Algae at startup?

[rdeis]

I've read that it takes a few months to get nutrient levels stabalized when starting a planted tank, and that during that time algea growth is normal.

That suggests to me that I don't want to panic and do a lot of adding/removing of chemicals to meet the levels in biotypical's algae control post if the green monster starts to appear as I'm getting this tank started.

So the question is:

What tells me that it *is* time to panic, and/or how religeously do I need to watch these chemical levels as things are starting up?

Also: I would expect that as the bioload increases (because the Discus are showing up) the whole balance is shifted again- right? And I'll need to go through a new cycle of learning the correct fertilizer dosages?

[ronrca]

I've read that it takes a few months to get nutrient levels stabalized when starting a planted tank, and that during that time algea growth is normal. Not really a couple of months! you will be fertilizing pretty right off the start. The dosages are not dependant on the bio load of the tank except for nitrate. You need to keep constant watch on your parameters when first determining the correct dosages!

Are you fishless cycling? Are you planting right from the start?

[rdeis]

Fishless-cycle: I've not done that before, but I've been reading about it. There seem to be a number of cycling solutions on the market, and some claim to be especially formulated for blackwater fish.

OTOH, LFS has offered a full return credit on cycle fish if I don't want to keep them, but if I can establish a healthy cycle without torturing some fish that seems like a better option unless it is very difficult.

Plants from the beginning: I'm still researching, so any advice is great. I thought I'd start with a few swords right away, then increase from there as I get smarter. I don't want to make a forest that requires CO2- at least not yet- the plan is for a lot of driftwood/root work with some plants to add character, color, and flitration.

Two shops here in town are big in to plants and discus, so I'm working with them as well as reading up here.

[ronrca]

There seem to be a number of cycling solutions on the market, and some claim to be especially formulated for blackwater fish.
Dont fall for the claims because thats usually all it is, claims! When we are talking about 'bacteria in a bottle', dont bother wasting your money on it! Bacteria requires food and O2! Its quite obvious that in a bottle its quite difficult to do both. If you can get a bottle with the date stamp of only a couple of days, great! How can bacteria have a shelf life of a couple of months when the milk I buy has a shelf life of only a couple of weeks!!!!?? The only product around that seems to work is Bio-spira. The only stuff Id recommend (I have not used it) because its the only stuff that must be refrigerated so that the bacteria food consumption slows down basicly to 0.

Cycling with fish! Well, the draw back is introducing parasites/disease from these 'cycle' fish! Imo, I would not do it! I would if I would not be putting discus in the tank! Fishless is still the more humane method to go.

Starting with plants right from the beginning is a very good idea! As the tank cycles, plants will actually help consume ammonia/nitrites and if you are planting heavily, you may not even have to cycle the tank as there will be no ammonia/nitrite. However, I still would not recommend getting any fish for a month or so until you get your plants growing nicely. Well, you may want to get some algae eating fish like otos and sae's! This way you can concentrate only on the plants (like dosages, lighting, C02, etc) without having to worry about the fish!

[rdeis]

How about light levels? This tank is 30" deep- my plan was to root the swords on a terrace of some sort closer to the surface, (maybe hollow out a place for some peat in a piece of driftwood to plant them in?) so I can get by with a more normal (2w/gal) light level.

Then as the tank matures I can add plants at the lower levels and maybe add light, depending on how they do..

Is it correct to say that insuffucient light and excess light both can cause algea to bloom? So I'll need to have a light setup that I can adjust with different intensity lamps... Just like sports cars, I guess- configurability is everything so you can tune it to your needs...

[ronrca]

Light levels are dependant on the plants you choose. Plants like swords can grow in low light levels but one thing to keep in mind with low light levels is that plants do not grow as quickly either therefore the nutrients have to be figured out correctly as well. While 2WpG is considered sufficient (low lighting level), I would recommend at least 3WpG+! Just my own experience I guess!

Deep tanks require more attention to lighting because you need light that will 'push' down to the bottom. Otherwise some plants will have beautiful tops but nothing on the bottom. Power Compact lighting is good and Metal Halide is even better for deep tanks.


Is it correct to say that insuffucient light and excess light both can cause algea to bloom? Yes and no! Depends on the nutrient levels! From Biotyical post on algae, Nutrient-Light-CO2 must be kept in balance with one another. If not, you get algae!


Then as the tank matures I can add plants at the lower levels and maybe add light, depending on how they do..
Well, let me tell you from experience, thats the hard way to go but sometimes you dont have a choice especially when short on money! The best is to start with good lighting right away. Then you dont limit yourself on the plants however you do have to consider CO2 injection!

[Paulio]

IME based on the kiss path is to plant heavy right from the start with fast growing hungry plants. This way the algae has a lot to compete with. Also ammonia is a plants fave food so you wont see much of a cycle. It will happen, just way under the radar. Also, in a thriving plant tank the bio material is far less colonized than in a non planted situation.

Paul

[ronrca]

:thumbsup:
Yep!

[rdeis]

So you're saying that high light and hungry plants minimizes the cycle, and also that lots of light with hungry plants minimizes any algea problems because there are no nutrients for the algeas?

That makes plenty of sense, but I'm trying to square it with CO2 requirements and biotypicals assertion that light, CO2, and nutrients all must be kept in balance-- it almost sounds like you're saying that excess light is OK as long as there are enough plants to use up the other two. Maybe it's that I need enough plants, light *and* CO2 to use up the last?

The trickle filter will provide great aeration(sp) so there's a supply of CO2 from atmosphere, but I don't want to get myself in a situation where I have to inject the stuff until I have more experience with plants.

[rdeis]

Then as the tank matures I can add plants at the lower levels and maybe add light, depending on how they do..
Well, let me tell you from experience, thats the hard way to go but sometimes you dont have a choice especially when short on money!


I'm spending a lot on the tank setup and filter, so if you mean buying the cost of a few extra plants that's in the noise-- lights cost more, though, so maybe that's what you meant...

I'm not teribly concerned about the cost of lighting, but what I don't want to do is put so much light in the tank that I need to plant more heavily that I'd otherwise like in order to keep algea growth down, or to spend excessive money on a lighting system that provides more that I ever intended to use...

In final form, I want this tank to be medium-to-lightly planted and not require CO2.

The tank is, after all, all about the discus and the plants are there partly as curiosity, but mainly because they add to the overall natural health of the system, thus keeping the discus happier. Or so goes the theory. (-:

[ronrca]

In final form, I want this tank to be medium-to-lightly planted and not require CO2. Perfect! I just wanted to inform you! From my own experience, I wanted and still want more and more light to grow all types of plants! LOL! 8)

But you seem to have thought it out and decided what you want! :thumbsup: Sounds like your good to go! ;)