Flubendazole side effect....

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Though flubendazole is a safe medication by many accounts and experiences including my own, I have a concern. This past year I have seen several posts where people have asked for help on tail standers. During the discussion it came out that they had recently used flubendazole.

I am wondering if this is a real side effect we should be aware of . If you had fish that exhibited any symptoms of tail standing, head standing, or loss of balence with in 1-2 weeks of treating with flubendazole please post your experiences, including the dose you used and the time you used it.

Part of my concern comes from what I have seen posted here, but also from some telephone conversations I had with people on the board. I question the dose being used also here because, the dose used to be
1/4 teaspoon per 20 gal when Jehmco sold it last year,

Florida tropical fish farms dose is 1/2teaspoon per 30 Gal., both of these doses are for the same 5% flubendazole... Mfg by chemaqua. That difference in dose could be a problem if there is a side effect in some fish.

Please help the hobby here, and share your experiences with this med. I don't believe its a common side effect, but it may be related to your water chemistry and if we can get a few cases together... maybe we can put together some similarities.

thanks,
al




There are others as well as those that did not post about it. Coincidence?

-al

[fcdiscus]

I have never experienced that problem. I use 1/4 tsp per 20 first time, then cut back to 1/8 on next dosages. Frank

[Miles]

No problems here. I use the same dosage as Mr. Frank does.

Miles

[barron]

Hi Al

It worked fine at 1/8 teasppon in food 1/2 given then 12 hrs. later the other 1/2 given.

And that is using 22.2 % panacur.

So that would be equal to a little more then a 1/2 teaspoon of the 5% stuff.

Maybe when adding in water this happens but I add only to food.

Treated well over a month ago, no side effects noted.

Barron :)

[richgrenfell]

i've never used it on discus, but I did use it on several species of wild apistos. I bought the stuff from ftffa and dosed as they directed. I never had any problems. The fish I treated went on to live and breed just fine. Again it wasn't discus I used it on.

Rich

[brewmaster15]

Hi Barron,
Flubendazole and fenbendazole are chemically related but not the same. Flubendazole is commonly added to water, and can also be used in food.. But Fenbendazole (panacur) should only be used in the food. ...never add it to the water.

hth,
al

[DavidH]

Used it at same dose as Frank for 21 days. No apparent side effects yet. During treatment had a couple of spawns that fungus. They have just spawn again yesterday don't know it this bunch will, make it. I'll keep you posted.

Dave

[barron]

Hi Al

Your correct on Panacur, it should only be mixed with food.
alot of people think they can just add it to the water like
the 5%.

I wonder if the people with head standing are adding stronger doses and adding to the water. This may affect them. Higher doses in the water may have something to do with it. That is not seen at normal dosage.

Barron :)

[Barb Newell]

Hi, I've used flubendazole at 1/4 tsp/20 gals for 11 days (as I recall) for worms with water changes in between dosing. I wiped the sides down and rinsed the sponges regularly. I got a LOT of slime build up in my tank while using flubendazole.

I have lost 8 fish while using flubendazole. Around day 3 - 4 of treatment, the fish all tail stand, they struggle to swim, get themselves up them whirl back to the bottom of the tank. They become so exhausted, then almost lay on the bottom of the tank, they never recover. The last 3 fish I lost were healthy, I decided to deworm them because I hadn't done so, lost them all.

Coincidence? maybe....

Barb

[lkleung007]

Hey Al,

Interesting topic for discussion!! ;)

My latest treatment with flubendazole was not so good. I used 1/2 tsp per 30 gallon as recommend by Florida tropical fish farm for 21 days. After 2 weeks, I noticed that one of the Discus starting to headstand and struggling to gain it's balance. Heck at times the fish would just float on the water. The Discus is still headstanding and may never recover. Although I have not lost any Discus to flubendazole, I will be using a lower dose next time...if there is a next time!!

Regards, Lester

[blackghost]

Hell i should have read this,
i Treated my 16 discus adult one with Flubendazone and about 6 of them started tail standing.
Doses were same as jemcho.
All recovered but one is still tail standing,
I think there is a connection between flubendazone and tail standing but it may be governed by some other factors.

I'm 15 days into my flubendazole treatment....no head-standing or any other negative effects that I can see...Fish is still not passing feces of the right color though...it's still white...
david

[Ardan]

Hi,
If the feces are white it could be hex (spironucleus) and Metro works best if it is.
Is it white and slimy? Fish not eating?

Ardan,
maybe i should've clarified...the fish isn't passing white feces, it's stomach lining that's coming out...other than that, the fish looks fine...hard to say if he's eating-he's definitely not wasting away or anything...
david

[Ardan]

Hi David,
Did the fish have hex? Oftentimes stomach lining comes out with that . Or is that a result of worms? Just curious as to why you were using flubendazole and the results.
thanks

[OEG]

WOW- i just started treating a pair of red diamonds with flu and this being the third day of treatment and the female has started head standing, noticed it this morning as a matter. It must have something to do with the med and i be some strains are more resistant to the side effects than others. I would almost lay bets that the spotted fish are more effected than the other strains, weak *** strains i hate them but yous got to love them also.
Oscar
PS
i say this cause i have a pair of SS that are on it as well and not showing any side effects.

[brewmaster15]

Oscar,
Pull that tail stainder out of the flubendazole and place in a tank without it , with luck it'll snap out of it in a few days.

hth,
al

[Smokey]

Interesting post. Keep the replys comming.

Smokey

[Bladerunner]

Hi,

I think a lot of you will find this very interesting.

As you know, us Brits are not as fortunate as yourselves in having such a wide range of meds over the counter and in most cases have to rely on vetinarian intervention.

Anyway, the week before Xmas, i succesfully diagnosed Roundworms in one of my 6 Discus..varying strains..had them for between 10 months and 2 years.

Off i popped to the vet...prescribed Panacur Liquid 10% strength. I actually queried it with the vet at the time as i was looking for Panacur granules but he said that they only had liquid and he had checked his reference books and it was ok to use.

Fair enough i thought...back home dosed at 1ml per 50l of water..to be repeated in one month. First day, i was delighted..pretty good worm clearout that i hoovered up...fish looked better coloured and were like gannets eating their food!

Day three....All fish develop a milky white substance over their bodies and eyes..all crowded together in a corner.
Immediate 90% water change followed by adding both activated carbon and 2 Polyfilters.

Day 4...tail standing starts...conduct regular daily water changes with re-mineralised RO of 30%..no change..have to euthanise my smallest Discus as it begins thrashing wildly in the tank and damages itself.

Day 5...Boxing day for God's sake!! (day after Xmas), turn tank lights on...utter carnage...22 dead Cardinal Tetras, 11 dead Hatchet fish, 1 dead Discus. Remaining 4 Discus are either tail standing, laying completely flat on the substrate or completely flat on the surface.

Anyway...to cut an already long story short, as of today, i have lost 6 adult Discus, 40 Cardinal tetras and 14 Hatchet fish..no losses for the last 2 weeks thank god!!

As you might imagine..i have had several detailed and meaty discussions with my vet, Professional Discus breeders in the UK and a wholemultitude of Discus fanciers.

The end result is that nobody in the UK has heard of any side affects associated with Panacur liquid...the two leading fish vetinarians in the UK were spoken to by my vet and neither could confirm any side affects nor questioned the dosage/application or prescription. Basically my vet was NOT liable.

The only person (who i spoke to) world wide who had any sort of experience with Panacur liquid were Ron and Robyn Futtrell. I discussed the case in some detail with Robyn who had only experienced a case whereby the med was added to food and the fish obviously died.

I post this now as a warning to anybody administering Panacur liquid Fenbendazole 10% at a dosage of 1ml per 50l of water.....not enough is known about it's use in fish..you could end up with Discus Armageddon like me!!

Anyway...as you can imagine, i had a pretty horrific Xmas and New Year and am now busy preparing my tank for another 8 Discus that i hope to purchase in the next couple of months.

Hope you found the above info interesting and perhaps useful as well.

Thanks and best regards,

Martin

[Smokey]

Martin;

Sorry to hear that you lost the discus.

Thank you for your insite and expierence.

