Newbie- question on water changes

[elpaninaro]

Good evening everyone,

I am new to this forum- having been guided here by a helpful person from a general tropical fish discussion forum.

Several years ago when I was in high school, I had a discus. In fact it was probably the happiest and longest lived fish I ever had. He shared quarters with a clown knife of all things, and looking back I seem to have not followed any rules in caring for him properly lol. But he got nice and big and pretty anyway.

Well, been a few years and I am ready to do this right and on a larger scale. And from all I am reading I am wondering how on earth the poor little guy I had before ever made it!

I have found a local highly reputable dealer with specific discus experience and the plan is for a 75 gallon aquarium with Eheim filters and live plants to handle a group of 3-5 discus.

For you I have two questions please- one very important since it will dictate whether I do this at all.

1. The plan was to create a fairly Spartan environment but definitely with live plants (mostly floating) and some driftwood. Reading posts here I get the feeling that sort of set up can interfere with breeding? Am I misreading something? If I eventually hope to see some pairing and spawning, is it a bad idea to have the driftwood and substrate with plants in there?

2. Water cycling. The gentleman I spoke with raises and breeds discus. He recommended 30% water changes weekly with 70% RO water (he supplies it) and 30% of our local tap water which is mineral rich- all aged and aerated, brought to tank temp (84 degrees) before the switch. He did note some people do it more frequently than he does.

However, in reading the internet the last few days I have seen everything from 20% every 2 weeks to 30-40% per day as a recommendation.

As much as I would love to raise some discus, daily water changes are just not practical.

Thus I pose the question to all. What to do?

I would like to note I am not trying to insult anyone or bounce experienced opinions against each other listening to none in the process.

I am just saying there is a huge time and expense difference in 30% per day changes versus 30% per week, and I am trying to figure out where this comes from.

Could it have to do with what one has to work with in terms of RO and/or local water supply?

Is it just a matter of experiences good and bad?

Could it be impacted by the fact the plan is for only 3-5 fish in a 75 gallon tank which seems lower than other maximums that I have read?

In the end I want to not only have fun with this, but give these beautiful fish the care they need.

Thanks to all for reading this loooong email. I think I am about where I need to be to get started, but I really want to nail down this water change thing before I spend any money on anything.

[Carol_Roberts]

You will not raise great big, picture book discus in the set up you propose. Buy the biggest discus you can as they may not grow much after purchase. Adults if you can.

The consensus among people who focus on growing out discus (rather than focusing on the planted tank)is to grow out 6 or more juveniles in a 55 gallon bare bottom tank with daily water changes of 30 - 50% with aged mineral rich tap water (not RO for juveniles). Feed heavily with meaty foods and clean daily. Think of the tank as a glass feeding trough.

This breeder specializes in discus and only changes water once a week? Water changes aren't good for plants - that's why some folks change such a small amount of water. They focus on the plants - no the discus. Discus thrive with big daily water changes. My water is GH 12 and pH 7.8 for juveniles


Adults can get by with less water change if they are understocked. Try a pair or two of adults in your tank

[elpaninaro]

Hi Carol,

Nice to meet you and thank you for your feedback.

I should clarify- the person in question owns the pet store, carries a good selection of discus (he had about 100 of them in medium and large size covering 4-5 general color schemes), and he also has some home tanks where he has raised them to size.

Sounds like I need to perhaps go back and have a conversation with him about what I want from discus. For me it would be nice to see them grow large, and breeding would be an added bonus- but my main concern is the fish having a good life in compensation for the joy they will bring me.

In other words, if my discus made it to 5 inches instead of 6 but were still healthy and happy like his appear to be, then I am ok. But if not reaching a full size is indicative that they are not in good health or spirits, then I would not be comfortable.

I really want to do this, but I cannot in good faith make a bigger time committment than I can honor at the expense of the fish.

Once a week is the big thing for me- and twice could be feasible I think. I could change out 60% of the water at a time if it would help. It is the frequency thing that concerns me.

[RyanH]

Discus need very clean water first and foremost. Plants, driftwood, and gravel are things that are aesthetically pleasing to people. Discus do not care about these things either way. In order to have happy fish you must be able to take the time to keep their tank clean. If you only have time to change water once a week you may want to consider waiting on keeping Discus. This is especially true if you are going to start out with juveniles.

[MonkeeFish]

why not juss get adults and not worry about the dail water changes. You wont see them grow probably but you get might (if you're lucky) get that added bonus you want of forming a pair.


