I think I "get it" now- some final questions please

[elpaninaro]

Good evening all- with sincere thanks to everyone, especially Carol, who has helped me so far.

I have read SOOOOO many posts and talked to SOOOO many people and I think tonight I finally "GET IT", and hope I am on the right track.

I am going to forget the big pretty tank full of gravel, live plants and enough driftwood to trade in for diamonds at Tiffany's.

It suddenly seems to me the first goal- and the most fun- is going to be to raise a group of juveniles to size, and then see where things go.

And what I have concocted will not only be affordable, but will allow for an overall 100% water change each week (spread out to 2-3 times weekly.)

Here goes,

55 gallon tank with zero decoration- just something on the bottom to avoid reflection and maybe a few floating plants (yes?) to diffuse the light.

Aqua 500 filter with sponges (you all seem to prefer that to these $200+ Eheim things- and my wallet agrees!) Added peat filter a good idea at this time by the way?

5-6 juvenile discus in a 2-3 inch size.

So now the questions- things I did not really find in reading other posts (and perhaps I was not looking hard enough so forgive me.)

1. 55 gallon plastic storage drum for water- does a submersible heater work in these things? Any issues with melting plastic? How does one affix it to the sides of a round plastic barrel?

2. I am getting the feeling mineral rich water is best for the young ones. So can I please forget about RO at this point?

3. With my work schedule, 2 times a day feedings are ideal. Does this pose a problem? I can buy an automated feeder to do a midday feeding if that will help.

4. What is the best mechanism to use for cleaning a bare bottomed tank? I was planning to scoop up all the messy stuff each water cycling and maybe even do some daily sucking of the really messy piles.

And final question- in this type of setup, how much time do I have to be ready for more tanks? I know this depends on a lot of variables, but assuming good conditions will I have at least 18-24 months before these get so big that I need to/am able to start thinking about a show tank for some and breeding for others etc?

Thanks for any thoughts! Glad I found this website. Looks like I can get started in this for a LOT less money than I thought- and be doing things a bit simpler- all with better results.

Life gets no better ;D

PS- If someone can please suggest a good water testing kit, I can start testing aged tap water samples now and be prepared for whatever implications arise.

[RyanH]

It sounds to me like you are on the right track. :thumbsup:

Now for your questions:

1. Any submersible heater will work fine. The suction cups shouldn't have any problems sticking to the sides. Just make sure the heater is not directly touching the plastic side.

2. You do not have to concern yourself with RO.

3. An automatic feeder would be a very good idea. Your fish need to be fed 5-6 times per day. I just bought an Eheim from Bigals that has worked great. ($32.99 at www.bigalsonline.com )

4. I use a Python hose for my tanks. The suction from the syphon should be more than sufficient to pick up poo piles. I would also invest in a tank brush or glove to wipe down the bottome and sides once a week or so.

5. I would think that 5 or 6 grown right up through adulthood would be fine in a 55 as long as you keep up with your maintenence. If your fish start to pair off then that will open up a whole other can of worms however...
I would just spend the next several months researching and learning about how to take care of your fish and concern yourself with a showtank later.

Remember the most important part of Discus keeping: have fun! ;D ;D

hth
-Ryan

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm going to post a thread shortly on how I do water changes with barrels and hoses and pumps, lol.

I agree with Ryan's answers, but would like to add that my heaters just sit on the bottom of the plastic barrel and I use a sponge on a plastic stick (sold in the cleaning supplies of grocery stores) to clean the tank walls

[jaydoc]

I put my heater in a cheap glass fish bowl submerged in the bottom og my barrel to make sure it doesn't touch the plastic. The top of the heater where the sensor is sticks up above the bowl so it senses the barrel tempo accurately. Also, I have a hose from my aeration power filter's intake that goes into the fish bowl so that the circulating water is drawn from there so that I am not just heating a stationary bowl of water at the bottom of the barrel. It seems to work great.

[elpaninaro]

Thanks guys!

Sounds like this is going to work after all.

One other big nagging question though- the initial cycling of the tank!

Can it be done with no fish, or best to do it with some tetras or something? With this reduced discus budget I have room to have a 20 gal in my bedroom and this could work out perhaps- use some community fish to cycle the discus tank and then put them in the bedroom tank before the discus get here?