Smokey

[Smokey]

Yet, even with this wisdom; There is the problem; with some persons, not being able to understand and properely administer the approiate medication's for tropical fish.
Many more discus will be destroyed.

Smokey
P.S. not to single out any one particular person. Please be very aware of what you administer to your tropical fish tank. AND the proper proceedure, necessary for the medication.

[SpideySteve]

I found this thread by doing a search on the meds.

I was able to aquire some fenbendazole from my vet (I've been taking my dog there for almost 3 yrs now, so I have a good relationship with him). I told the vet what it was for, how I was going to administer it, etc etc and he agreed. He actually gave it to me, didn't even bother selling it to me since I only needed a little bit from him.

To make a long story short, I've used it 3 times now, once in my community tank, and twice for new fish in QT. The 1st two times were perfect, and I followed instructions exactly. I got them from DPH:

http://article.discusnews.com/cat-02/panacur-1.shtml

No problems, both times worms were expelled, and fish were happy. The 3rd time (just last week) I wasn't paying attention to the amount I was putting into their food. (Stupid, stupid, stupid :-\) I added WAY too much of the powder to the food, and I got the exact same results: dark colours, tailstanding, etc etc. 5 out of the 6 of my new baby (2.5 - 3") F1 heckels ... dead. :'(

I guess the morale of the story is: pay attention to what you're doing with meds. (As Smokey already mentioned.)

I know that bladerunner was following instructions, but I would have to say that this was too much medicine for them to handle.

[SpideySteve]

Just wondering Bladerunner: what, if anything, did you do when you noticed they weren't looking good?

Large wc's, salt, high temp, epsom salts, etc???

[raglanroad]

I think there is a connection between flubendazone and tail standing but it may be governed by some other factors. I can't be more specific, as I'm not sure of all the treatmrents given, but could solvents ( acetone or DMSO ) be a factor in the variability of the results ?

These solvents may be somewhat involved, as DMSO is said to be able to drive pathogens through the skin and evade the body's first lines of defense. When applying DMSO to arthritic joints, the caution that is important is to have absolutely uncontaminated DMSO, and also you must thoroughly cleanse the skin first.

In addition, acetone may cause bacterial bloom, and could have a similar effect as the DMSO, driving pathogens straight into the fish.

[raglanroad]

You're onto something here, Al. New thread on Angelfish Forum 2 . "Medication Query". Tailstander Discus after F. treatment.

[raglanroad]

Wonder what the effect of these meds/ solvents is on the plastic, sponges, and silicones. Maybe they are being dissolved into the water.
It could also be that water parameters such as pH play a role, or TDS, driving the meds in, at a far greater rate for some water conditions.
Also, wondering just what solvents are included in the paste or liquid forms.

[TINNGGG]

Hi

Raglan - thanks for telling me of this. If only I'd known sooner :sigh

I didn't use any solvents.

The wormers themselves should not have any solvents as the solvents in question are for topical use only (and considering our fish are small potatoes beside some multi-million dollar TB that might get sick from it, they aren't taking any chances)

[raglanroad]

Tinnggg, DMSO is routinely used on racehorses for joint problems. It may be in the paste, as a super solvent, to drive in the medicine. It is considered safe if the area is sterilized first. Fish are not sterilized first.
Here it is http://www.vetvax.com/linaments.html
I am starting to think the fish die from columnaris AJS1. Loss of control, and whitish slime, hard breathing. The white slime may not be evident if the fish die quickly. At most, a few opaque oval patches on the clear fins.

[Kagan]

Hi everyone,

I have used flubendezole in one of my tanks last week. I have applied a rather unknown method I guess. I have used lactic acid + flubendezole + water and then added to the tank. The mix stayed a week in the tank WITHOUT no water changes. Before and after addition I have done 40% water change. On the second day of treatment the water turned whitish and stayed like that about 20 hours. Then it passed. I did not have any abnormalities or I guess side effects. Now the fish are all ok. I had one sick fish in that tank and 2 fish which were way out of the strong form. Now all are ok, eating and a bit more "alive" (I mean those three move much more, come to food and so on)... We will see what happens next.

Oh btw, two pairs have formed out of the group I dont know why... Maybe just a chance...

Kagan

[Apistomaster]

I have used flubendazole on my Heckels without noticing any problems. Heckels are very sensitive to adverse things be they external such as water quality or internal diseases.
I have had experiences with fancy domestic discus having balance problems caused by gas in ther digestive track which can be stressful for dicus and keeper alike. It happens when too much dry food is fed and some times is associated with the sequence and types food their are fed. I notice this most when the dicus are in adolescence and like teenagers I think that not a the parts of the anatomy(swim bladder control) is in balance with their rapidly growing bodies because after they have grown up and reach spawning size/age the problem disappears.

[Apistomaster]

I have used flubendazole on my Heckels without noticing any problems. Heckels are very sensitive to adverse things be they external such as water quality or internal diseases.
I have had experiences with fancy domestic discus having balance problems caused by gas in ther digestive track which can be stressful for discus and keeper alike. It happens when too much dry food is fed and some times is associated with the sequence and types food their are fed. I notice this most when the discus are in adolescence and like teenagers, I think that not all the parts of the anatomy(swim bladder control) is in balance with their rapidly growing bodies because after they have grown up and reach spawning size/age the problem disappears.

[pcsb23]

I have frequently used flubenol (flubendazole) but have never used any third party agent to dissolve it. I have never experienced any adverse reactions. I use it as a 2 day treatment a week apart if needed. Treat day 1, leave for 24 to 48 hours w/c treat again then normal w/c routine, repeat a week later if needed. I have found it very useful when nematode and/or tapeworms are suspected and the fish are not eating. No adverse affects on the biofiletr and it can be used safely in a planted tank, but it will kill ALL snails so be warned. It is very effective against flukes and other parasites too.

These are my personal experiences of using it, I consider it a real asset, particularly as we can now get it over the counter in the UK.

I do know though that it is a pain to dissolve, I wonder if the various mediums people use to dissolve it in (alcohols etc) are trhe more likely cause of any problems observed. Maybe they afect the chemical characteristics or the way it is used by the fish. I dissolve the powder in pure RO and stir continuously.

[Ardan]

Maybe there are different types?
I have some from Florida Tropical Fish Farms (not used yet) that says it is 5%.
Here there is a "special blend for tropical fish" in the UK.
http://www.flubenol.co.uk/index.htm

???
Ardan

[Paulf]

Maybe there are different types?
I have some from Florida Tropical Fish Farms (not used yet) that says it is 5%.
Here there is a "special blend for tropical fish" in the UK.
http://www.flubenol.co.uk/index.htm

???
Ardan

Pure flubendazole is not water soluble... hence why people use acetone or DMSO, neither of which are good for fish, Flubenol 15 has another ingredient that was specially developed to be safe for fish use in.

The problem with Flubenol at 5% is that its not strong enough to kill all internal parasites and they can become immune to it and thats one of the reasons why Flubenol 15 was developed. It kills all parasites, is approved by the English Vetinary Medicines Directorate, cannot harm fish and also not be overdosed:D

And yes, you can have it shipped from the UK from the site linked above as long as you email first:)

[brewmaster15]

PaulF,

I think it important and fair to this forum's membership for you to explain exactly what your relationship is with

http://www.flubenol.co.uk/

The company you happen to own. If you are going to be critical of a product as you are you should at least be upfront about your possible biases. Just leaving the Link to your website in your profile isn't enough.

Thank you,
al

[Timbo]

personally, its really kind of hard for me to consider an opinion that has a direct financial interest attached to it, as being unbiased

[Paulf]

PaulF,

I think it important and fair to this forum's membership for you to explain exactly what your relationship is with

http://www.flubenol.co.uk/

The company you happen to own. If you are going to be critical of a product as you are you should at least be upfront about your possible biases. Just leaving the Link to your website in your profile isn't enough.

Thank you,
al

Fair point al and sorry for the delay in replying.

Yes that is my site, although I only sell it, not make it, as do a number of people in the UK, some of who have been selling it for years. Its not available in the states yet (no distributor).
The main reason I set it up was not many people know/knew about Flubenol 15 and have been using illegal meds to worm their fish here and I also saw it as a way to make a little extra cash.

