Couple of questions from a beginner:

[crashFragment]

Hi,
These are a couple of things that have had me confused for a while now: Why is it recommended to grow discus up in a bare tank?
And, why should discus be kept at 28-30 degrees? I noticed that many fish that come from the same areas/habitats/even locations, as discus are recommended to be kept at 24-26 degrees. Some books even go so far as to say things like "make sure your discus companions can tolerate the high temperature required" while recommending cardinal tetras and blackwater corydoras. If these fish are found with discus in the wild, why must we be cautious about putting them with discus? Are some rivers/creeks/streams especially designed for discus? Of course not. So why the high temp?
I went as far as to ask someone I know who lives in Brazil and he said to get some wild discus, because they'll tolerate 23-33 degrees. So why must captive discus be treated so delicately? I'm sure theres no convenient bare glass bottom rivers in the wild for baby discus to grow up in. Why?
Sorry for the ramble, I'm having a hard time understanding some of this stuff.
Thanks ;D

[Ardan]

Hi,
Bare bottom is just easier to keep clean and to keep disease free.
Discus do best in clean conditions.

Discus also do best in warmer water at least 82F. (also less parasite problem)
Babies grow a bit faster imo at 86F (metabolism is higher)

Yrs ago I tried many discus, usually 78F, or 80F, with gravel, not much luck. They never grew big and many died.

Now I am having better luck, thanks to learning better ways from all the wonderful people here and from Cary at GLD (many hrs on the phone, email, etc) :) 8)
In the wild I am sure many discus die also.

I guess trial and error learning how discus do better in a fish tank has led to todays way of doing things.

hth
Welcome and good questions!

[Carol_Roberts]

. . . . nor are they kept in at 24 degrees in gravel filled 55 gallon tanks in the wild.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Wild conditions can not be replicated in the home (unless you have the Amazon in your backyard).

Through many years of trial and error discus hobbyists have found that juvenile discus grow best in bare bottom tanks kept at 29-30 degrees celcius with daily water changes.

[mattrox]

Discus as I understand come from the Tropics and breed on the floodplane.

I live in the tropics and have seen our floodplane conditions and that is all I can compare it to, so....

About halfway throught the wetsaons the floodplanes are full of slow moving water. The main river channels are roaring torrents. In the Amazon Discus would not be in the main river at this time (too fast for them). The water is not as deep in the floodplane and would have a chance to heat up. Especially towards the end of the wet season when the rains slow and the floodplane dries.

At this time fish can get trapped in the ponds, if it is permanent then they survive. If it is not permanent water then they will die unless another rain allows them to escape.

The upshot of this is that the water is hotter.

Also during the wetseason rainy periods can last for days or even weeks. The fish are constanlty getting rain water washing into their habitat. As I undeerstand it, Discus breed up on the floodplanes. The water is hot and the water is kept fresh by contant rain. Hence, these are the natural conditions for Discus fry. When adults, of course they need to tolerate a range of conditions, but to breed and have the fry survive is another matter.

[crashFragment]

I never stated I wanted to keep discus at 24 degrees in a gravel bottom tank (with a plastic diver and an undergravel filter :P), my Rio negro biotope is setup with sand and driftwood. I can't afford adult discus and I'm not about to strip the display down so I can grow up some babies.

I can't provide evidence (until i can find it again), but I believe discus don't avoid fast flowing waters. They are commonly found around submerged wood in large rivers. I can't recall reading reports of discus found in floodplain waters. They are most likely to be found in the flooded forest during the flood season. I have read reports of them breeding during the DRY season eg. eggs needing a very low ph to develop, babies feeding off parents due to lack of tiny fry foods. The Amazonian floodplains are fed by the snow and ice melting in the Andes. The tropics have regular rainfall anyway, not just one season. Discus aren't collected during the floods, so there isn't any reliable information about what their activities are during this time.

When I find some of these links I'll provide them.

[mattrox]

I can't recall reading reports of discus found in floodplain waters. They are most likely to be found in the flooded forest during the flood season.

The Amazonian floodplains are fed by the snow and ice melting in the Andes. The tropics have regular rainfall anyway, not just one season.


We are not telling you how to set up your tank at all. Your biotope set up must be quite stunning. There is however, a large weight of evidence on how to best raise fry so their growth is not stunted. If you changed water regularly and madesure the gravel was vacummed clean you would have less trouble, but gravel conseals lots of detritus which eventually turns into nitrates. If your plants can uses all these up even better.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you about rainfall in the tropics. Some tropical areas do recieve some rain all year round. But there is generally a rainy season and a dry season. Where I am, and I did say before that it is not the Amazon (we don't get anywhere near the same rain fall), our dry season is particularly long. On average the rainfall between June and September inclusive is nil. Then all the rain falls from about October (spraodically) until at the latest May. December, Janurary and February we get monsoonal activity with very high rain fall.

During the equivalent time in the Amazon rivers would be raging torrents and most fish would struggle to stand the flow. However, on the floodplane the current would be much less. The flooded forest is the floodplane to which I am refering. I am sure that they do breed in the dry season too. It would take a very long time for all the floodwaters to drain. Here it only takes a month, but we get less rain and have less area of floodplane and less catchment area. The snow melt is not the only water feeding the floods. But in any case, fish from this area are getting regular natural water changes. This talks about the flood cycles, but I am sure you already read it.
http://www.mongabay.com/0604.htm


I have read in several places about discus prefering very little water flow but can't find them all now.....
"filter outflows placed to create little current." from
http://www.mongabay.com/fish/biotope_rio_sucasari.htm
Also this link has a bit about where discus are found. http://www.mongabay.com/fish/discus.htm

But this is all somantics anyway. We can never reproduce the Amazon in an aquarium but we can provide similar water qualities. It is just hard to get the water quality for growth with substrate. If you succeed we would all like to hear, it probably isn't impossible to do, just we haven't found out yet. If you make a great discovery we will all be in your debt. People give the advice and it sounds all funny and looks weird with no gravel but they get great results. Just look at the fish they have raised!

[Haywire]

Discus aren't collected during the floods, so there isn't any reliable information about what their activities are during this time.



Nope, far to hard to find and catch in the wet season. Most tropicals are collected in the dry season when the water conditions force them together. Simple economics there. Collect when they are all together. Our local aquarium club had a nice video of the harvest of fishies from the amazon, when they caught discus it was unbelievable how little water the were stored in once the distrubutor boats collected the catch from the fishermen.

[Anonapersona]

From my recent reading, I think the temperatures suggested are more for bacterial control. The water the discus come from is so very pure and acid, it has almost no bacteria.