Can you recommand a quiet water pump

I'm thinking of connecting 15 aquariums (700 gal capcity)together with a central 45 gal filter with 8 compartments in 2 rows. Which multi-tank water pump is the best and most quiet and reliable available in the market.
Thanks
Angel

[Dave C]

I don't recommend that. You'd be much better off filtering smaller groups of tanks rather then all 15 in one filter.

The main reason is that your sump won't be large enough to handle 700g of tanks. The rule of thumb with overflowing tanks into a central filter is to expect a 1" drop in water level when the power to the pump is shut off. So that means each tank will drain 1" once water stops flowing in, i.e. a power failure or you turn off the pump to do a water change. If your tanks are 18" high, a 1" drop in water level will represent about 39g of water returning to your 45g sump. You will need to operate your sump with more then 6g of water so your sump will overflow when the pump is turned off. I usually operate my sump at about 50-66% capacity so I don't have to worry about evaporation affecting the operation of the pump. Even if you drilled your sump so any excess water could overflow into a drain you'd be in trouble when you turned on the pump as the sump would run dry.

There are other advantages to filtering smaller groups of tanks rather then the whole bunch of them. It allows you to have different parameters, i.e. temperature, pH, salinity etc. for your fish so you can cater your tank water to the age & health of the fish.

Dave

[korbi_doc]

:bounce2: :bounce2: Dave, think perhaps you've answered a ? I've had 'bout wet/dry system. Have one on my 90g. It meas. 24"x12"x14". I've not been sure how high the water level should be after w/c. Usually I try for 'bout 1/3 of its height. Thought 1/2 might be too much, although it's better for evap. The water should only cover some of the bioballs, is that right?? What would be optimum? Am I understanding this correctly?? Tia, Dottie ;D

[Dave C]

It's optimal to have the bioballs above the water level of the sump. But that's not always possible. But what is necessary is that you have enough extra room in the sump to handle the overflow that happens when the pump is stopped. You can tell if you're ok by just unplugging your pump, if the sump overflows you have too much. My sump has a 2.5" ledge in front of the area that the pump is in. The water has to go over this ledge and through a sponge before being pumped out. So the water level in the sump has to be over 2.5" to get to the pump. I run mine at 9" in depth, so about 3" of bioballs are underwater but it's never been a problem as I probably have way more media then I need. But my sump is drilled so any excess will overflow to my drain. So I guess the short answer is to fill your sump as little as possible to keep the media above water, but as high as possible without overflowing it when the power shuts off. An overflow works well to avoid water on the floor but if you have too many gallons attached to your sump it will overflow and then run dry when power returns.

[korbi_doc]

;D ;D Thanx Dave, my sump does not overflow with pump off so I guess there's enough room. There is a ledge also, 'bout 2.5" & the water level is between 7-8" & height is 14". So 'bout 4" of bioballs are under water. So I guess I have been going 'bout 50% & all seems ok. I could drop it a couple "s. ;p;. Dottie 8)

Dave: Thanks. I'm planning to drill an 1.25 overflow pipe to the drain. Do you think it will eliminate the overflow problem? I'm planning to separate them in next summer. This is just the temporary hook up since the store had put away all pond equipment for storage in the winter. I have to wait till next summer. Do you agree that the water has to stay into the sump pump for a few minutes before the nitrobacters can utilize the nitrite and convert into Nitrate. I have a little discusion with the store owner that the conversion factor of Ammonia and Nitrite is directionly proportional to the volume output of the flow. How long does it take the bacteria to convert the bad stuffs in the sump. Too many questions. I just want to get going when hobby had turned into slavery when we found out how much maintenane discus needs.
Angel.

[Dave C]

The problem is the small size of your sump relative to the amount of gallons you want to filter. For example, let's say that your average tank is 50g and is 36x18x18. So a 1" drop in water level is about 2.75g of water returning to your sump. If you filter 15 tanks that means there will be over 41g of water coming back to the sump when the pump shuts off. If you put an overflow on the sump, and operate the sump with 15g of water in it you will overflow 11g of water (15g + 41g - 45g (sump capacity) = 11g). The overflow will keep the water off of your floor but once the power comes back on the pump will start and will pump the 41g back into the tanks, leaving 4g of water in your sump which will not be enough to keep your pump going so it will run dry. And that will be the case no matter how full you operate the sump at since it can only hold 45g and will need 41g to get the tanks going again. It's just too much water for that size of a sump. I wouldnt' do it with anything less then an 80g sump. At least then I could run with 20g in the sump, accomodate the entire 41g return and still have some room.

The water has to stay in the sump only because the pump can't operate with no water. I guess if your sump was shaped like a big funnel and the pump was at the bottom you could have much less water being held. Otherwise you would need at least 5" of water I'd say, which is probably going to be 12g of water. How long it stays in your sump depends on how strong the pump is. If it's pushing out 1000 gph the 12g will be there for less then a minute. But the conversion of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate happens as the water comes into contact with the media, not in the sump. So the time spent in the sump is irrelevant. The time the water is in contact with the media is relevant, the slower the flow, or the larger the media bed, the longer the water will be in contact with the media and the better the conversion will work. Mind you the faster the flow the more often the water will contact the media but as a rule of thumb slower flow is better. (assuming it's fast enough to turn over the contents of the tank in a reasonable fashion, what's reasonable? Once every hour or two is good).