There was a debate on another forum about flubenol15 and how good it was and comparing it to Prazi meds available in the states and other countries (Its not for sale here) The outcome of this debate was that the question was asked to a UK Government vet into the benefits and downsides to both meds. When this has been answered, I will post here what is said :)

[brewmaster15]

Thank you Paul.:)

-al

[Mistakes R Crucial]

Hi everyone,

Haven't been here for quite a while and the main reason for calling in today is not a happy one. Over the last 8 days I have lost 700 fish, it (whatever it is)has completely wiped out my fishroom including over 600 juveniles, 12 breeding pairs and around 20 spare adult breeders. We have looked at bacterial infections, poisoning and God knows how many other scenarios but when I came across this thread my heart nearly stopped.

I have been waiting for Levamisole from my vet for nearly 4 months and because she couldn't get hold of it she suggested I use Fenbendazole (Panacur) at the rate of 2ml per 100 litres of water, it was in liquid form. I am very careful with meds and the dosage rates are always spot on. That was about 3 weeks ago. The first thing I noticed was a few 5 cent pieced sized juves, just 1 or 2, dead every morning. I put it down to a few flukes hanging around. A couple of weeks later all my breeders just looked off colour and not as mobile as they normally were and the older juves (7-8cms) started to get a whitish shadow around their dorsal and tail, like the start of fin rot. From there on in it was like the nightmare from hell! Firstly all the juves would huddle in the corner of a tank, started losing some slime coat and were gasping for breath, I thought we had the Plague. One by one the adults would hit the bottom of the tank and stay for a few days until they died, they just didn't have the energy to stay afloat. Most of them were tail standing prior to hitting the bottom of the tank and this they would do for around 24 hours. I had one or two others that were head standing before they hit the bottom. The fin rot, within 24 hours with the juves, has simply been horrendous with complete tails disappearing within that time. This has not been the case with the adults, a little fraying here and there but nothing much at all. The juveniles or at least many of them are black but the adults, every single one of them has died in full colour, no stress induced colour changes whatsoever.

Until we get the results back from the State Government Lab I cannot be sure what has caused this but the symptoms a few other people here have experienced are very similar, too similar to my mind, for Fenbendazole not to have something to do with this.

Any comments would be gratefully received.
MAC

[brewmaster15]

I'm sorry MAC,
IMO,Those symptoms are consistent with what happens when you dose FENBendazole in the water... Its recommended to be dosed in the food...not water.

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/nematodes6.shtml

I have done experiments where I tried it on culls after Burning good discus and the results are verifiable and repeatable. That dewormer should not be added to the water, IMO> ever.

-al

[brewmaster15]

some more info...

I believe in addition to the external burns, a side effect is gill damage...I had talked with a pathologist about this many years ago... Its why I have stressed the use of this FENBENDAZOLE only in the food...never added to the water.

I think it was Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd. Shes at the Florida coop extension. A search will find a wealth of info shes published and her contact info. Who ever I spoke with told me that the med destroys the gills of angelfish...so I can't imagine discus would be different.

HTh,
al

[Mistakes R Crucial]

Thank you Al, I am grateful for your information but it also makes me pretty mad as the vet we deal with specializes in fish and has a Phd so one would have thought she would keep up with the times. Obviously not the case.
MAC

[brewmaster15]

Hi MAC,

I understand the feelings here.. unfortunately Fenbendazole though used as a fish dewormer, is technically not marketed as such, nor as far as I know is it approved as such... Therefore..I am not sure the vet can be blamed. But its surprising that a Fish DOC didn't know this potential issue.

It is a terrible loss though and I am sorry for you!:(

I think you should try to document the recommendations of fish pathologists and then talk with your vet..At least you can protect others down the line.

hth,
al

[Mistakes R Crucial]

Thanks Al, I'm not out to blame anyone, I'm past that to be honest. It's been a very emotional week and I am simply looking for answers and I think I may have found one.
MAC

[Eyal]

Sorry to hear about your lost :( :(

[Mistakes R Crucial]

Thanks Eyal, one thing this has proved is that Discus people are a breed all their own. The support I'm receiving from Discus people in Australia is simply overwhelming.
MAC

[FishyMatty]

About two weeks ago now I noticed red worms hanging out of the anus of one of my male apistos. He died shortly after. I began to read about what these worms were and how to treat. I found an article about using fenbenzadole(panacur) with exact dosing amounts to mix in the food and to pour in the tank. About two days after I began treatment I found this sticky. After reading it I started trying to remove all traces of the panacur from my tanks. (two tanks infested with camallanus)
Since I discontinued treatment I lost 3 discus and the remaining are tail standing with no balance for swimming and now not eating at all. In my other tank Many of my apistos are visibly infected and since the major sets of water changes to remove the meds many of the fish have died and their fins began to rot off. Still visibly infected, but still eating unlike the discus.
Now I need to know from the experienced, how likely is it that all the fish in these tanks have it just not visible, and should I try a different treatment or just euthanize all my fish, and the discus who now have not eaten in a few days and are doing worse each day, should I kill them. This is really stressful and I just want it to be over.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Matty,
Sorry about the issues you are having.. the med you used is closely related to flubendazole and they both can have the same effects...the burned skin/fins and tail standing... Fenbendazole should never be added to the tank as the effect is worse than flubendazole. It sounds like you poured it into the tank? where ever those directions came from , they were not the best.....
It is safe to use in the food....


Camillanus
Camillanus is easily recognized as a small thread-like worm protruding from the anus of the fish. Control of this nematode in non-food fish is with fenbendazole, a common antihelminthic. Fenbendazole can be mixed with fish food (using gelatin as a binder) at a rate of 0.25% for treatment. It should be fed for three days, and repeated in three weeks.source...
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/medicine_cabinet/freshwater_parasites_intro.shtml




The tail standers may recover...but it can take weeks...watch for secondary bacterial infections on the burned fish... keep the tanks very clean.

On the worms....instead of treating with panacur... you can try levamisole...its safe to add to the water...as a 24 hour bath... it should be safe ..its a sheep dewormer sold under the name tramisole.......either that or rest the fish a week or two and use the panacur in the food as directed above...

hth,
al

[FishyMatty]

I would just like to add one last thing about the experience I had with fenbenzadole.
My other tank of Apistos were heavily infected with camilanus worms and after soaking their food in the panacur for 5 days the worms have completely disappeared. For anyone that can only get panacur be sure to only use it in the food and don't let any get into the tank. There was no adverse side effects in the apistos from the panacur.

[MostlyDiscus]

Beware the Fenbenzadole. I saw this sticky and thought I would put it into play again. I used Fenbenzadole with dmso and had the same results as most people on this thread. Tail standers and death. I have lost over 100 fish now and more to follow. Kenny save me some discus. Ed

[pcsb23]

Beware the Fenbenzadole. I saw this sticky and thought I would put it into play again. I used Fenbenzadole with dmso and had the same results as most people on this thread. Tail standers and death. I have lost over 100 fish now and more to follow. Kenny save me some discus. Ed
Just a quick note here. Flubendazole and Fenbendazole are not the same medicine. I believe they are from the same family of medicines.

Fenbendazole must NEVER be used in water, use in food.

Flubendazole may be used in water and food.

There is some evidence to suggest that DMSO is harmful to fish, even Untergasser issues a warning in his book. Flubendazole can be distributed in the water and allowed to dissolve that way, I have found that by using a 2 litre pop or soda bottle with RO water in I can get a decent suspension going after shaking it vigorously for a while.

[rfeiller]

when Flubendazole was first introduced into the hobby in the 80's it was mixed with either DMSO or pharmacutical grade acetone. the purpose was to eradicate formalin resistant gill flukes. i maintained several thousand discus in my hatchery at the time and never once did i have the side effects that i have read here. i acquired my flubendazol from german discus breeders or from florida fish farms. i used it on fry the size of a dime to old large adults. i did experience a reduction in breeding for a couple of weeks after treatment.

i never mixed it with the food, always used it in suspension with DMSO. i'm at a loss to understand what has been going on lately with the headstanding.

one very important fact with DMSO or any carrier, the carrier will also carry toxins in the water through the fish's tissue along with the flubendazole. my tanks were void of anything but sponge filters, potted plants, and central mixing systems. no heaters in tanks. the DMSO has the ability to penatrate the "winter eggs" of flukes. you can treat with formalin every few days till you die of old age and a few fluke eggs will survive.

by the way if someone tells you that there discus are totally parasite free...RUN there is not such animal

[Daniella]

This is scary. Anyone have tried Hikary Wormer Plus? it is said to be safe and designed for fish.

