cleaning without water change

[hooha]

anyone do this? Instead of cleaning out the bottom of the tank while taking out 10-20% of the water and then replacing it, does anyone just do some "vacuuming" and then replace the water every 3-4 (or 7) days?

I'm thinking that with an established filter, it should be able to handle the ammonia/nitrite load for that long if extra food/poop was sucked up daily or every other day. You could probably clean enough of the junk off the bottom with a small syphon in a gallon or less of water depending on the size of the tank, making the drop in the water level pretty small.

Then again I'm just speculating, I don't even have discus yet :) Just planning on what I'm going to do when I get them. My current plan is to grow some out in a 29 gallon and then transfer them to a 75 gallon planted "show tank" once they're adults. The planted tank will be at work, so if I can get away with fewer water changes the better.

[RyanH]

Not a good idea. Even with a strong biological filter, nitrates will build up in your water and eventually will poison your fish.

Even if you managed to keep them alive for awhile, they cannot be expected to get much larger than a silver dollar you will quickly find yourself with stunted, sickly fish that cannot be expected to live much longer than a couple of years. If you intend to take care of your tank this way you may as well save yourself the time, money and anguish and not bother with Discus.

My dad keeps African Cichlids this way and they seem to do ok. Although they are not very big. Check out www.duboisi.com for more info on African Cichlids.

[Carol_Roberts]

Ryan is correct. This might work just fine for Africans, but discus will stunt. They need a clean tank and lots of clean water to stay healthy and grow.

[hooha]

good to know

i'll just grow out the discus at home then and switch them over when they reach adult size. If NH3,NO2 and NO3 are the main things to worry about then an established planted tank shouldn't be a problem when they are fully grown. I almost have to add nitrate already to my planted tank because it drops below 5 with only weekly water changes.

[Willie]

No, that won't work. You can't compensate for water changes by planting your tank. If anything, you'll need more water changes to keep a planted tank clean. Frankly, if you're not ready to make lots of water changes, you should look at something else besides discus.

You can do it the other way around. Some people change 2 - 3 times a day and use no filtration.

Willie

[hooha]

lol

ok, i get the impression people are pretty fanatical about water changes here. I'll definitely work on some system to make water changes fit into my setup and get into the mentality now that I'll be doing daily water changes when I get my fish.

But I'm not convinced that daily - or especially multi-daily - water changes are an absolute unless you're trying to raise discus to sell or show. Here's an example of people who IMO have beautiful tanks and have discus thriving without daily water changes:
http://aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/mytank/index.html
Critiquing the fish - yeah the eyes may not be perfectly small, the shape may not be perfectly round, and the size may not be 10 inches, but IMO - so what?

I guess my perspective is different than some here. I'd rather see imperfect or even stunted discus in a planted tank rather than perfect discus in a BB. So I'm not looking for perfection, I'm just looking to have fun watching them thrive in a planted tank. If I need more water changes for them to look healthy and happy, I'm going to do that. It's not necessary for me to make multi-daily water changes for what I want out of the hobby, I know that already.

I'm just trying to learn a bit more before jumping in, and I am learning quite a bit, so thanks everyone again. I'm setting up the planted tank first and letting it establish for a few months before even thinking about getting discus, so I'll keep learning for the time being.

[jn4u]

I from time to time just change water to a empty bucket throw a net. And the back to the aquarium. Yes it's horrible, and why? guess!

I love this, you need waterchange every day statement. In my planted community tanks I change water 1 time every week 30% of the water volym, yes it's work very fine.

It's not possible to state that you need to change this or that. It's depend on food, fish weight, plants, filters etc. If you are skilled fish keeper before and don't mess things up then you will find discus not that hard to keep.

[ronrca]

I'd rather see imperfect or even stunted discus in a planted tank rather than perfect discus in a BB. Well, imo, Id rather not see 'imperfect' or stunted discus at all, be it planted or bb! Raising juvenile discus require clean water ie. wc's. Simple! Otherwise they will be stunted. This has been experienced first hand by many of us when we also first started. Adult discus do not require as many wc's however nitrates should be monitored and also kept fairly low. If they are not kept low, even adult discus will be stressed, not at ease or dis-eased also called diseased!

If you are already cleaning the tank, why not do a quick wc? I actually clean the tanks while the tanks are draining/filling!

Planted tanks are a little different for various reasons on how it is setup. I would never recommend putting discus smaller than 4.5-5" in a planted tank. Some people are happy with stunted discus and they are entitled to their opinion. I have tried small discus in a planted tank and they stayed small. I have tried less wc's with small discus and they stayed small. I have tried daily, 50%+ wc's with small discus and they grow beautifully! ;)

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm just looking to have fun watching them thrive in a planted tank

I think you'll have to settle for having fun watching them survive in a planted tank :-\

[Kevin63]

I just started my first Discus tank 5 months ago ... It still amazes me how much they eat and how much waste they produce everyday ... people always admire my fish and ask why the tank is BB with nothing but fish, I tell them to come back in 4 hours and check the bottom! :-X
then they understand!

[Keystonediscus]

All very good advice. Bare bottom is the way to Go I swear by it. saves alot of time and aggrivation

[htsou]

I have checked serveral discus boards including other country(Malaysia, HongKong, China, Holland). Almost everybody is telling a frequent WC a must.. I love to see my discus to swin in those plants but I prefer my discus grow up healthy! If you want a planted tank, you should have a separate tank wihout any discus in it.. you still can see other fish swimming in the plants! ;)

[tiger]

Fully agreed, PT and Discus dun goes well. I had since removed my Discus from PT and now in BB with almost daily water changes and see how they grows, except for those stunted adult. BB is the way to go.