tank repair

[tony1313]

Hi all,
I have a 6'x18" tank and the center brace popped. The seams are bad now and it leaks so I am going to rebuild it. I have a similar tank that has a prefab frame with the center brace built in and would like to use the same type of frame. Does anyone know where I can find that type of frame? Also any tips on rebuilding it(other than don't do it) are appreciated.

TIA,
Tony
:-\

[Smokey]

Tip - from my personal expierences: To disassemble a glass tank -

# 1 - Set up a large clutter-free work area.
# 2 - Remove frame material.
# 3 - Remove internal, surface silicone; using a retracting razor blade type knife.

# 4 - Start with the front sheet of glass; SLOWLY AND CARFULLY - razor cut the silicone. Top to bottom. Start with then ends first. As you " cut " the silicone, use tiiny wood wedges [ tooth pics work fine ] to maintane the small gap opening. This allows for the razor blade to cut the silicone with out becoming " STUCK " between the glass edges.

# 5 - ONCE the front sheet of glass has had it's end vertical silicone " CUT "; and the toothpics have seperated the glass edges; it is time to cut the long botton silicone bond.

# 6 - This is where you have to be careful and not apply undo " PRESSURE " to the large front sheet of glass, as you slowly and methodicly slice the lower HORIZONTAL silicone ... AND " TILT " the top of the glass out-ward. AT THIS STAGE A SECOND PAIR OF HANDS IS A BENIFIT !

# 7 - Tilt the front sheet of glass - out-wards , SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY, cutting and allowing the bottom silicone to seperate from the glass.

# 8 - Remove the front sheet of glass and set aside. Store the glass sheet on cardboard, or other "soft surface". DO NOT LAY FLAT ! Lean the glass sheet up against a wall.

# 9 - Repeat method - BACK SHEET OF GLASS, next. Cut silicone, seperate, and store with front sheet of glass.

# 10 - Remove end pieces of glass. Store with other glass.

NOW THE WORK BEGINS ... starting with the bottom sheet of glass; which should be laying on your work bench surface:

# 11 - Using a razor blade type knife, remove all. VERY IMPORTANT ---- ALL OLD SILICONE, From the glass edges and surfaces.

# 12 - Wipe all glass edges and surfaces clean with " ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL 99% ". I. A. evaporates, leaving no reidues.

NO SMOKING - VENTILLATE ROOM !

Good luck Tony. Patience is the word here.

More questions ?? Please ask or e-mail me.

Smokey

[tony1313]

Smokey,
Great instructions! It sounds like I have my work cut out for me on this one. The tank currently has trim and a glass center brace(that popped) not like the newer aquariums with the center brace molded into a frame. Is their any place that sells the newer type frames? If not will I be able to reuse the old trim and glass brace? I would like to find this out before I get started just in case I need to order it. Once I get it torn down and cleaned up I'm sure I will have lots more questions on the assembly of it. It kinda looks like it may be a little while before I get started though(my wife tells me rebuilding the tank is not at the top of my list of priorities! :()

Thanks again for all the info,
Tony

[Paulio]

Smokey,

Awesome instructions!

Al,

This ones a keeper for the DIY Archive.

Paul

[Smokey]

Hahaha. Remeber - that is only half the job.

Now you have to put it all back together.

MPE - a leaker can be repaired.
To build a new tank takes 1/2 the time !!!

Something to think about.

Smokey

[tony1313]

Hey Smokey,
I got your e-mail (thanks for the advise on finding a frame). I contacted the tank manufacture and they do sell frames to the public but will only ship as large as 55gal frame :( so as you said I am ordering them through one of my lfs. If all goes well I will clear out a work area and start the disassembly process this weekend. BTW putting it back together will be the fun part, tearing it down and cleaning it up will be the tough part! I will post updates.

Tony

[tony1313]

Hey Smokey,
I finally got the frame and every thing is ready to reassemble. What kind of pointers can you give me? Should the tank plates be siliconed to frame as well as each other? What is the best sequence for assembly? Those 6' plates are heavy as hell! BTW I learned a lesson separating the plates (never use a utility knife the blades are to thick), I got it stuck and chipped the glass removing it. That was the end plate 17"x24"x1/2"(replace cost $75 US). I'm going to take my chances with the chipped plate!