A central filter won't make your maintenance any easier in my opinion. It won't lessen the need for water changes, nor glass cleaning. It will allow you to put larger heaters in the sump rather then in each tank. And if you build the overflow on the sump it will allow you to do water changes by just overflowing tanks, which will overflow the sump, but you'll still have to siphon the tank bottoms and this method will waste water as some water that goes into the tank will leave the sump.

Dave: Thanks for your very informative reply. Based on your explaination. I will divveide them into 3 groups and have a larger sump. Which water pump do you recommand fro 3 /65gl. system. and 5 /35 gal breeding tank syystem.

Angel

[Dave C]

I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting what you're saying. If you filter your tanks in 3 groups then you don't need to have a larger sump. Three 45g sumps would be fine for 3 groups of tanks totalling 700g. Each group of tanks would then be about 240g.

I like Mag Drive pumps. Figure out what flow you want and choose the appropriate sized pump. Check the stats here (http://www.petsolutions.com/Wpumpchart.html) to get gph for the height the pump will have to push the water. I usually use the gph for a 6ft head for my comparisons. A Mag 7 is probably the right model for you.

Dave

Dave:I have various sizes of 25 tanks. I'm planing to divide them up in 3 groups.

2/150 gal show tanks and 3/65gal. for adults and breeders.in the first group.
6 Grow-out tanks 45 gals in another group.from 2"-4"
12/35gal breeding tanks in other group.for breeding and fry up to 2"

ACtually, I'm looking at the EG Danner/Supreme Mag-Drive water pumps. Model 7 which has 675 gal output and able to pump 12' high. for C$104.99. If they are quiet. I'll go for this one. Can you confirm it. Thanks.
Angel.

[Dave C]

Yes, the Mag pumps are pretty quiet. But be aware that the 675gph rating is for 1ft head or less. And while they can pump water 12 feet high, they do so at 375gph. That pump is available for $57 U.S. at Pet Solutions.

While you're breaking your tanks into smaller groups it appears you have more then the 15 tanks / 700g that you initially mentioned. If you're going to include 5 tanks totalling 500g in the first group you'd better make sure you build/buy a very large wet/dry filter. A Mag 7 won't be sufficient for that group.

[RichieE]

I agree with Dave on the Mag Drive pumps. Long life, quiet and reasonablly priced. Rich

Thanks. question for Dave. Is there any advantage ordering from the States compared to Canadian stores. With the exchange rate, additional shiping charge, and customs. Will it work out the same. Will pet solution ship to Canada? Do we have to pay Sales Tax? I can't recall if brinshrimp direct charge me tax or not. I hate paying the GST. It's a big rip off. I always deal with stores with GST and sales tax included.
Angel.

[Dave C]

You said you could get that pump for $105 Cdn vs. $57 from Pet Solutions (I assume you're looking at MOPS, Dan Cole right?) He will get it to you much faster the Pet Solutions so if speed is an issue, go with Dan. I received an order from Pet Solutions last week, it took 6 weeks to get here because they had computer problems. The exchange rate on that order was 41.81% so the $57 pump is now $80.83 Cdn. Shipping will be more coming from the U.S. then from Canada but I doubt it will be $25 more, probably $15 more though. So you're saving $10 by buying from the U.S. and potentially waiting 5 weeks longer. I'd buy from Dan.

p.s. whether stores include P.S.T. & G.S.T. in their price you're still paying it. MOPS has to charge taxes as well but if you're buying from out of province they won't charge P.S.T., you're supposed to voluntarily submit that, ha ha ha. Pet supplies from the U.S. will have P.S.T. & G.S.T. charged by the Post Office or UPS/FedEx but there is no customs/duty on these goods.

That's correct. I was looking at MOPS. and Dan can get it ship under $7.00 the next business day and arrive at my door steps the next day. Cheaper than picking it up myself in the store. I have made my decision on the Mag-drive 7 0r 9.5 and start the first group on the small breeding tanks. I have to visit home depot for lumber for the new rack this weekend. Thanks Dave. You've made my day with your fast informative answers. I'll have more questions later when I start building the rack and conncecting the pipes.
Oh! just one more question before I go away and stop bugging everybody. Is it necessary to use a hydro sponge if I have a central system installed. Since the constant fresh water exchange being taken place in the sump tank . Can I get away without using any air. I'm trying to avoid mould and high humidity. I don't have to use air diffuser for my reef system. Just a costant current flow by the powerhead. Can I adopt the same principle from the salt water tank for discus.
Angel.

[Dave C]

Angel, I see you're babysitting some of JimmyL's fish. What's the point of putting a wet/dry system in for the Discus if you're only looking after these fish for a month? Are you related to JimmyL? Is your middle name JimmyL? Just kidding.

Dave: Good work. In fact, I'm using his computer.we have been friends for over 10 years. I'm an Angel fish breeder. He's in for discus. A group of discus breeders are renovating all their fish rooms with the help of a professional reef tank installer. I have all his fish while his room is being renovating and then it will be my turn after they are all done. We're shifting fish from one to another. I have lots of disagreement the way they are keeping discus eventhough I'm a beginner. They manage to get all their equipment before the store put them away for winter. Actually I was the last one to decide to have it done free of charge by Jimmy's group. I will be keeping some of his fish. He will be keeping some of my Altums trying to breed them. Hahaha Good luck is all I can say.
Angel

I can breed anything you failed. You'll see some babies next year. ;D
Jimmy