit and finally declocked LOL. Just in the progress of building a wet & dry for myself so this info is so timely. Love this form.

[Smokey]

Gee, you got a p.m. ..
Smokey

[Smokey]

G'day; this post seems to have lost the "engery" it deserves.

As many members have to do the W/C's necessary for the Health of discus, I believe this post, by Ron and the other members of S/D deserves to be reserercted.

If for no other reason than to see what S/D members do for their own water change routiens.
To start with let's review:

Posted by daninthesand- reply#13: Are you using your regular hot water heater to run hot water into your holding barrel?

Reply by Ron[#14]June 23,2003 - Yes, for the time being! Eventually I would like to get my own hot water heater but its not worth it yet.

My Question - has anyone run an independant hot water heater Just for their discus[?].

Post #18 by Dave C.- please read.
Post #19 by Dan. -good reading.
and the rest of the posts. .. all good reading.

What have the members of S/D expierenced - on the water quaility that is pumped in to their tanks[?].

If you have read the many posts of members - water quality is the life support of disucs. and sometimes their demise!.

Smokey

[ronrca]

My new 250G water aging system! :)

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Been almost 2 years ............ time to resurect this again ......lol

The reason?

Setting up a small fishroom for aproximately 12 tanks and have been researching alot of DIY threads and this was a pretty good one ........ except for maybe the MY WAY IS BETTER parts .... lol. But it stayed fairly civil.

Just put my drain in today (just a 2 inch pipe tied into the main drain sticking thru the floor right now) and before i setup the racks & tanks & plumbing .............. Im trying to figure the best method to use and how to route them.

Not sure i should setup all racks and tanks 1st or not .... before plumbing..... especially since the drain pipe will run behind 1 rack and i'll have a sink between 2 racks that i have to plumb to..

Like was mentioned in this thread ............... Im looking for a solution to make things go quicker ............ not automation. I also feel that larger drain lines & more powerful pumps.......... will make things go quicker .......... and not valves to turn water on and off .......... except maybe a float valve or water alarm ....... for refilling barrels.

For quicker draining ............. i have some questions as im certainly not a plumber.

I ran a 2 inch PVC line that runs into a 3 inch line on my main drain. Actually i tied right into the clean out by just unscrewing the cap to it and hooking in there with a 3" - 2" reducer. The only thing that worries me there ..... is it goes straight in and not angled into the main line. (the 2 inch line does have a good angled drop all the way through tho). In other words .. its a T connection instead of a Y connection. I also used the long 90 bends instead of the sharp ones to cut down on friction loss.

I plan on having 1 inch drain lines from each tank T'ed into the 2 inch line. Some of my tanks are drilled and some arent so i figured i would use some of the PVC overflow setups like ive seen posted to drain with. The drilled tanks i figure to put in an overflow tube thats long enough where i could pivot the tube down to drain as much as i need. I wanted to go this route in case i decide to run sumps or even maybe a drip setup down the road. Would a Y connection be better than a T to hook the 1 inch lines to the 2 inch line?

Now after all that ..... i guess my question is ............ will that give me the best draining speed?? Like i said .... im not much of a plumber. Would having the 1 inch lines going to a 2 inch line tied to my main drain .... be just like syphoning with a 1 inch line hooked to a 2 inch line?? Or does the fact that the main drain is vented ..... keep a syphon from forming and slowing the drain speed down?

I also wanted to leave an open drain line to run a hose to for bottom vaccuming ........ will that open line slow the drain down? Would valves on all open lines in my fishroom help to speed things up? Would conncting the vac hose to the drain instead of running into an open line be better?

If a closed drain setup in the fishroom doesnt make a difference ......... i might as well just run the drain to the sink .... and just run a hose from each tank into the sink?

Filling will be a no brainer ... i guess ... lol ...... and i'd just fill from tap since my water is stable ............ but obviously a good pump from storage barrels will fill the tanks quicker than my tap water line ..... even know i do have good water pressure.

Once again ..... after reading my own post ........ it sounded pretty confusing and again ..... long winded ........... but hopefully some of you know what im talking about and can tell me the proper theories for optimal fishroom plumbing.

I'd sure apprciate it .......... cause im anxious to get this finished and have been racking my brain for 3 days on this and want to make it as efficient as possible.

[ronrca]

Just put my drain in today (just a 2 inch pipe tied into the main drain sticking thru the floor right now) and before i setup the racks & tanks & plumbing .............. Im trying to figure the best method to use and how to route them.

Not sure i should setup all racks and tanks 1st or not .... before plumbing..... especially since the drain pipe will run behind 1 rack and i'll have a sink between 2 racks that i have to plumb to..
Hmm! I installed the drain line first then slowly started adding the tanks. The nice part is that its easy to install the drain line however I found that my tanks drains do not line up as I would like them to with the drains I installed before hand. Not a big deal I guess, just a pain. My problem was I didnt have the tank stands built to get proper dimensions therefore........
In your case, make sure you leave enough working room behind the tanks. It may even help if you build the drain line together with placing the tanks to get the 'best fit'.







Would a Y connection be better than a T to hook the 1 inch lines to the 2 inch line? I would say yes however I believe that it would depend on what your flow rate is.
http://www.russellwatergardens.com/pipe.htm#comparison
The link is a comparison of different pipe sizes and their flow rates. If the flow rate would be reaching max, different connection would help.



Would having the 1 inch lines going to a 2 inch line tied to my main drain .... be just like syphoning with a 1 inch line hooked to a 2 inch line?? Or does the fact that the main drain is vented ..... keep a syphon from forming and slowing the drain speed down?

I also wanted to leave an open drain line to run a hose to for bottom vaccuming ........ will that open line slow the drain down? Would valves on all open lines in my fishroom help to speed things up? Would conncting the vac hose to the drain instead of running into an open line be better? lol! Im not a plumber either and cant answer all the questions. A vacuum system has one disadvantage which is losing the vacuum.

Atm, I have 1" tank drain lines tieing into a 3" drain line. I usually pump out 2 tanks with Mag950s at the same time and never had problems with overflowing the drain line or back up.

HTH somewhat! ;)

[andyg]

hi all
hope im not the only one to ask this but i keep seeing
the abbreviation quot can somebody help my simple mind
and let me know what it means
many thanks andy:confused::confused::confused:

[Eddie]

hi all
hope im not the only one to ask this but i keep seeing
the abbreviation quot can somebody help my simple mind
and let me know what it means
many thanks andy:confused::confused::confused:

Hey Andy, thats an error from when the forum was switched over to a more updated version. Those posts that have the (quot) are from 2003.

HTH

Eddie