TIA
Tony

[Smokey]

Tony; Good to hear you dis-assembled the tank with out any major incedient.

Reguarding the "CHIPPED" end platd. When re-assembling the tank, put the "chip" to the outside, and to the top. AND fill with silicone.

If it is not a crack - there will not be a problem, with leakage or strenght.

Is all the glass completely clean ------- of "ALL" "OLD" "SILICONE" ??

Smokey
ps- I will post how to reassemble the tank.

[tony1313]

Yeah the glass is squeeky clean(all silicone completely removed). The chip is 1/3 of the glass thickness about 1/2 way down.

TIA
Tony

[Smokey]

11:46 AM 9/11/03

Tip - from my personal experiences: To re-assemble a glass tank. -

"VERY IMPORTANT' - SILICONE VAPORS CAUSES RESPIRATORY IRRITATIION. USE ADEQUATE VENTILATION TO KEEP THE WORKPLACE AIRBORNE CONCENTRATIONS TO A MINIMUM. EXTREMELLY IMPORTANT ---- SILICONE RELEASES ACETIC ACID DURING APPLICATIONS AND CURING. BE VERY CAREFUL, PLEASE.

# 1 - Set up a clutter - free work area. I always like to use an old carpet, covered with newspaper; to work on!

NOTE ****, A simply way would be to use the bottom plastic trim as the framing jig. Using the bottom plastic trim as a lay-up jig will ensure everything will fit together --- ...... !!! Afterall, nothing worse than " NOT " having the trim fit the glass tank. Afterwards.

# 2 - " DO NOT SILICONE THE TRIM TO THE GLASS PLATES" !!!
The trim will / should be removed after everything has cured - to apply silicone to the outside of the bottom/side glass sheets joints . An extra bit of insurance - to strengthen all external glass joints.

# 3- I would suggest you dry fit everything together, "FIRST". With a pair of extra hands; "SLOWLY REASSEMBLE THE SHEETS TOGETHER; TO GET A FEEL OF THE GLASS, AND HOW THEY FIT !!!" .. AND the tolerances - [gaps between the glass edges] necessary for the glass to fit the plastic frame.

NEVER LET GLASS TOUCH GLASS ----

# 4 - Tools and equipment to have on hand:

USE 100% SILICONE RUBBER. Clear or black.
A number of excellant brands are available. I would suggest you get two or three - 300 mL. tubes.

A good caulking gun. Very important.

A roll of duct tape. The duct tape will hold everything in position while the silicone is curing.

A carpenters framing square, two would be better; these will assure everything is square and perpendicular. Use the squares a lot !

A bottle of ISOPROPLY ALCOHOL 99%. To clean the glass edges before applying the silicone. Even the oils from one's hands could cause the silicone " NOT TO BOND".

Lots of disposiable cloth rags. Silicone seems to get on ones hands, easily !! Then onto everything else. Silicone finger prints are a tell-tail story of a messy operator. [ and a pain to clean up - later].

# 5 - NOW, if you are feeling " COMFORTABLE" with the glass and how it will all fit together we can proceed with the actual "GLUEING" ....

# 6 - fIRST - YOU CAN START WITH THE BACK SHEET OF GLASS. Place into the plastic frame, and position it.

# 7 - Second - Place an end piece of glass into the frame; position it ..... this is a dry fit ...If you a happy with the way it fits AND the tolerances [gap] are correct ... Remove the end glass - clean all surfaces with Isopropyl Alcohol 99%.

- Apply a thick bead of silicone along the end edge of the "BACK SHEET OF GLASS". [ see # 6 ].

Slowly and carefully insert the end sheet into the frame and match it to the back sheet.

" IMPORTANT" - when inserting the end sheet of glass -- "" LEAN "" the glass away fron the back piece; to avoid distrubring the silicone,[on the edge of the back sheet]. When the glass is all the way into the frame --- lean the glass sheet into the correct vertical position. This is always a bit messy; so be carfull.

