advice needed !!!!!

[jaydaman]

hi, my well water tests are gh-28, kh-23, and the ph is 7.5 buts raises to about 8.5 after being aged. i have a 75 gpd, 6 stage R.O./D.I. unit. tests of the R.O. water are gh-1, kh-1, and the ph is about 7.0. i've experimented with mixing ratios of R.O. water and tap water to bring up the gh and kh, but by the time i've brought the gh and kh up to about 3, the ph has already shot up over 8. i know ph souldn't be my main concern, but it seems to me that maybe i should use some type of additives instead of my tap water. my thought is that if my R.O. water ph is a stable 7.0, i would be causing alot of possible problems by changing it around by mixing with my tap water. is there a good additive someone could recommend that i can use to raise gh/kh without altering the ph ? am i going in the right direction considering my water conditions ? i would greatly appreciate any advice, suggestions, opinions, or comments. thanks, jason

[CHughes]

Jaydaman:
It sounds like you have tap water like I do. Have you ever tried:

KENT LIQUID R/O RIGHT 16 OZ. -
Specially formulated mixture of dissolved solids (also called general hardness or GH) which includes major salts of sodium, magnesium, calcium, and potassium together with all necessary minor and trace minerals. Provides natural water chemistry for the conversion of reverse osmosis, distilled or deionized water for fresh water fish and plants. Provides a balanced electrolyte system. Useful for all fresh water fish, including Discus. Contains no phosphates, nitrates or organics to pollute the system!

I got this off the Big Al's web site.

http://www.bigalsonline.com

I tried it about 2 years ago and it seemed to work just fine....sadly I can't afford a R/O unit and found a balance in mixing my tap and R/O water from a local water store.

Just my 2 cents...your mileage may vary!
Chris

[ronrca]

it seems to me that maybe i should use some type of additives instead of my tap water. No additives plz! ;) I would not worry about your ph. Just mix tap and RO together to achieve the desired hardness or conductivity. Once you start adding other stuff to the water, you are messing with the water parameters and believe me, its a pain in the butt plus costs money. Id rather spend the money on discus and tanks instead of additives. My tap water ph is 7.8 aged! There are others that have a higher ph with no problems. So, I would just recommend mixing like you mentioned and keeping it simple! ;)

[jaydaman]

thanks for the advice. i'm going to mix with aged tap water for now and see how that goes. thanks again, jason p

[bernie82]

If it makes you feel good to fine tune your water, then by all means go for it, but your Discus don't care. They thrive in hard water. The fry actually do better in it.
I think most of the pros on this forum would agree with me on that.

[jaydaman]

hi, since i have to add tap water to my R.O. water anyway to bring the hardness back up, why not fine tune it? what hardness(gh/kh) do you reccomend for raising discus? will sudden changes in hardness stress my fish like sudden ph changes will? when i mix water for w/c's what should i check? just gh, or do i need to check kh, or should i do both? the mix i'm using now tests out: gh-6, kh-4, ph-8. is this still too low for raising young discus? any help would be great. thanks, jason p.

[bernie82]

Why use R.O water at all? R.o water is good for putting newly laid eggs in for a couple of days, but be sure to get the eggs back into tap water before they hatch. Other than that, forget about it.

[ronrca]

is this still too low for raising young discus?
Basicly, the question is "what water is good for raising discus"?

The answer is:
Yes! Your water is good for raising discus! There is no 'ideal' parameters for raising discus. Discus have been raised in hard water, soft water, medium hard water, etc! The only factor in raising discus to be concerned about is consistant, stable water parameters, meaning that the ph, gh, kh, temperature, etc are the same before, during and after the water changes.

The above however does not apply for breeding discus, just raising them! ;)

HTH

[jaydaman]

hi, are you saying that it is your opinion that water with a gh of 28, and kh of 23 is fine for raising quality discus? i was under the impression that this would be considered extremely hard water. i should also mention that if i took a clean tank and filled it with tap water, by the next day it would look like it has an 1/8 inch of fine white sand on the bottom. am i wrong to think this is because of the hardness? i still need a target gh/kh to shoot for. thanks, jason

[ronrca]

the next day it would look like it has an 1/8 inch of fine white sand on the bottom :o :o :o :o
Yikes! What is in your water? This is tap water, not well water right? Hmmmm......Not really sure about it. ???


gh of 28, and kh of 23 Yes, rather hard water! LOL! While it is not unheard of to raise discus in hard water, imo, Id bring it down by at least half.

[Smokey]

Jason p;
Here is my 25 cents worth.. The KH for discus is ~45ppm. {normal osmotic level]. World experts have agreed on this.

NOW - to help understand your water numbers;
Your readings - is this degrees or ppm. Difference is_ 1 ppm eguals 17.8 degrees. . These are the correct numbers for converting back and forth. ppm to degrees. If you want to convert from ppm to degrees Multiply by 0.056.

If your readings for the KH are 23 degrees; this would be equal to a reading of ~410 ppm. Now this is getting into the "liquid rock" range. {my rocky mountain tapwater is 450ppm/25.2 dH degrees].

Back to your ro numbers. You said the kh is 3degrees/53.4ppm, however the pH rises to 8 [ correct?].
What would your pH be, if you had a kh hardness of 2.5 degrees/45 ppm. ??

I see from your profile, you are in Ohio. well water is very hard out your way. lots of salts. I assume your well water feeds your house, correct. Tapwater/wellwater lol...

Now you see how the numbers start to come together.

Smokey
On my parents farm, the well water measures into the 600ppm range. - great for gallstones. Tastes like seawater ... mind you, at one time the plains of north America were covered by salt water.

[jaydaman]

hi, i live in southwest ohio and i do have well water. i have a reverse osmosis filter. the water from the R.O. filter is basically stripped. pure water from R.O. will not even register with my test kit. my test kit is a tetra liquid drop, that tests gh and kh by counting drops needed to cause the sample to change colors. i mix R.O. water with my well water to achieve the desired gh/kh. depending on the ratio i use, i can easily pinpoint any gh/kh i want between 0 and the mid 20's. with the gh always being slightly higher. so i'm still looking for that magic number to shoot for. i'm not really concerned with ph.

[Smokey]

Jason - a magic number to shoot for ; O.K. - I like the KH to be ~45ppm.

What do you think[?].

Smokey