A newcomer here....

[António Vitor]

Hello my first post here!
:)

I am one of those that keep a lot of plants...with discus.
;)

I really try to achieve a 27ºC (80-81ºF) water temp, that way my discus are allways healthy, and most important for the water quality...my plants are healthy!

My system
250 liters 150x40x40 (cm) aquarium
2x150W HCI (related with HQI but with more lumens, and less colour temperature desviation over the lamp life), 4200 kelvins.
CO2 (20-30 ppm)
NO3 5 ppm
PO4 0.1-0.5 ppm
enough traces

I do believe that discus can sustain 27ºC with no prejudicial effect, Discus even get better than with more higher temperatures, most tropical plants survive well at 27ºC.
;)

my tank...
http://plantasmolhadas.no.sapo.pt/temp/24%20abril.jpg

a lot of algaes...I know, but this problem is getting care of...
you will see in a few days time (I hope)

then I post what was used against the algaes (if that works)
;)
Regards from Portugal!
António Vitor

[ronrca]

;) ;D :thumbsup:

Very good looking tank Antonio. Looks like you really know what you are doing. The parameters are excellant! Keep up the great work and you may post many more pics! ;D

[António Vitor]

Thank you ronrca!
I will try to post more photos!
and some closer-up of my discus!

I have 2 discos with 2 years of age (one is small, I didn't knew anything about discus 2 years ago, now I know that more discus sometimes is better, less problems...agressions...).

the other discus (4) I raise them up, from 2-cm of size (20-30 days old) to the size of the small 2 years discus (5 months after).
:)

I also have a tiny discus (the same batch of the others), but was not raised by me, I think he is the only survivor from that batch (besides the other four that I managed to get into a good size and shape).

still small, and I think it is hard to recuperate the lost time...
but it will survive
;)
So I have 7 discus ...but one doesn't count..
hehehe

Regards from Portugal!
António Vitor

[ChloroPhil]

Hello Antonio, welcome to Simplydiscus. I'm glad you made the trip over here, it's always good to have another planted discus keeper of your caliber around here. A word of warning though, don't travel too far from this forum alone, the bare-bottom fanatics just might get you! ;D

Would you please tell the folks here how you went about planning your aquarium and aquascape?

Best,
Phil

[António Vitor]

Thank You for the welcome Phil!
:)

I do my aquascape by try and error, I do not plan ahead.
But I do follow some guidelines like:


-I only plant clusters of the same species!
:) too much species in a tiny space looks bad!


-I reject simetry, I allways try to reject simetry, natural is not simetric, artificiality is man made (simetry)


-Adjacent plants are usually chosen by the beauty of the contrast produced...sometimes looks good, sometimes doesn't look good (try and error)


-I try to build something collective, the parts give something to the all, to do this I follow some rules.
For example producing something similar to a triangule, convex, etc...
sometimes I reject the usual geometric shape, and lose free my creativity.
;)


-there must be only one focal point, I usually break this rule...and usually make a lot more focal points..
;)


-Use the Golden ratio for the focal point:
it is said that any geometrical shape that has the Golden Ratio in it is the most pleasing to look at of those types of figures.

if we divide the tank with the golden ratio in mind we get:
A=size of the tank until G (golden ratio)
B=size of the tank after G (golden ratio)

| | |
| | |
| | |
|------------ |-----------------------|
A G B

B/A should be 1,618.


-The most important thing is the health of all the plants...the better the plant, the better the aquascape (and usually less algae).


Regards from Portugal
António vitor

[Don_Lee]

Welcome Antonio, your tank looks very nice and I like your thoughts about aquascaping. My goal has always been to make something that looks like nature in my tanks.........which is much more than what it sounds as we all know! LOL, glad to have you here!


Don ;D

[António Vitor]

thanks Don!

I do try to make a confortable (and beautifull) home for my fish and plants...
if the end result is different from the nature...
to bad...

In nature it's impossible to find more than 1-2 species (fish or plants) in 1 square meter...
;)

Nevertheless a tank with plants (even with lots of species) is still remarkable close to nature, there is some ECO "communication" between fish and plants... one eats what the other excrete...

I can sustain an healthy tank with fewer of those tedious water changes, and still get healthy fish!
I also can feed a lot more!
;)

BTW I have some eleocharis and glossostigma (max recomended 24ºC and 26ºC), and still doing great with my discus!
;D

Regards from Portugal!
António Vitor

[António Vitor]

The algae issue is getting better every day!
I still have some algaes, but receding every day!

http://plantasmolhadas.no.sapo.pt/images/intermediate.jpg
this photo was taken with flash!