This is were the squares are needed ... to ensure that every thing is "SQUARE'!!!!

Make sure there is sufficeint silicone between the two pieces of glass to provide a good strong bond.

Use a couple lengths of duct tape to hold the two pieces of glass together,

# 8 - Spread smooth and remove any excess silicone. Use one of your fingers for this operation. The first bead of silicone is to bond the glass together ... excess silicone should be removed before it has totally cured. [ more on this later].

# 9 - Let the back and side sheet silicone cure. Be sure the sheets have not moved or shifted. You may want to set up some external supports to ensure nothing can shift.

Patience now. Let the silicone completely cure. Do a bit of clean up - remove excess silicone, etc. MAKE sure the two sheets are completely square to each other and to the plastic frame moulding.

I feel it is necessary to sit back and let the silicone cure before proceeding to the next sheet of glass. This will ensure nothing will move and everything is in the correct position.

# 10 - The next sheet of glass to be installed -- is the " BOTTOM SHEET" . Again - do a dry fit. This allows you to become comfortable with the operation.

# 11 - Clean the edges of the bottom glass sheet with the alcohol. Apply a thick bead of silicone along the two edges, of the bottom sheet, that will bonding to the back and side pieces of glass.

# 12 - Place the bottom sheet of glass onto the plastic trim and place into the correct position; ensureing there will be a good silicone bond and the tolereances are correct.

SQUARE everything. Remove excess silicone from the joints. Use that finger again!!! Take a few moments to make sure all glass is square and perpendicular.
Remove excess silicone. Only the silicone which is actually bonding the glass together should remain.[ more about this later]. Let the silicone cure.

# 13 - The next sheet of glass to be instsalled is the other end sheet. Do a dry fit, first. o.k..

# 14 - Clean the edges and the surface of the end sheet, where the silicone will be bonding.. Apply a thick bead of silicone along the edges of the back sheet and the bottom sheet edge. Instal the end sheet of glass. Use the duct tape to hold in position. MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS SQUARE ! Remove all excess silicone. Your finger should be getting good at this by now.

Set back and review everything - clean up any excess silicone. Make sure all the glass is square and perpendicular to each other. Let the silicone cure.

# 15 - The front sheet is the next and last piece of glass to be installed. Clean all edges and surfaces with the alcohol. Apply a thick bead of silicone to the 3 glass sheet edges - left end edge, bottom sheet edge, right end edge.

# 16 - Instal the front sheet of glass. Square and use the duct tape to hold it in poistion. Remove excess silicone. [There is a very important reason for this].

# 17 - Stand back and review the whole operation. Is every thing perfectly square. Is everything correct.

Congradulations. ALL FIVE SHEETS OF GLASS SHOULD BE IN POSITION AND SQUARE. RIGHT?

Half the work is done. Take a breather and let the silicone cure.

# 18 - VERY IMPORTANT - NOW THE TANK HAS TO BE SEALED. The edge silicone bonds the glass together. Not necessarially water tight. SEALING THE TANK, WITH A GOOD BEAD OF SILICONE, WILL PREVENT ANY FUTURE "DRIP LEAKS".

# 19 - Wipe all surfaces clean. Yes, use the alcohol again. It is best to now run a thick bead of silicone on and over every joint. This bead of silicone should be about 1/4 inch thick. [ through the center.]. This bead of silicone will add holding strength "AND " seal the tank.

I SUGGEST DOING THE VERTICAL EDGES FIRST. AND THE BOTTOM SHEET JOINTS LAST.

Again the finger has to be used - to ensure a good air bubble free bond. And make the siliconed joints "LOOK PROFESSIONAL". After you have applied the inside silicone seal, sit back and take a breather.

"VERY IMPORTANT' - SILICONE VAPORS CAUSES RESPIRATORY IRRITATIION. USE ADEQUATE VENTILATION TO KEEP THE WORKPLACE AIRBORNE CONCENTRATIONS TO A MINIMUM. EXTREMELLY IMPORTANT ---- SILICONE RELEASES ACETIC ACID DURING APPLICATIONS AND CURING. BE VERY CAREFUL, PLEASE.