[seanyuki]

I think you meant Kusuri Worm Plus.....looks like a good product but available in UK & not yet in the States/Canada.


Quote...

New Wormer Plus - 500 gallon

images/new-wormer-plus.jpg

Roll over the image for details, or click to enlarge image

Price: £6.99
Ask a question | Tell a friend | Write a review
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NEW..... WORMER PLUS.

Worms are a fact of life for discus; every discus carries its own complement of worms. When in good health these worms are not a problem, but as soon as the fish is stressed or bullied etc its natural immunity is compromised and worms can take a hold. A sure sign of a worm problem is when a discus still eats, yet is wafer thin with the famous pinched in look above the eyes.

New wormer plus will rid discus of tapeworms, leeches, gill flukes, body flukes, fish lice (Argulus), and internal helminths such as round worms, pin worms, nematodes, hydra, ick, velvet and protozoa plus a host of other pest.

This product can be mixed with other aquarium products and medications. Even snails will never again be a pest when using this product, just once a month. Although a second dose after seven days may be needed in heavy infestations of flukes, or if treating for Hexamita. So when your discus looks emaciated or just worn out use new wormer plus on a regular basis and do them a favour.

Using new wormer plus once a month will help to keep your valued discus and tropical fish in tip top health. It is not necessary to turn off U/V sterilisation during its application, but it is advisable to remove carbon etc whilst using this medication for full effect.

This product can be used with rays and is safe to use in aquariums with plants, and it will not harm the biological filtration in your filters. Not to be confused with the old wormer plus, the new version has a different mix of ingredients and is manufactured by Kusuri products ltd that holds a manufacturing licence to this product. It is different to the recently used powdered wormers. Flubendazole is still the main active ingredient in the new version. Then naturally sourced calcium carbonate acts as a gentle booster and pick me up after the pests are killed.

This product does not contain antibiotics and is still marketed with the small animal exemption scheme. It is 100% legal; VMD approved, passed with risk phrases also safety phrases and has been covered with a COSHH sheet. The new wormer plus has a easy to use 30 gallon measuring scoop (supplied) in every pack which is another improvement, making it easy to measure out and to administer the treatment. Instructions are on the back of every pack.

This wormer will not raise your PH, TDS or GH, if fact with the many test Kusuri and Plymouth discus have done you may get a slight drop. Great news for Amazon species.

Now keeping your favourite tropical fish has never been easier. Some one at the recent Glee trade show in Birmingham said to me, “after 30 years of discus keeping why all of a sudden do I need to worm my fish?” The answer is simple, 30 years ago discus was said to be difficult to keep, many said impossible. Discus then had a bad name as a difficult fish to keep. NOT SO, just misunderstood. As long as they have the right conditions, free of parasites etc they are just as easy to keep as any other tropicals, with understanding. Then came all the different worming tactics that actually seemed to work. Was this a fad? Or was this something that someone actually had a hook on? All of a sudden discus was easier to keep, not just because of the parasite control, but more.

It is recommended to worm your discus once a month for trouble free discus keeping, and this will give them a flying start if introducing new stock.

Model: WP500


Unquote

Cheers
Francis http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/th_drink2_mini.gif (http://s639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/?action=view&current=drink2_mini.gif)



This is scary. Anyone have tried Hikary Wormer Plus? it is said to be safe and designed for fish.

[CarolF]

I have not used this product yet but I did order it and received my package. I no longer have discus and will be trying it on some of my angels.

They will ship to the us and it is reasonable. I spent $55 or $56 dollars for enough product to treat 4000 gallons and that is with shipping.

[Daniella]

I have ordered it from plymouth discus in the UK and received it in Canada without any problem. I will try it soon as I just got a new discus (white butterly) that does not eat and has some white poo (sort of clear white poo) and it has stopped eating.

It might be hex, not sure, but I will try it on that fish in my QT.

after many email exchange with the company, they said they never had any head or tail standing from using Wormer plus and they said that tail or head standing is more bacterial than it is caused by medication. Could be the solvant used also by some people.





I think you meant Kusuri Worm Plus.....looks like a good product but available in UK & not yet in the States/Canada.



Cheers
Francis http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/th_drink2_mini.gif (http://s639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/?action=view&current=drink2_mini.gif)

[Daniella]

I did try Kushuri Wormer Plus on my white butterfly that was not eating and it did not do head or tail standing on that fish. Not sure what he had but he never eated since I got it 2 months ago and finaly died this week. I tried metro fist and it did not help then tried flubendazole and did not help either.

But after a treatment course with Wormer Plus there was no head or tail standing. I did this treatment about a month ago and when it died it was not head or tail standing either. It just die from not eating all that time.

[Daniella]

Panacur is fenbendazole no? How come the vet did not know it should not be added in the water and only put in food???


How come he/she did not know you can only use flubendazole in the water and not fenbendazole?

How come 2 leading vet did not know about this?? wow very very scary!!

and last but not least, this thread was about side effect of flubendazole. Why people refer to fenbendazole since it is not the same med at all? Maybe most people having bad side effect are incorrectly using fenbendazole instead thinking it's the same as flubendazole? confusing.

I think your vet was very liable for this. This restriction about fenbendazole is all over the net. Even I knew about it.



Hi,


The end result is that nobody in the UK has heard of any side affects associated with Panacur liquid...the two leading fish vetinarians in the UK were spoken to by my vet and neither could confirm any side affects nor questioned the dosage/application or prescription. Basically my vet was NOT liable.

The only person (who i spoke to) world wide who had any sort of experience with Panacur liquid were Ron and Robyn Futtrell. I discussed the case in some detail with Robyn who had only experienced a case whereby the med was added to food and the fish obviously died.

I post this now as a warning to anybody administering Panacur liquid Fenbendazole 10% at a dosage of 1ml per 50l of water.....not enough is known about it's use in fish..you could end up with Discus Armageddon like me!!

[shawnhu]

Panacur is fenbendazole no? How come the vet did not know it should not be added in the water and only put in food???


How come he/she did not know you can only use flubendazole in the water and not fenbendazole?

How come 2 leading vet did not know about this?? wow very very scary!!

and last but not least, this thread was about side effect of flubendazole. Why people refer to fenbendazole since it is not the same med at all? Maybe most people having bad side effect are incorrectly using fenbendazole instead thinking it's the same as flubendazole? confusing.

I think your vet was very liable for this. This restriction about fenbendazole is all over the net. Even I knew about it.

Daniella,

You're right on the money about the confusion, and the effects of the drugs when used improperly. Both drugs are very similar, and I believe they target the same parasites. However, as you've clearly stated, one is to used in the water, and the other is strictly in food. With this thread, and forum, hopefully more people come to realize that the two drugs are not the same, and should take caution as to it's proper use in the aquarium.

I've had no ill effects from using Fenbendazole.

[mbviola1]

I am in the process of doing two 100 gallon tanks. It is one week; no side effects except they appear to getting an appetite and stools are becoming normal again. I am using a 10%; 1/2 tsp. to 40 gallons.
So far so good; what I am surprised about is the length of the treatment that people are doing. Who mentioned 3 weeks on a medication? Kemo?
Also feed very light and med seems to work fast.
All but one fish is back to normal and that fish is small and probably not worth anymore work than this.
Would love to have a dialouge with anyone regarding this and diet.
Personal messages welcomed.
Michael

[Daniella]

It depends for what you are treating. If it is for worms then not necessary to treat for 3 weeks but if you are treating for flukes, that surely require some time.

You are using 10% of what? Flubendazole or fenbendazole?




