Need to lower Ph!

[knewby]

My water parameters are very far away from the LFS's and need to lower the Ph considerably. My Ph is around 7.8 and there's is around 6.5? How do i do this? OR should i just acclimate them very slowly, and if so, how?

[kjmillerfw]

Hi Mr. Dude,

Check out this thread that addressed the same question.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=14984;s tart=msg155572#msg155572


HTH,
Kathy

[Carol_Roberts]

Since they won't be in the bags long you can dump a cup of your tank water in the bag, wait 15 minutes, pour out most of the bag wter, reach in bag, grasp discus with two hands and plop in tank.

Are you sure of the health and quality of discus you are getting from a fish store - do they know discus?

[knewby]

I'm not sure if they know discus, but they seem to keep them in great water conditions.

[knewby]

Also, what kind of bucket should i use to acclimate the fish in? Should it be one for this special procedure? Do i need a heater in the bucket?

[Carol_Roberts]

Any $1.98 plastic bucket will do. Take a couple of plastic buckets to the store with you and put the bags in the buckets to bring them home. Cut off tops. Pour a cup of tank water in each bag. Wait 15 minutes. Pull out a bag, dump out most of water, reach in and grasp discus with two hands, put fish in tank. Pull out next bag, pour out water, . . .

If you think the water conditions are perfect because the pH is low you are wrong. Perfect water is water that is clean and changed every day or so with Ph stable water. My pH is 7.8

[knewby]

Do i need a heater in each bucket?

[Carol_Roberts]

You can if you want to but, they will only be in the bucket a few minutes

[Not2Day]

Have the LFS put your discus bags into a styrofoam box and save yourself $1.98 :-* Your ph is just fine.

[wilyeo]

Since we are at this topic. My current ph is about 7.4. Some says that there is no harm remaining it at this level. Some say it is better to keep it between 6.8 - 7.0. I just purchased some Sera PH Drop. How do I lower the ph, with or without my discuses in the water? I am afraid that I may lower the ph tremendously and the discuses may get a high.

Please advise. 8)

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Wilfred:
Take the Sera pH drop back to the store and ask for your money back. My pH is 7.8 and my juveniles do just fine.

Never try to alter the pH in the tank with the discus in it. They don't get high they get acid burns.

[RandalB]

How 'bout my $0.02?

Take the fish home, open the bag, place fish in tank. No acclimation no temp adjust. I've never had a problem doing this. I have now done it with marine fish and inverts also and had no problems. Letting the ammonia build up in my book is a bigger problem than temp or pH differences.

My pH is also 7.8 and no problems with growing up discus.

RandalB

[Amadhunter]

I'm a little confused. What about breeding? No doubt they will grow out in 7.8 ph, but I've read that they will only breed in softer, lower ph conditions. Is this my misunderstanding? ???

[Carol_Roberts]

Breeding and egg hatching are two different things. mine lay eggs in hard water all the time. The eggs will not hatch if the water is too hard. Even when I mix ROand tap to reduce the hardness and allow the eggs to hatch my pH still hovers around 7.5. I only have domestics. I've read that wilds may require soft water with low pH.

[RyanH]

My pH is also right around 7.6 and my fish are breeding machines. When I clean the tanks and change their water I hardly get the spawning pot back into the tank before they are cleaning and laying eggs on it. The fresh, slightly cooler water triggers the spawn. I'm convinced of that.

Clean, soft water with a stable pH is the key. People make things harder on themselves than they need to.

[Amadhunter]

OK, then, in the case that I want to try softening, and lowering the ph in my tank, what is the best ways to do this? I've thought about buying a water softener for the house water, but what about now? I've got stable 7.8 ph, tap and tank water. My GH is 6, KH is 8, is this too hard for the eggs to be fertilized? What GH/KH is required? How do I safely reach those levels?

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Amadhunter,
Everybody is telling you not to adjust the Ph because you will be doing this every water change. Too much hassle and discus will do fine in your ph.

If you want to lower the Ph, go to homedepot and buy muriatic acid. The cost is about 3.00 a gal. Adjust Ph in a storage tank overnight with airstone and heater. Try adding acid a little at a time. Remember to wait at least 4 hours before testing the ph. The ph will go down then back up because of the buffers in the water.

Dan

[jeep]

Adjusting your Ph with chemical additives is risky business!!!

It takes more knowledge about water and paramiters than simply forcing your Ph down. The first thing to do is find out what the composition of the water is and work from there.

Everything has to be just right... If you just force the Ph down and your water is out of whack, then you risk a Ph crash and lose our fish, or damage them for life :)

Although some do use acids to lower Ph, I would suggest doing some extensive reading in the water section (as well as other sources) before using acids. JMO ???

Brian

[Miles]

What is your PH after 24 hours of aireration?

Miles

[Amadhunter]

7.8 after the cup of tap sits out overnight, 7.8 in my tank...... stable.

[RyanH]

I wouldn't touch your pH. It's fine. JMO.

-Ryan

[Miles]

IMO, I would leave your PH alone.