# 20 - Do a dry fit of the top plastic frame. The frame should fit snuggly. If you are happy with the top frame fit, and everything has cured, and everything is square -- APPLY a thin bead of silicone along the top edges of the glass and instal the top frame. Make sure the frame completely fits onto the glass and is all the way on. This bead of silcone must be adequate enough to hold the frame securely, and prevent any water from seeping through. [ water will splash, so seal the trim onto the top edges.].

AFTER EVERYTHING HAS CURED AND IS STABLE; GIVE THE SILICONE TWO THREE DAYS TO COMPLETELY CURE, BEFORE MOVING THE TANK.. ;

>>>>>> IT IS TIME TO INVERT THE TANK AND REMOVE THE BOTTOM PLASTIC FRAME..!!! <<<<<

# 21 - Remove the bottom plasctic frame. BE CAREFUL.

# 22 - ONCE THE BOTTOM FRAME HAS BEEN REMOVED AND YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE EXTERNAL BOTTOM GLASS JOINTS, REMOVE ANY AND ALL EXCESS SILICONE. Clean the surface edges with Alcohol. Alcohol will remove the oils from a persons hands, and provide a sterile surface for the silicone to bond with !!!

# 23 - APPLY a thick bead of silicone on all the glass joints; similar to the inside joints. Let cure. This bead of silicone will add extra strenght and ensure a completely water proof seal.

# 24 - With the tank sitting upside down; At this point I suggest you apply a thin layer, OF SILICONE, to ALL THE EXTERNAL JOINT EDGES. This thin silicone bead will fill any small gaps and give a nice finish.

Go over all glass surfaces and remove any silicone and finger prints. Polish all glass surfaces totally clean. Use some of the Isopropyl Alchol - 99%.

# 25 - Install the bottom plastic frame . Same procedure as for the top plastic frame. Make sure the frame is completely on and secure.

Let the tank sit and the silicone cure. the tank is finished.

Smokey

I hope I have completely covered all the procedures; correctly. As always " SAFETY FIRST" Glass is heavy and unforgiving !!!

Read over the post a few times and become familar with all the steps.

Good luck and take care.

[Smokey]

Howdy; Just a follow up.

I did not refere to the centre glass brace in the re-assembly procedure.

I would recomend - that the centre glass brace be reinstalled. If you feel it will be important.

This can be done as the last step.
Lay the tank on it's side; dry fit the glass brace. does it fit easily or is it a tight fit ??

If you feel happy with fit - wipe the glass surfaces clean , yup use the alcohol, that will have silicone applied to.

APPLY a adequate bead of silicon to the glass brace and place into position.

Clean up all excess silicone. Let cure.

Apply a second bead of silicone to all edges of the centre brace.
Let cure. Clean up and remove any excess silicone.

Wait 3 - 4 days more. Silicone needs time to completely cure. Silicone cures from the out-side --- inwards.
Do not rush into refilling the tank with water.

PATIENCE !!!!!
As the last procedure - sit the tank upright and fill with water.

Smokey

[Smokey]

I would like to clarify a few procedures. A reply quote from Tony...
--- How are ya Smokey,
Nice detailed instructions! I have the back plate, side plate and bottom plate in and looking good. They will have to cure 100% and then I will have to remove the 3pc assembly from the frame/jig and set up a temporary jig to install the last side plate and the front plate. Reason being once you get to the 4th and 5th plates their is only enough clearance between the edge of the bottom plate and the frame for the glass and approximately 1/16 of silicone(Not enough room to lay a bead of silicone and push the plate against it. If I attempted to slide the plates in it would scrape off the silicone bead.). Well so far so good. I'm pretty sure the toughest parts of the project are over.

ttyl,
Tony --- .

I totally agree with TONY. I replied, as to my understand, and the reasoning behind such a procedure.

If Tony wishes to post my e-mail; OK.

ANYONE WISHING TO RE-ASSEMBLE A TANK -- BE CAUTIOUS!! THERE ARE PROCEDURES AND THEM THERE ARE METHODS.