I am in the process of doing two 100 gallon tanks. It is one week; no side effects except they appear to getting an appetite and stools are becoming normal again. I am using a 10%; 1/2 tsp. to 40 gallons.
So far so good; what I am surprised about is the length of the treatment that people are doing. Who mentioned 3 weeks on a medication? Kemo?
Also feed very light and med seems to work fast.
All but one fish is back to normal and that fish is small and probably not worth anymore work than this.
Would love to have a dialouge with anyone regarding this and diet.
Personal messages welcomed.
Michael

[smiley]

Have started using Kusuri wormer plus..Looks good currently. No headstanding atleast for the moment...Stringy white poo for the one effected...2 days done...

[Eddie]

Have started using Kusuri wormer plus..Looks good currently. No headstanding atleast for the moment...Stringy white poo for the one effected...2 days done...

Isn't Kusuri wormer a food though? I think the side effects were related to Flubendazole being added directly to the water. Could be wrong :o

Yup, I was wrong. Let us know how it goes!

Eddie

[smiley]

Its adding to the water directly...Scary reading all these posts..but had to go through it as we dont get Levamisole here...the effect on this one is immediate..others are eating...have moderate plants in the tank as well...risking the whole tank but need to confirm a lot of things with this process as it was time to deworm all my fishes after all this time...

Just praying everything goes okay...

[Eddie]

Its adding to the water directly...Scary reading all these posts..but had to go through it as we dont get Levamisole here...the effect on this one is immediate..others are eating...have moderate plants in the tank as well...risking the whole tank but need to confirm a lot of things with this process as it was time to deworm all my fishes after all this time...

Just praying everything goes okay...

Yeah, I am sure there alot of variables to consider too, such as make-up of water, temperature, etc.

Praying with you buddy!

Take care,

Eddie

[Bilbo_wh]

I am extreemly grateful that some people have opened discussion on Fenbendazole on a Flubendazole post.

Like our Austrailain friends we cannot get powdered Fenbendazole, its only avaliable as a liquid called Panacur 100 (10%) and I had recently ordered some.

I am not willing to risk this stuff at all anywhere near my apistos or discus.

Is there any thing that Fenben or Fluben is needed for that cannot be sorted with Metronidazole, Praziquantel, Levamisole, fresh garlic or pumpkin seeds?

[Eddie]

I am extreemly grateful that some people have opened discussion on Fenbendazole on a Flubendazole post.

Like our Austrailain friends we cannot get powdered Fenbendazole, its only avaliable as a liquid called Panacur 100 (10%) and I had recently ordered some.

I am not willing to risk this stuff at all anywhere near my apistos or discus.

Is there any thing that Fenben or Fluben is needed for that cannot be sorted with Metronidazole, Praziquantel, Levamisole, fresh garlic or pumpkin seeds?

Fenben or Fluben will accomplish the same effects as Levimasole and vice versa.

Eddie

[MGKelly]

Quick question: how much of a dose for 10% Flubendazole to 5 gallons of water.

I've read 1/4 gram to 5 gallons and 1/2 gram to 5 gallons, does anyone know for sure?


thanks, Joe

[brewmaster15]

Quick question: how much of a dose for 10% Flubendazole to 5 gallons of water.

I've read 1/4 gram to 5 gallons and 1/2 gram to 5 gallons, does anyone know for sure?


thanks, Joe
Joe,
I have never used 10% flubendazole( be very sure its not fenbendazole!)

but flubendazole used to be sold as a 5% flubendazole formulation by chemaqua and that was dosed at 1/4 teasoon per 20 gals.
hth,
al

[boxters]

If what you have is flubendazole the correct dosage is 1/4 teaspoon per 30 gallons (114 litres)

[MGKelly]

Thanks Guys, I bought the 10% flubendazole online and below are the recommended doses.
The reason i asked was that these are much higher doses than i've seem recommended elsewhere.
This is just a copy and past from the website. thanks, Joe

Flubendazole is useful for controlling intestinal parasites. These parasites include most of the nematodes, flukes and protozoa. Flubendazole is active through adsorption into the fish skin and gills. The drug does not have to
be eaten to be effective. This makes the drug useful for treating fishes which have quit eating due to irritation from infection.
Effective treatment can be achieved with a dose of 1/2 gram per 5 gallons of treated water. A much higher economical treatment can be achieved by removing half of the water in the treated tank as long as the usual
aeration and mixing can be maintained.
First things fi rst, the tank water should be changed. It is not necessary to clean the tank, just change the water, all of it. After treatment, change it again. The bodies of the dead animals need to be removed. Also, it is best to
have live wiggling or jumping food in front of the patients as they recover so have live baby brine shrimp or worms ready for the treated fishes.
Add 1/4 teaspoon of the medication for each 5 gallons of tank water. It may fl oat for a while, but it needs to be mixed into the tank water, swirl it in to dissolve. Hydra, Ick and Velvet take three days to remove. Heximeta
may take three doses to remove completely over five to seven days to complete. Three days after the first treatment change the water again. Add another dose of 1/4 teaspoon/5 gal. to the fresh water. Change the water
a second time after 5 to 7 days.
This should take care of everything. A third dose after three or four weeks will insure the treatment, but usually isnʼt necessary unless symptoms reappear.

[MGKelly]

i just realized that we're using two different measurements - teaspoons and grams.
So one teaspoon = 4.2 grams,
1/4 gram per 5 gallons or 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons.

Thanks for the help, you guys either give me the answer or help me work through.

Joe



Thanks Guys, I bought the 10% flubendazole online and below are the recommended doses.
The reason i asked was that these are much higher doses than i've seem recommended elsewhere.
This is just a copy and past from the website. thanks, Joe

Flubendazole is useful for controlling intestinal parasites. These parasites include most of the nematodes, flukes and protozoa. Flubendazole is active through adsorption into the fish skin and gills. The drug does not have to
be eaten to be effective. This makes the drug useful for treating fishes which have quit eating due to irritation from infection.
Effective treatment can be achieved with a dose of 1/2 gram per 5 gallons of treated water. A much higher economical treatment can be achieved by removing half of the water in the treated tank as long as the usual
aeration and mixing can be maintained.
First things fi rst, the tank water should be changed. It is not necessary to clean the tank, just change the water, all of it. After treatment, change it again. The bodies of the dead animals need to be removed. Also, it is best to
have live wiggling or jumping food in front of the patients as they recover so have live baby brine shrimp or worms ready for the treated fishes.
Add 1/4 teaspoon of the medication for each 5 gallons of tank water. It may fl oat for a while, but it needs to be mixed into the tank water, swirl it in to dissolve. Hydra, Ick and Velvet take three days to remove. Heximeta
may take three doses to remove completely over five to seven days to complete. Three days after the first treatment change the water again. Add another dose of 1/4 teaspoon/5 gal. to the fresh water. Change the water
a second time after 5 to 7 days.
This should take care of everything. A third dose after three or four weeks will insure the treatment, but usually isnʼt necessary unless symptoms reappear.

[kaceyo]

Hey Joe,
can you post a link to the place you're buying the flubendazole? Or just the name would do. I've been looking for a place to buy it at a reasonable price for a while now.
Thanks,

[MGKelly]

PM sent


Hey Joe,
can you post a link to the place you're buying the flubendazole? Or just the name would do. I've been looking for a place to buy it at a reasonable price for a while now.
Thanks,

[seanyuki]

A link will be nice as Flubendazole is hard to find in the States/Canada.:)

[Jaws]

Hi,
If the feces are white it could be hex (spironucleus) and Metro works best if it is.
Is it white and slimy? Fish not eating?

Where can I buy Metro?

[danjadragonfly]

I just bought it from UK called WORMER PLus and I got it from discus south.
just google it out. It needed a little time for delivery after the payment was through per paypal.
but I think 3 weeks for the whole transaction and for something coming from UK is still pretty good and was absolutely no problem at all to get it.

[piannino]

Sigh i got head standing after this med :(

[kaceyo]

Sigh i got head standing after this med :(
How did you use it and what are your water parameters?

[pcsb23]

In addition to what Kacey asked I'd like to know about your tank and it's maintenance too.

[Vern Archer]

Just to be clear Discus Plus contains Flubenol which has been used for deworming for many years totally different drug other than sounding somewhat the same I think here lies the confusion. Fish Health talks to flubenol and treatment and people are assuming its flubendazol which is not available in North America.
v


I just bought it from UK called WORMER PLus and I got it from discus south.
just google it out. It needed a little time for delivery after the payment was through per paypal.
but I think 3 weeks for the whole transaction and for something coming from UK is still pretty good and was absolutely no problem at all to get it.

