Which substrate for heavily planted discus tank in Australia?

[Chris McMahon]

I'm setting up my first tank. It's a 5'x2'x2' (150 US gallon). I'm after some recommendations for what substrate to use. I'd like a dark substrate.

Keep in mind that I'm in Australia and that a lot of the substrates people normally recommend are either not available here, or are extremely expensive (eg a 14kg bag of SeaChem Flourite costs AUD$143 ~ US$109, a 20kg bag of Onyx Sand is AUD$120).

My fall back position is 80kg of 3mm black river pebbles, which I've already ordered with the tank and cost AUD$60. They should give me a 6cm deep substrate.

I'll be running 2x150w MH and 2x40w fluros (2.5w/g) and I will be adding a ph controller with a co2 tank and reactor within a few weeks.

Temp will be 28C.

My short list of plants are:
Anubias Barteri 'Nana' (Anubias Nana)
Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis' (Narrow Leaf Giant Hygro)
Microsorum pteropus 'Windeløv' (Java Ferm var)
Vesicularia dubyana (Java Moss)
Hygrophila difformis - to start, remove once other plants fill out

Glossostigma elatinoides (Glosso)
Lilaeopsis novaezlandiae (Micro Sword)

Alternanthera reineckii ''roseafolia'' (Red Temple plant)
Ammannia gracillis (Cognac plant)
Ludwigia repens
Rotala macranda

Once the plants are settled in and I've completed a fishless cycle, I'll be adding a small algae cleaner crew. Then when I think everything is stable, 10 or so discus.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Mix 25% Laterite (Dupla is headquarted in Australia, use their stuff) with 75% Gravel that has a 2 to 3mm particle size to a total depth of about 3cm. Follow with another 6 to 7 cm of well rinsed gravel with a particle size of 2 to 3mm. That's what I did in my 120. I use Azoo 120V Undergravel heating cables as well. I like a good 10cm (~4") of substrate for good plant rooting. Some however find that excessive. By employing the heating cables, I'm assured exchange within the substrate.

Curious, are Dupla products affordable in Australia?

I also prefer darker substrates.

[Chris McMahon]

Dulpa (http://www.dupla.com/start_e.htm) are a German company.

Duplarit G Laterite is AUD$70/kg. Based on Dulpa's recommended useage of 250g/100 litres, I'd need 1.5kg for AUD$105 (US$78).

Heating Cables aren't too successful here in the sub-tropics, were the average temp is 28C. They would be off 95% of the time. BTW my current room temp is 32C at 5:21am!

10cm of substrate seems a little deep to me. Aren't their H2S issues with substrate that deep? I was thinking something like 1" in the front, graded up to 3" in the back. Planting the deep rooted stuff in the middle to back of the tank, with a lawn in the front 1/3.

At the moment I'm thinking of 80kg of 3mm Black River Pebbles ($60) over 2 bags of JBL "aquabasis plus (http://www.jbl.de/uk/aqua/uk_20212.html)" ($70) mixed with 15 litres of vermiculite ($7.50). The JBL product seems to be a more well rounded nutrient supplier than Dulpa's Laterite, at least to me.

[FischAutoTechGarten]

Yes, there are H2S issues with very deep substrate. That's where the substrate cables come in handy...keeps the substrate from getting poisoned over time.

I always forget just how hot it is in Australia...86degF that early in the morning.

Dupla is a German company. However, the founder moved to Western Australia more than 20 years ago and set up shop there. Thought that would give you folks cheaper prices.

3lbs of Duplarit G Laterite can be had very reasonably here in the US. Probably $30 to $40.

[Chris McMahon]

Dupla is a German company. However, the founder moved to Western Australia more than 20 years ago and set up shop there. Thought that would give you folks cheaper prices.
I did a bit of digging and found out Horst E. Kipper, the founder of Dupla, actually lives in North Queensland currently, apparently doing reef research. He may also be into Go Carting. ;D

Dupla have an office in Adelaide SA. But even so, they are still expensive here.

I've been told that Kitty Litter is laterite. But that was as specific as it got. No brands or percentages or contaminates etc. Anyone know if this is true?

[ChloroPhil]

Chris,

Kitty Litter is basically clay. Laterite is stone/soil that has been eroded so much over time that it's essentially super iron rich crumbly rock. If you're interested in using Laterite I do suggest heating cables.

If you're not so interested in spending that kind of money a regular, non enameled, gravel will work just as well. I've got a friend in Canada that has a gorgeous discus tank and all he uses is paver base grit and good liquid fertiliztion. I'm starting to lean that way myself for discus tanks, my Flourite is overgrown with algae and it's really getting on my nerves.

Best,
Phil

[xen]

Heya Chris,

Nice to see you on SD ;-)

Another interesting laterite tidbit for you..

Apparently it comes from Nth Qld anyway, not the depths of wildest africa as their packaging might have you believe :-)

A few local stores around Brisbane have non-Dupla branded red clay balls that seem identical to the real thing, at about half the price. Obviously you want gravel not balls, but I'm sure you could find some cheaper local alternatives.

Personally I prefer the balls rather than gravel - that way you can be a lot more thorough with gravel cleaning without messing with your substrate. That said, I'm raising juveniles, so cleaning is important.

Cheers!
John

[Chris McMahon]

If you're interested in using Laterite I do suggest heating cables.
I think heating cables are out for me. If I got them, I've have to also get a chiller as I plan to run my tank at 28C. I'll have a hard enough time keeping it under that for 6 months of the year as it is, with MH lights adding to the heat as well.


I've got a friend in Canada that has a gorgeous discus tank and all he uses is paver base grit and good liquid fertilisation. I'm starting to lean that way myself for discus tanks, my Flourite is overgrown with algae and it's really getting on my nerves.I read a few opinions that it's preferable to keep the micro-nutrients in the substrate and out of the water column, to make it harder for algae to assimilate them.

The more I think about it, it may be easier in the long run to stick with bottom later of "aquabasis plus" & vermiculite with black pebbles on top, then fertilise with PMDD or similar as required.



A few local stores around Brisbane have non-Dupla branded red clay balls that seem identical to the real thing, at about half the price. Obviously you want gravel not balls, but I'm sure you could find some cheaper local alternatives.
I've thought about using red clay. I can get artists red clay fairly cheap, but I don't believe it has the same iron content as Laterite. I visited a half dozen Gold Coast shops looking for Laterite but no one had any.

I did find "red iron ball supplements" from JBL though. Forgot to ask the price.

[xen]

Heya Chris,

Pet City have an 'alternative' red clay ball fertilizer that from memory is about $12 for 9-10 balls. They may have been JBL, I don't remember.

Cheers!
John

[Chris McMahon]

Thanks Xen, I'll follow that up.