For a tank; such as the one Tony is REBUILDING; is not common size glass. AND NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART !!!

Smokey

[tony1313]

Well thanks to all the helpfull info and coaching from Smokey the tank is done. It was a very big job and I would not recommend rebuilding a tank of this size(135gal) unless you have prior experence with tank rebuilding. The type of tank I have(all-glass brand) the frame did not leave any room for error and I would not recommend using the frame as a jig. Build a temporary jig that sets the bottom plate at the exact height location and be sure to keep everything square and parallel. Once I had the tank upside down and the excess silicone carefully removed I was only able to put a small bead of silicone around the bottom plate where it meets the vertical plates(this is all the frame would allow). Once all of the silicone work was done and 100% cured and before I attached the bottom frame I masked off the very bottom edge and sides to give the bottom a coat of paint(I thought this would be an easy way to paint under the 2 cross straps on the frame). Once the paint was dry the masking was removed and the bottom edge cleaned with alcohol then a bead of silicone was applied and the frame put on . I then carefully turned the tank rightside up before the silicon set(I wanted to be sure that the tank was seated properly in the frame and the weight of the tank helped).

A couple of recommendation for anyone rebuilding a tank:

1)become familiar with what the glass and frame design will allow you to get away with.

2)have lots of sharp single edge razor blades at hand(DO NOT USE UTILITY KNIFE BLADES THEY ARE TOO THICK AND YOU WILL GET THEM STUCK WHEN SEPARATING THE GLASS).

3)Patience!!!!!!

4)SAFETY!!!!!!

5)follow Smokey's instructions a close as your tank design will allow!

Now if it holds water I'll be in buisness.....lol........
I am going to give it a couple of weeks to cure before I try putting water in it besides that'll give me time to build the stand!

Thanks again Smokey for all the guidence!
;)
Tony

[Smokey]

Tony -- I , personaly agree with you 100%. This was my first reccomnedation when i started to write the post.

However, I stopped and realized the ''average person'' does not have the skills, time, temperament and space/tools.

Tony ==== You have crossed the boundariers of physical understanding .. and foresight.

I am very appreciative of your hands on expierence .. and practial advise.

To all you other readers -- review the comments posted, here, ... and do not think you can do something for the first time ---successful !!!!

I have so many storey's of persons who deceided it "was - so - easy - to - build - their - own - tanks; I could write a book . Perhaps, somday , I just might..

Smokey
ps .. to be continued...

[Smokey]

Tony -- I , personaly agree with you 100%. This was my first reccomnedation when i started to write the post.

However, I stopped and realized the ''average person'' does not have the skills, time, temperament and space/tools.

Tony ==== You have crossed the boundariers of physical understanding .. and foresight.

I am very appreciative of your hands on expierence .. and practial advise.

To all you other readers -- review the comments posted, here, ... and do not think you can do something for the first time ---successful !!!!

I have so many storey's of persons who deceided it "was - so - easy - to - build - their - own - tanks; I could write a book . Perhaps, somday , I just might..

Smokey
ps .. to be continued...

[daninthesand]

2)have lots of sharp single edge razor blades at hand(DO NOT USE UTILITY KNIFE BLADES THEY ARE TOO THICK AND YOU WILL GET THEM STUCK WHEN SEPARATING THE GLASS).


A trick I have found that works wonders is to use a belt sander and file down the thickness of the utility blade to less than half its normal thickness. This has been a god send for taking apart tanks. You still can use the normal blade handle for safety and leverage, and the thin kerf allows you to get into the tightest places. I do this with the OLFA type blades using a new blade so that I have lots of blade length to work with. IE I make the whole blade thinner.

Be carefull when using the belt sander. Put a new blade in the handle and extend it so that its all the way out, but still secure. I find it easiest to clamp the belt sander in a vice so I have two hands to steady the blade. Place the flat side of the blade (not the back or the sharp edge!)against the running sander and slowly remove material, alternating sides as you go. be careful not to burn the blade. If you see the blade turn blue you've ruined it. It will no longer hold a sharp edge.