[kaceyo]

Just to be clear Discus Plus contains Flubenol which has been used for deworming for many years totally different drug other than sounding somewhat the same I think here lies the confusion. Fish Health talks to flubenol and treatment and people are assuming its flubendazol which is not available in North America.
v

Actually, Flubenol is a brand of flubendazol. The confusion your speaking of may be between flubendazol and fenbendazol, both worm meds and they do sound alike but are very different in practice.

[jpdevol]

I just want to make a couple points regarding flubenadazole and its growing successful use.

The post below, made in August 2010, quotes what is now outdated information regarding dosage and was actually written by a Dr. in Missouri that can supply 10% Flubendazole for aquarium use. That article was written first for 5% Flu powder and we have since learned that even that dosage was twice the required amount. All the other info. in that article (except dosage) is still pertinent and for that reason is still on the seller's website. The current recommended dosage for 10% powder is
1/8Tsp (US) per 10gal.

I frequently come to SD, not only because I have raised Discus in the past and will in the future, but my body of knowledge for Angelfish (and fishkeeping generally) is enhanced by the knowledge shared on this forum. Perhaps the knowledge can flow both ways.

Many breeders of Angelfish have increasingly used Flubenadazole with good success when treating for internal and external parasite including flukes, tapeworms, etc. with few adverse effects. The most common adverse effect is shedding of slime coat caused by overdose and/or insufficient mixing into solution with tank water. To my knowledge no head or tail standing has been reported in Angelfish. The drug also has benefits in that it does not harm the biological filter.

I have used on breeding Angels with no adverse effect upon spawning, in fact spawning generally increases. I regularly use as a preventative on nickel to quarter size juvenile Angels to assure they are "clean" prior to sale, with excellent results.


I have found a few important keys to safely and effectively administer Flubendazole:

1) mix 4 parts powder with 1 part Vodka or Scotch (I'm serious) and perhaps a ml (or two) of tank water to make a slurry. The spirits act as a solvent and will greatly enhance the drug's ability to go into solution with the tank water;

2) add the slurry very gradually to the tank water, perhaps 1/2ml at a time. What you're looking for is to gradually create the resultant "fog" in the tank. Adding rapidly, or when not mixed well, is when burns occur and the slime coat sheds - especially when a curious fish swims into a heavy dose. The initial fog created once the full dose is in will dissipate over several hours - at 12 hours the water is only slightly hazy; &

3) The treatment only needs to be administered for 72hrs.. Then a water change should be done and 48hrs observation. If heavy fluke infestation or hexamita, additional treatments may be required. If caught early, most parasites are cleared after 72hrs with tapeworms and some others obviously expelled after 24 hrs.

Note: Flubendazole is absorbed into the tissues, so when properly put into solution (as noted in 1 and 2) it can be more effective without ill effects. Please let me know if the above helps to successfully treat our treasured Discus


Thanks Guys, I bought the 10% flubendazole online and below are the recommended doses.
The reason i asked was that these are much higher doses than i've seem recommended elsewhere.
This is just a copy and past from the website. thanks, Joe

Flubendazole is useful for controlling intestinal parasites. These parasites include most of the nematodes, flukes and protozoa. Flubendazole is active through adsorption into the fish skin and gills. The drug does not have to
be eaten to be effective. This makes the drug useful for treating fishes which have quit eating due to irritation from infection.
Effective treatment can be achieved with a dose of 1/2 gram per 5 gallons of treated water. A much higher economical treatment can be achieved by removing half of the water in the treated tank as long as the usual
aeration and mixing can be maintained.
First things fi rst, the tank water should be changed. It is not necessary to clean the tank, just change the water, all of it. After treatment, change it again. The bodies of the dead animals need to be removed. Also, it is best to
have live wiggling or jumping food in front of the patients as they recover so have live baby brine shrimp or worms ready for the treated fishes.
Add 1/4 teaspoon of the medication for each 5 gallons of tank water. It may fl oat for a while, but it needs to be mixed into the tank water, swirl it in to dissolve. Hydra, Ick and Velvet take three days to remove. Heximeta
may take three doses to remove completely over five to seven days to complete. Three days after the first treatment change the water again. Add another dose of 1/4 teaspoon/5 gal. to the fresh water. Change the water
a second time after 5 to 7 days.
This should take care of everything. A third dose after three or four weeks will insure the treatment, but usually isnʼt necessary unless symptoms reappear.

[RWD HERO]

Where can I get this in the US? Did a quick google search to no avail.

[dalejordan]

http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/

[yim11]

I just want to make a couple points regarding flubenadazole and its growing successful use.

The post below, made in August 2010, quotes what is now outdated information regarding dosage and was actually written by a Dr. in Missouri that can supply 10% Flubendazole for aquarium use. That article was written first for 5% Flu powder and we have since learned that even that dosage was twice the required amount. All the other info. in that article (except dosage) is still pertinent and for that reason is still on the seller's website. The current recommended dosage for 10% powder is
1/8Tsp (US) per 10gal.

I frequently come to SD, not only because I have raised Discus in the past and will in the future, but my body of knowledge for Angelfish (and fishkeeping generally) is enhanced by the knowledge shared on this forum. Perhaps the knowledge can flow both ways.

Many breeders of Angelfish have increasingly used Flubenadazole with good success when treating for internal and external parasite including flukes, tapeworms, etc. with few adverse effects. The most common adverse effect is shedding of slime coat caused by overdose and/or insufficient mixing into solution with tank water. To my knowledge no head or tail standing has been reported in Angelfish. The drug also has benefits in that it does not harm the biological filter.

I have used on breeding Angels with no adverse effect upon spawning, in fact spawning generally increases. I regularly use as a preventative on nickel to quarter size juvenile Angels to assure they are "clean" prior to sale, with excellent results.


I have found a few important keys to safely and effectively administer Flubendazole:

1) mix 4 parts powder with 1 part Vodka or Scotch (I'm serious) and perhaps a ml (or two) of tank water to make a slurry. The spirits act as a solvent and will greatly enhance the drug's ability to go into solution with the tank water;

2) add the slurry very gradually to the tank water, perhaps 1/2ml at a time. What you're looking for is to gradually create the resultant "fog" in the tank. Adding rapidly, or when not mixed well, is when burns occur and the slime coat sheds - especially when a curious fish swims into a heavy dose. The initial fog created once the full dose is in will dissipate over several hours - at 12 hours the water is only slightly hazy; &

3) The treatment only needs to be administered for 72hrs.. Then a water change should be done and 48hrs observation. If heavy fluke infestation or hexamita, additional treatments may be required. If caught early, most parasites are cleared after 72hrs with tapeworms and some others obviously expelled after 24 hrs.

Note: Flubendazole is absorbed into the tissues, so when properly put into solution (as noted in 1 and 2) it can be more effective without ill effects. Please let me know if the above helps to successfully treat our treasured Discus

Thank you for this very informative post!
-jim

[jpdevol]

UK/Europe Source for 5% Flubendazole http://wormerplus.co.uk/retail_shop/index.php?categoryID=2

[Jennie]

hmm.. not sure what happened or what went wrong in my deworming process..I dose my tank and all fish react fine except one who was very healthy active and eating..next day appears with very dark bars..I leave the med in water for 48 hours like directions say and do 95% wc after 48 hours.. discius remain dark barred and don't eat. couple days later, dead???:(

[kaceyo]

Sorry to hear that Jennie,
If only one discus reacted that way I'd say it had what amounts to an alergy to the med. There are always some bad reactions to any med by a small percent of those treated.
Are there any other reasons you can think of for this to have happened?

[Jennie]

I first soak food in it and not all fish eat, so I dosed water instead, that is when fish turned dark. of 18 fish only this one in tank got sick in less than day

[inkmaker]

Hi Group,
I just want to say that a new article on Flubendazole is over due. I promise one this summer. The Killifish people want that up date as well.

Keep them swimming.