Jay- killer idea about the glass fishbowl inside the barrel- that dog will hunt!

This is all terribly exciting. Time to cool my jets and relax lol. Even if I start this weekend it will be a few weeks before any actual discus get in here.

[RyanH]

You can use ammonia to do a fishless cycle. Go to the grocery store and get yourself a bottle of plain old ammonia. No scents, flavors, or colors. Also, go get yourself a freshwater test kit (bigals, on special right on the front page $9.99).

1. Add a couple of teaspoons of ammonia for every 10 gallons of water. Check ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Nitrites and nitrates should be basically zero.

2. Check again every week. Ammonia should eventually drop to zero. Nitrites should spike and Nitrates should slowly rise and then level off. Once you have no ammonia or nitrites but high amt. of nitrates your tank is cycled. This should take about 3 weeks or so. After your tank is cycled, change 95% of the water and then add your fish.

You can also use hearty tropical fish to cycle but they may introduce disease.

[Carol_Roberts]

Here is a picture of my eheim feeder (left side on top of the aqua clear) and the hose filling the tank

[elpaninaro]

Hi Ryan and Carol,

Thanks for the clarification. I will let the books get here (I ordered a slew of discus books on amazon.com that will arrive tomorrow) and take them in with ideas here for fishless cycling.

Great photos Carol. The water looks great in your tank. I will put the feeder on my list too and I imagine that I can gauge from the bottom of the tank if there is too much food spitting out of the feeder for the fish.

Just curious about that shot,

The flower pot. Whazzat for? I have plenty to add if I need them (I grow orchids and I have NO shortage of clay pots lol.)

There is a bar suctioned to the base of your tank in the photo. Is that the heater?

Take care,

Tom.

[RyanH]

Although the books in print right now can be helpful, most are older and much of the info found in them is out of date. Take what is written with a grain of salt. Don't be surprised if you find a few direct contradictions to what is told to you on this site. Dramatic changes in the way people keep Discus have occured over the last few years.

Just a little food for thought...

[Carol_Roberts]

Most of the discus books are very outdated, but the pictures are nice.

You can set how much food is dispersed with the Eheim and test it by pressing the bar. Test it on a paper towel so you can feed the exact amount - you don't want to pollute your tank or feed too little.

That is the heater laying in the bottom of the tank.

The flower pot is in case any discus is looking for a slanted vertical suface to lay eggs on ;)

Here is a dark picture of a sponge on a stick it also shows (if you can see it) how the lid can be used to hold the hose in place during refills

[RyanH]

Carol,

You are going crazy with your camera tonight. I love it! Keep those pics coming!

[jaydoc]

More fishie pics please, Carol :bounce: :bounce2: :bounce: :bounce2:

[Carol_Roberts]

It was mostly all tank and cleaning pictures today http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=16573

[elpaninaro]

You can use ammonia to do a fishless cycle. Go to the grocery store and get yourself a bottle of plain old ammonia. No scents, flavors, or colors. Also, go get yourself a freshwater test kit (bigals, on special right on the front page $9.99).

1. Add a couple of teaspoons of ammonia for every 10 gallons of water. Check ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Nitrites and nitrates should be basically zero.

2. Check again every week. Ammonia should eventually drop to zero. Nitrites should spike and Nitrates should slowly rise and then level off. Once you have no ammonia or nitrites but high amt. of nitrates your tank is cycled. This should take about 3 weeks or so. After your tank is cycled, change 95% of the water and then add your fish.

You can also use hearty tropical fish to cycle but they may introduce disease.


Thanks Ryan,

It also occurred to me today that since I do not want other fish peeing in the tank to get the ammonia going, perhaps I could do it- but I take it that is not advisable either ;)

So I will just go the store bought ammonia route. Feels really wierd to stick ammonia in a fish tank, but I am reading up on this cycling and learning a whole lot I never knew.

Actually I did get those books in (and they do have great pics!), but I can already see how one of them is pretty much rehashing what I thought I knew about discus 10 years ago.

Amazing how this hobby has changed and developed in my absence!