If you juss wanna focus on the discus' themselves why not juss go to the extent and set up somet kind of system for water changes where most of the time you juss gotta turn valves and wait to drain/refill the tanks and go with the barebottom tank.

I

[elpaninaro]

Good morning all,

Monkeefish, actually I did some thinking last night and I figured a possible solution to this problem.

I have been walking around fretting about hauling water from faucet to tank 2-3 times a week, but something occurred to me and would be curious to know if this sounds reasonable.

Ok, 75 gallon tank. Right next to it a 20-29 gallon tank with a heater keeping a ready supply of water that is aged at least 1-2 days between changings. Heater keeps water at 84 degrees.

I set up the tanks side by side in the living room right under the bar (this area is never used so is quiet and not subject to shadows flying etc.) so that the 20 gallon tank can be filled from the sink (to the extent tap is used) with a hose attachment.

Then when it is time to change water, just siphon off about 20-29 gallons of old into buckets and dispose.

Then get an inexpensive pump used for desktop fountains and pump the new water out of the holding tank into the aquarium.

Better still, this seems a heck of a lot less disruptive than me pouring water each time- even if I go slow (which is unlikely with 20-30 gallons to get through.)

Does that sound like a scenario that could work? Better still if I can find a big barrel or something that holds 50+ gallons, then I could just fill that up once a week and do 2-3 water changes during the week.

If not this, any other schemes you guys have formulated are welcome.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[Carol_Roberts]

Your idea will work perfectly! (except foro the size of the pump)

Most all of us store water in containers, heat and agitate it to off gas CO2 and stabilize pH then pump it to our tanks.

Get a pond pump from Walmart - medium or large. Otherwize you will spend hours waiting for your tank to refill. Height pumped is the important thing. You need a pump that will raise the water 6 feet and you want it to fit an inside diameter hose of 1/2 inch (python type hoses) or 3/4 inch.

Here is a picture of a couple of my water storage barrels

[alex_m]

I am sorry...........

you don't need big water changes to grow discus.

you don't need to clean your tank everyday

you don't need your nitrates below 5

you don't need to clean your filters often

IMO

alex

[Carol_Roberts]

Well Alex, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion and to keep your fish however you choose.

[delmore]

I am sorry...........
you don't need big water changes to grow discus.
you don't need to clean your tank everyday
you don't need your nitrates below 5
you don't need to clean your filters often
IMO
alex


Are you taliking about growing out discus, or keeping adult discus ??? You should qualify your statements. I've read 100's of posts by folks with sick discus that cared for them just like you treat yours.

[djknightingale]

alex_m is right you don't need any of those things, however, if you want your discus to grow well and be happy (which it sounds like you do) then you'll want to keep them in very clean water. I just started keeping discus not to long ago. I Love it, but the bottomline is that it requires work to do it well. Your fish will even let you know when they are uncomfortable, they have clamped fins, hide in the corner, get dark, etc. It's not rocket science, very clean water and good food. I have the same setup you described, works great, I change 40% twice a day (that may be overkill but I want my fish to be happier then pigs in s@$t, and so far they are. so take whatever advice you may, but the bottomline with this forum is that there are many knowledgeable people and they all say the same thing (lots of w/c's and good food).

hth

dave

[Don_Lee]

I have really found it hard to keep discus healthy w/o daily water changes. It may be doable to do less w/c, and keeping the bioload low and filtering well will help in that area. However, I would not count on weekly water changes being successful with keeping discus happy.
Carol's recent pics on how she does her water changes really provide a good idea of how to do WC efficiently. Python type hoses are a godsend, and pumps and hoses can make hauling water unnecessary if you are not changing water right from the faucet.
Good Luck!

Don ;D

[steve s]

If you use a 32gal barrel holding tank, age water
24 hours with heat and air and use a pump to put water
to tank. use a python to clean tank and refill holding tank
a water change will take you only 30 min.
you can get by without changes everyday, but the more
changes make happy, heathy fish.
30min a day or every other day

[Fish Addict]

Ladies and Gentlemen ....


Please dont' start the WATER war..

If your fish are healthy and growing with your current water changes, then keep your water changes that way..


There are endless possibilities...

We may underdo/overdo water changes....but who know...

I dont' do daily water changes. If you guys think daily water changes is important..... then do it.....I always support you guys...

...Hope we put our differences aside.....and enjoy our Discus ;)