Charles Harrison

[jackyb]

Hello,


I believe one of my fishes has c worms in can see a red paintbrush like coming outta anus and is swimming frantically and has stopped eating. i bought safe guard that is all i have got and mixed it into water, no ill effects on fish so far..

i am aware of the fact that i should mix the meds with food but cant get it eat no matter what i offer. is there anyway to force medication down the throat, maybe with eye drop bottle?

thanks in advance:)

[ilaizm]

Very interesting thread! Pity I only came across it after one of my discus is head standing after a week from using flubendazole based medication. One thing which this thread does not mention is what to do in the case where you use a flubendazole based medication and get a head stander!

[bach]

Dear Martin, very sad to hear your story. Thanks a lot for your sharing your experience. Regards.

I think a lot of you will find this very interesting.

As you know, us Brits are not as fortunate as yourselves in having such a wide range of meds over the counter and in most cases have to rely on vetinarian intervention.

Anyway, the week before Xmas, i succesfully diagnosed Roundworms in one of my 6 Discus..varying strains..had them for between 10 months and 2 years.

Off i popped to the vet...prescribed Panacur Liquid 10% strength. I actually queried it with the vet at the time as i was looking for Panacur granules but he said that they only had liquid and he had checked his reference books and it was ok to use.

Fair enough i thought...back home dosed at 1ml per 50l of water..to be repeated in one month. First day, i was delighted..pretty good worm clearout that i hoovered up...fish looked better coloured and were like gannets eating their food!

Day three....All fish develop a milky white substance over their bodies and eyes..all crowded together in a corner.
Immediate 90% water change followed by adding both activated carbon and 2 Polyfilters.

Day 4...tail standing starts...conduct regular daily water changes with re-mineralised RO of 30%..no change..have to euthanise my smallest Discus as it begins thrashing wildly in the tank and damages itself.

Day 5...Boxing day for God's sake!! (day after Xmas), turn tank lights on...utter carnage...22 dead Cardinal Tetras, 11 dead Hatchet fish, 1 dead Discus. Remaining 4 Discus are either tail standing, laying completely flat on the substrate or completely flat on the surface.

Anyway...to cut an already long story short, as of today, i have lost 6 adult Discus, 40 Cardinal tetras and 14 Hatchet fish..no losses for the last 2 weeks thank god!!

As you might imagine..i have had several detailed and meaty discussions with my vet, Professional Discus breeders in the UK and a wholemultitude of Discus fanciers.

The end result is that nobody in the UK has heard of any side affects associated with Panacur liquid...the two leading fish vetinarians in the UK were spoken to by my vet and neither could confirm any side affects nor questioned the dosage/application or prescription. Basically my vet was NOT liable.

The only person (who i spoke to) world wide who had any sort of experience with Panacur liquid were Ron and Robyn Futtrell. I discussed the case in some detail with Robyn who had only experienced a case whereby the med was added to food and the fish obviously died.

I post this now as a warning to anybody administering Panacur liquid Fenbendazole 10% at a dosage of 1ml per 50l of water.....not enough is known about it's use in fish..you could end up with Discus Armageddon like me!!

Anyway...as you can imagine, i had a pretty horrific Xmas and New Year and am now busy preparing my tank for another 8 Discus that i hope to purchase in the next couple of months.

Hope you found the above info interesting and perhaps useful as well.

Thanks and best regards,

Martin[/QUOTE]

[fisher]

sorry for my bad english ....... i am new member .... keeping discus fish for 14 years ... I've used flubendazole for many years with alot of success and some Failure but in the end i arrived to ideal treatment with no side effect as Follows 1- dosage is 2mg/liter flubendazole dissolved in aceton 2- the tank must be established and contain an educated number of beneficial bacteria 3- tank not crowded 4- good filter preferd spong filter and strong air stone in the tank and ph around 6 with a high quality water 5- most important things is not over feeding ..... prefered reduce food Quantity and feeding number ................................our target is reduce Harmful bacteria in tank for protect fish swim blooder from ifected . if fish infected and lay on the bottom of the tank it easly recover with 3 golden rols 1- transfer the fish to another established tank with low water levle no haighr then fish hight " in case headstanding " 2- add 3% salt and 15 g apsom salt with 34 c 3- stop feeding . fish will recover in 3 to 4 days .
best Regards

[fisher]

Ideal;)

[DiscusDrew]

So its been a while since Ive given my two cents in the disease section but this is an issue still active today and with little notation of side effect even though I still believe there to be an underlying issue that we are not seeing... Here is my reasoning... And if you see a pattern PLEASE feel free to pop it out. And please, try to speak from experience on this issue as it is a serious one as our quantity and availability of GOOD medications seems to diminish rapidly in the states.

Inkmker 10% flubendazole. Controlled (as much as possible in aquaria with seperate systems) experiment done on 4 tanks of adult breeding fish, approximately 30 breeders in total.

DOSE USED ON EACH TANK: 3 days on with 50% water changes each day replacing what was lost to water change, then 4 days large water changes in good clean water. This process repeated 3 times for a total of 21 day treatment. Dosed slightly under 1/4 tsp per 20 gallons. I mix the Flub with about 1/4 by volume alcohol then SLOWLY release it into the water column.

TANK 1: 45 TDS Reconstituted RO, tank Ph 7.8, temp 82.... Three weeks of successful treatment, no tail standing, even spawning occured on multiple occassions during treatment. Perfect treatment. By scope clean after treatment, and mostly preventative for this tank, all fish were eating, newer batch of fish, no adverse reactions. Med was basically used to clean them out before breeding.

TANK 2: 45 TDS Reconstituted RO, tank Ph 7.8, temp 82.... TWO weeks of successful treatment, after the first dose all is normal, several fish that I knew to have pathogen issues begin to recover very quickly. SECOND DOSE, fish make it through the dosing just fine.... then after the first 100% change to put them back into RO water the next morning our tail standing begins to show... Of 8 adults in this tank, 2 are effected and they seem the healthier of the original fish, not the ones more effected by pathogens. Fish are lazy, trying hard, and as Ive seen this side effect before I have a good idea of how to pull the fish through the treatment, what I do is put them in clean water, and use SALT, seems to speeden the recovery and Ive had several cases where the fish were back up and swimming within about a week and a half.

TANK 3: 155 TDS Aged Tap, Ph 8.2, temp 82.... NO SIDE EFFECTS NOTED THROUGH ENTIRE TREATMENT AND COMPLETELY CLEANED OUT.

TANK 4: 155 TDS Aged Tap, Ph 8.2, temp 82.... NO SIDE EFFECTS NOTED THROUGH ENTIRE TREATMENT AND COMPLETELY CLEANED OUT.

From my experience before this I can leave a few notes on the subject, first, I agree with a post I saw a long time ago on this, it seems to be more prevalent in mid range sized fish, juvies before spawning age but after fry age. Also, Ive NEVER had side effects come up in aged tap water, ONLY in reconstituted RO water. In my experiment, tank 1 and 2 were treated identically and are pooled from the same water source with the same schedules for EVERYTHING... So why a difference there? I couldnt tell you. I like what I have read previously about possible gas in the intestinal lines, and with Epsom Salt showing a difference in recovery from this side effect I truly feel it may be a digestive issue.

But what is the cause? And what is the Cure? Because honestly this medication is well, pretty tough to beet on effectiveness if done correctly. But I have seen these side effects over the years. Oh and one last note, fish that are NOT eating seem to potentially be far more effected by percentage, be it not eating from spawning or whatever the case may be.

All the best and hope this helps continue this discussion....

[100fuegos]

(...)

When you say SALT to recover the affected fish you mean Epson Salt or Table / Marine Salt (NaCl).

My limmited experience with Flubendazole comes from New Wormer Plus, with absolutely no side effect on three to five month old fry affected by capillaria. They pulled through the treatment quie nicely.

Stright tap water filtered through a seven stage HMA filter heated to 28ºC, PH 8.1 and super hard water, TDS over 600 anytime.