I tend to really sand the tip a lot on purpose so that I end up with a rounded blade tip, kinda spoonshaped, with the whole rounded edge sharpened. This lets me get into any nooks and cranies without ruining the sharpness so easily. Resharpen the blade as it gets dull and you'll use this for a long time.

Another trick I came up with is to use stainless steel fishing wire, or some other strong thin wire and use that to seperate the silicon between glass joints. Just slide it down one edge and run it through using a sawing motion. This can be extreemly quick if you are lucky enough to have glass that is far enough apart for the wire to fit between.

HTH

Daniel

[Smokey]

Howdey Dan; great advice. Keep the blade sharp and thin ... after - all you are skinning a tank.

Patience and a bit of skill amd strong fingers help.

Ahhh, where would us men be without tools.

[daninthesand]

Smokey.

I've repaired and built quite a few tanks, and every time I do it, I say never again! But I keep coming back to it despite the fact I know I can buy a new tnak for quite cheap.....

yes, tools. gotta love em, especially if you find a unique way to use 'em.

Daniel

[Smokey]

Dan, here is one I foung useful - a DENTAL PIC !!! For picking out the silicone of those leakers.

another very useful tool -- a 28 oz. hammer. For when nothing goes according to plan ... lol. well just twice. Really. so I have problems with my anger managment !! --- Well , thats what my phsyc doc suggested.

Smokey
But it felt soooo good.

[tony1313]

Smokey,
I've got a 48oz-er just waitin for this tank to leak! Along with a few choice words.

Dan,
"Sanding the blades" great idea. Where were you when I separated the glass???? lol................

Tony

[daninthesand]

Hi Tony.

Sorry I never read this post before you had done the job. :(
But next time you'll know what to do.

Daniel

[Smokey]

Food for thought - I am in the process of cutting glass, and then building 4 - 6 ... 160 liter tanks.

Thing is , I am working outside, no room in my little cabin; AND yesterday it started to snow. 24 hours later, it is still snowing ... and getting cooler.

The mountain sides have accumulated about 3 inches of snow so far. About 2 " on top of my glass cutting table ... AND one of the sheets of 7 ml. glass, 84 inches by 87 inches, is burired under a sheet of ice and snow.

Only in Canada, eh !!

Smokey

[limige]

umm smokey, it's september, not november, whats up with your weather???????

you must live waaaaayyyyyyy up there!

good luck tony, hope she holds....

smokey, your a great help to people on this board! we appreciate it!

[Smokey]

limige;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

if you is so impressed, why do you not come on down and help, me shovel out everything..... the glass is under 2 inches of fresh wet snow. MY van is snowed in .. the plow has not come by to open up the road.... And I am down to my last beer.....
Please send help .

Not a dog; but a pizza!!!
OH yes, I forgot - some blood worms.

Only in the month of september .. yup. fall has arrived. Tons of snow.

Smokey

ps -- I need a show shovel!

[limige]

lol, were'nt you just having problems with forest fires ??? ??? ???

[tony1313]

Smokey,
Last beer? It sounds like it's time to break out the sled! Call me crazy but I wish we had snow & cold(I'd break out the sled and the ice fishing gear).
;D
Tony

[Smokey]

Yes, we were just having a big a** Bb'q. That kinda got outa hand.
Well, thats our story and we are sticking to it.

Actually, the fire started in an un-attended camp fire.
Tourist's !!!!!! ha

For the most part, the fires are out. Still some underground smouldering, lots of old abandoned coal mine shafts that caught fire. The resource personal pumped in a fire retardant, to quell them, though.

I actually got out my cross - country skies, and was having a good time.

Today, the snow is on the mountains ... very pretty, really.

The roads are all open and most of the snow has melted away.

Hunting season, bird season and fishing is now open. Some very big animals are being sighted.

Tony, your time will come. Mi. has incrediable winters, I hear.

Ice fishing up here is incrediable ... some very deep lakes .. Crowsnest Lake ... over 700 feet deep! All mountain lakes, stocked with big lunker rainbow trout, from the government hatchery. The ones too old to be breeders, anymore.

However ... until we get at least 4 feet of snow ... the sleds stay put.