Miles

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Brain,
I been lowering the ph with muriatic acid on the breeders with no ill affect. There's a certain point where the ph will crash. Test first on a gallon of water with a dropper until you get the ph you desire. Remember add acid a little at a time and let the water sit awhile with an airstone. If your ph crashes you can easily bring it back up with baking soda.
You can also use peat to lower the ph but too much hassle. jmo

amadhunter- get a little experience first in just keeping your discus alive before messing with the water parameters.

Dan

Dan

[Martinphillip03]

Dan, Why would the PH crash? Is KH the key or GH the key.

Marty[/size][/size][/size][/size][/font]





I been lowering the ph with muriatic acid on the breeders with no ill affect. There's a certain point where the ph will crash. Test first on a gallon of water with a dropper until you get the ph you desire. Remember add acid a little at a time and let the water sit awhile with an airstone. If your ph crashes you can easily bring it back up with baking soda.

Dan

[GoodMike]

ya, why would the ph crash, ive been using muratic acid for a little while as well...never had that problem, i just add the measured amount (i now know exact) and have a pump mix it around....no problems with ph crashing or anything...stays stable for me.

[lesley]

Martinphillip03, GoodMike,

In my experience, if you have a kH measurement of 35 ppm or less, then you are most certainly in danger of pH crashes. I lost some lovely fish this way. You need to read the posts already here about pH crashes and kH measurements, etc. if you are lowering your pH. You definitely need to understand what you are doing!.

I use peat to both stabilise my water and adjust the pH which I need to do after I have had to use calcium carbonate to stop pH crashes.

I have a bb tank with a pair of discus that I hope will produce fry and they are in water which has been aged with peat and has marine shells in it. I measure the kH daily in that tank (as I do in my others as well) and if there has been any change I immediately do a large water change.

HTH, Lesley

[Carol_Roberts]

I have moderately hard water (GH and KH are both about 12). I experimented with adding muriatic acid to my water to lower pH. I would add a quantity of acid which would lower the pH, but 24 hours later the pH would have bounced back up. I had to add quite a bit of acid to get the pH to stay down . . . . and then I was teetering on the edge as normal biological processes (converting ammonia to nitrIte then to nitrAte) produce acid in the tank.

IF I did not add enough acid the pH would bounce back up, if I overdid it the pH would crash. The discus were NOT happy. I quickly figured out the key is stable water where the pH does not fluctuate.

My water comes out of the tap at 6.8 and it naturally raises to 7.8. I can get it to 7.8 with about 3 hours of heavy agitation. Tanks are 7.8, change water is 7.8. Discus are happy.

If you have naturally soft water with low GH and KH you may be able to easily lower your pH without it swinging up. Then you just have to watch out for pH crashes.

If you are trying to breed wilds then you may need an RO and you may need to lower pH. If you are growing out juveniles don't mess with the pH. Spend your time changing water instead ;D

[Martinphillip03]

That is why I am asking questions. I have no discus but I have a tetra tank. I change 30 gallons of water. to that I add 4 teaspoons on sodium biphosphate to lower the ph to 6.2. It will bounce up to 6.4 or 6.5. I had a ph crash not to long ago. To long between water changes. I suspected my KH went to zero. Well I read this thread and wanted information, hence the question. Also I thought about area of high GH and KH. Due to bouncing it would be hard or inpossible to lower it safely. We could talk all day about thr dangers of muratic acid. The next, how it affects discus.
Thanks for the info, I do appreciate the concern

Marty


Martinphillip03,

You definitely need to understand what you are doing!.

[GulfCoastDiscus]

martin,
The ph will crash if you add too much acid. That is why I suggested to add a little at a time till you get the right amount base on the buffer in your water. When you exceed the buffering capabilty of your tap water the ph will crash.

Dan

[Martinphillip03]

Dan, Thanks. So KH is key. Correct?

Marty

martin,
The ph will crash if you add too much acid. That is why I suggested to add a little at a time till you get the right amount base on the buffer in your water. When you exceed the buffering capabilty of your tap water the ph will crash.

Dan

[Martinphillip03]

I researched the Water area and answered my own questions. FYI I'm not going to fool with it. Just do water changes.

Marty


Dan, Thanks. So KH is key. Correct?

[Amadhunter]

Alright, I will not mess with the ph. That's a done deal, questions answered. :) Thank you all very much.
The query still stands about GH, and KH though. Do I take measures to lower them? If so, how? If I luck out, and get a pair to lay eggs, do these parameters matter? I have GH 7 and KH 8.
Another question, If I have a group of discus in my 75, two of em pair off and spawn, do I remove the other fish? Or somehow separate them with a barricade of some type? Or, do I move the spawning pair to their own domicile?
Man, the more I think, the less I know! LOL, you folk are fantastic! Thanks again for all the patience with a newbie.

Darren

[Carol_Roberts]

KH is key

Darren:
Only way to lower GH is with RO filter (removes minerals). You should get hatches in your water - in fact I think it's similiar to Cary Strongs.

[Amadhunter]

Thanks again Carol. :):) Ya know what? I'm gonna have to name you my mentor! You are the quickest to answer my questions. :) Thank you so very much! My interest in discus grows every time I visit the site, due mostly to your answers to my ignorant queries.
Oooooops, you said that my parameters are the same as Carys, that answers the "should I" part too. Thx again. :):)