[timmy82]

I have just had my best Penang start head standing I haven't used Flubendazole on any of my Discus, I noticed him getting a bit funny the a few days before so gave them some good cleans and water changes and still head standing. I use Microbe-lift gram negative gram positive for 24 hrs and thought things may of improved. Still head standing and notice some white poo moved into warmer tank and dosed with Prozi. I do 7 on 7 off with work so I left extra filtration and the water changes turned up with the auto water as the missus isn't right up to speed with the Discus while i'm away. When I get home I will see how he is and maybe run a course of Metro.
I've found Microbe-lift products to be good and straight to the point with what they are and contain. We have problems trying to get the right stuff hear in Australia and finding Microbe-lift has helped especially with the prozi powder, the metro powder and the gram + gram - works a treat.
Any input on the above would be appreciated, I have had someone think a inner ear infection causes the head standing also I just want to get him right and breed from him as he pretty much a AAA Discus till now.

[fisutar]

I have not discus but very many other tropical fish species. I have wormed my fish with Camacell wormer (HS aqua) which have active agents/pill:

12,5 mg diflubentsuroni, 341 mg pyrantelitartraatti, 17,6 mg flubendatzole. One pill to 50 liter water.

I have many catfish and loachess which are scaless ja sensitivy fish. I have also angelfish, gouramies and so on. I have also very many little catfish babies. I have not had any broblems, but....

I had two adult hoplo Cats (Megalechis personata). When Camacell had been in tank few days, my hoplos behaved very abnormal. Male was whitish colour, was very angry and afraid. I swam against tank glassees. I breathed very fast and strong. It try to escape from tank. Balance is also gone, it is up side down or other side. Then fish must swim, it is very had, balance is gone and after that heart beats very fast. Two days later the female do the same. Naturally they have not apetite.

I take they hostipal tank to fresh water and put Sera Baktopur direkt. They was one week very bad condition but they became clear.

All other fish in Camacell -tank was okay. Water was okay. When I put Camacell medicine to tank I saw my hoplo cats to go eat Camacell. Latter I have put dissolve Camacell before I put them tank.

Later I had to worm my fish and same story. But I lost my male hoplo fish. :(

I sweared that I do no worm tank where is my hoplo cats, but I saw camallanus worms in my angelfish tank and I must worm the whole tank. I had also 4 little hoplos also in same tank. I do not dared use Sera Nematol because there is caution "may induce problems with scaless fish". So I must use Camacell two 5 days cure. I live in country where is not levamisole and so on....

I do not overdose, I change water before and after, but now big female is bad condition (balance is gone, it is up side down or other side). One small hoplo to it sometimes and it balance is some times gone.

Now they all is hospital tank and never Camacell or wormer to them.

Is some fish species allergy to flubendazole or they have gene mutation whish cause that that they have enzyme that break down flubendazole? Camacell have also other active agents than flubendazole. It have also about three times more flubendazole than Kusuri wormer plus.

[arman]

hey everybody.
im abit confused about dosage and duration of treatment.
can somebody say the recommended dose of drug/L of water?and ofc the days.
thanks.

[Tankster]

I just want to make a couple points regarding flubenadazole and its growing successful use.

The post below, made in August 2010, quotes what is now outdated information regarding dosage and was actually written by a Dr. in Missouri that can supply 10% Flubendazole for aquarium use. That article was written first for 5% Flu powder and we have since learned that even that dosage was twice the required amount. All the other info. in that article (except dosage) is still pertinent and for that reason is still on the seller's website. The current recommended dosage for 10% powder is
1/8Tsp (US) per 10gal.

I frequently come to SD, not only because I have raised Discus in the past and will in the future, but my body of knowledge for Angelfish (and fishkeeping generally) is enhanced by the knowledge shared on this forum. Perhaps the knowledge can flow both ways.

Many breeders of Angelfish have increasingly used Flubenadazole with good success when treating for internal and external parasite including flukes, tapeworms, etc. with few adverse effects. The most common adverse effect is shedding of slime coat caused by overdose and/or insufficient mixing into solution with tank water. To my knowledge no head or tail standing has been reported in Angelfish. The drug also has benefits in that it does not harm the biological filter.

I have used on breeding Angels with no adverse effect upon spawning, in fact spawning generally increases. I regularly use as a preventative on nickel to quarter size juvenile Angels to assure they are "clean" prior to sale, with excellent results.


I have found a few important keys to safely and effectively administer Flubendazole:

1) mix 4 parts powder with 1 part Vodka or Scotch (I'm serious) and perhaps a ml (or two) of tank water to make a slurry. The spirits act as a solvent and will greatly enhance the drug's ability to go into solution with the tank water;

2) add the slurry very gradually to the tank water, perhaps 1/2ml at a time. What you're looking for is to gradually create the resultant "fog" in the tank. Adding rapidly, or when not mixed well, is when burns occur and the slime coat sheds - especially when a curious fish swims into a heavy dose. The initial fog created once the full dose is in will dissipate over several hours - at 12 hours the water is only slightly hazy; &

3) The treatment only needs to be administered for 72hrs.. Then a water change should be done and 48hrs observation. If heavy fluke infestation or hexamita, additional treatments may be required. If caught early, most parasites are cleared after 72hrs with tapeworms and some others obviously expelled after 24 hrs.

Note: Flubendazole is absorbed into the tissues, so when properly put into solution (as noted in 1 and 2) it can be more effective without ill effects. Please let me know if the above helps to successfully treat our treasured Discus

.

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Glad you dug this up Greg, thanks. I am due a worming/preventive medication treatment. For those wondering where to obtain this drug, I got mine here in the past with good results. http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

[arman]

thanks Dear kraig& Greg.
by theway if there was no Flubendazole available what can i do?
My experience:
albendazole=bad Side effects...Metro=not effective in 3 fish tx series..
...
any idea?

[100fuegos]

Search for kusuri wormer plus. UK based company but they ship worldwide

[brewmaster15]

Honestly, levamisole is readily availible in the USA and is an excellent alternative to Flubendazole with less chance of side effect, IME. If you have access to it in your country, I would try that. Its an excellent broad spectrum dewormer and is available in water soluble forms.

hth,
al

[brewmaster15]

oh and standard disclaimer... mebendazole, albendazole and fenbendazole should never be added to the water directly...It will severely harm your fish and fatalities are common. Flubendazole though related chemically is safer in most cases when added to water.

hth,
al

[ESXiGuy]

I put fenbendozole in the food and ran into this issue here. =(

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?119901-Discus-tail-standing-after-fenbendazole-treatment

[Reillyalfred]

where to get Flubendazole?

[littlebobecki]

Hallo, I have experienced tail standing, lose of equilibrium and death of 6 healthy fish following treatment with flubenzadole....doseage 0.3g per 136 litres.......I live in scotland where the water is quite soft.......the medication I used has calcium carbonate in it as well as flubenzadole....is it possible that if my water was low in minerals cations that the addition of the med may have caused toxic shock by rapidly adding calcium to the water?

[israelillo81]

Guys, very interesting thread. I have read all 110 posts. I have personally dosed Kusuri Wormer plus 4 times in my whole community tank (250 Gallon) always followed the recommended dose. No inmediate side effects on discus and other community fish, including neon tetras. I have had no Discus casualties but now that i recall some events, I have had during treatment weaker and thinner Discus fish that have turned black and have swimm pointing downwards days after the treatment. During those days almos a year ago, I used to use quite often pure RO as water chage, my tank was heavily planted High tech, with CO2 injection and with JBL proflora soil below the river sand, so in reality my TDS was always around 100 ppm and PH values of 6.5.

For what I have read , I see three scenarios causing casualties:
*Overdosing flubendazol
*Giving Febendazol in water column instead that given in food
*Dosing as per vendor recommended but having Low TDS values in water
*Dosing as per recommended but having a very high bio-load (Overstocking), causing bacteria attacks

I have managed to rescue the swimming bladder problem by isolating the fish , having a water height just high enough to allow fish to be upwards (around 6 inches height for an adult Discus), dosing up to two grams of Epsom salts per liter of water, daily water change and replenish the same concentration of epsom salt in water. This rescued fish have showed total recovery but just when they are introduced back to the community, that same day or the day after they start showing the same swimming bladder problem.

[BrendanJ23]

Hi, just sharing my recent experience. I dosed Wormer Plus for 24 hours, as per instructions on packet. I waterchanged and my Penang Eruption headstanded. (He is in a QT). Since then I have not redosed, just big daily waterchanges and some rock salt. On day 3 now after treatment he is slowly returning back to normal position. No sign of any swelling or swim bladder issues