I tried to mantain a good level of macros (Nitrogen (NO3), phosphorus (PO4), potassium, sulfates, the same levels that Phil recomends), enough traces, and...
NOT DOING ANY WATER CHANGES FOR AWHILE!

I believe there is something secreted by some plants (not all) that inibits the growth and reproduction of algae.

I still need to fill some open spacew on my aquascape, and I need a little more glosso to fill the foreground, but in a few days time...

Regards from Portugal!
António Vitor

[ChloroPhil]

Thanks for the replies Antonio! I've started getting some brush algae in my tank and am going to give the "fewer WC" method a go just to see what happens. I've packed the tank full of stemplants and have ramped up the CO2 and am ready for nature to take its course.

Best,
Phil

[António Vitor]

I don't know if this is because:

-allelopathy
-less free soluble iron (increase in the pearling oxidize the Iron)
-increase in the free oxigen radical...

I really don't know, but this usually work!
;)

increasing the water changes might increase the soluble iron value (that depends on the water we use), but might also decrease the allelopathic elements...too much variables to be shure of anything!
;)

Regads!
António Vitor

[ChloroPhil]

Hey, we'll find out soon, won't we. :)

[EDGE]

Looking good, Antonio

What is that big looking stem plant to the left?

I am keeping a lot of plants not recommanded for discus in my tank as well. That was one of the goal with the tank; to experiment which plant can handle the 82 f water.

When I get lazy with the water change, hair algae kicks in.
I am going to be more persistant in the near future to see if bi-daily water change and non Fe micro nutrient will reduce the hair algae. I am still waiting for my bottle of botanica micro to come in from the LFS.

[ari_wh]

WOW!!!! That tank is absolutely stunning!!!

I just love how everything works together.... The discus would love it too, I bet....

Regards, Ari :)

[António Vitor]

Thank you ari_wh and Edge!

I am trying to improve it...I hope it will get even better
;)
I will post the evolution.

The big stem plant in the left is Eusteralis stellata.

Some infomation... my water temp is now at 79ºF, it usually is higher...it depends on the time of the day, when the MH lamps are on the water is warmer...
;)

just like in the amazon basin, a little day fluctuation of 2-3ºF degrees...

Regards!
António Vitor

[António Vitor]

When I get lazy with the water change, hair algae kicks in.
I am going to be more persistant in the near future to see if bi-daily water change and non Fe micro nutrient will reduce the hair algae. I am still waiting for my bottle of botanica micro to come in from the LFS

That doesn't happen with me...
every aquarium is different!
different size, different water, to many variables to "invent" a silver bullet!
:)

My Fe supplement doesn't produce any hair algae, only PO4 in abundance, usually I control the PO4 quantities with A good level of NO3 (+/- 5 ppm), but that is in my case...

Increasing water changes in my aquarium don't prevent more algaes (my experience is exactly the contrary), why is that I don't know...
But that is with my water, my water might have lot of dissolved Iron (or something else), I don't have an iron test to prove that...
;)

Regards!
António Vitor

[jules]

Beautiful tank Antonio!

[António Vitor]

Thanks Jules...

I will keeping posting the evolution..
:)

Yersterday I catched some portuguese freshwater shrimps (50), in a small lake nearby my house, I put all of them on my tank.
;)

It's incredible how a discus is peacefull, a colleage of hobby (catch the shrimps with me) give some of the same shrimp to his lake malawi cichlids...
they endure only 5 seconds..
;)

Regards!
António Vitor

All I can say is GORGEOUS!!! :o :o :o That is one heck of a stunning tank, Antonio. Bravo to you! ;)

[stygian7]

I really try to achieve a 27ºC (80-81ºF) water temp, that way my discus are allways healthy, and most important for the water quality...my plants are healthy!


81 F seems a little cool for discus? I keep mine at 87F and as far as I know, most other discus keepers run similar temps.
-Kevin

[ChloroPhil]

I keep my tank at 82* F and eveyone seems just fine to me.

[stygian7]

To think of all the money I've been wasting on electricity for those extra 5 degrees. Maybe I'll drop the temp a few degrees; anyone else run temps in the low 80s?

[EDGE]

I keep it at 82f. There is a huge variety of plants that can be kept at 82f.

I always thought high temp is use to encourage discus to eat and reduce the illness it can get.

[António Vitor]

Thanks Fry Girl!

At 80ºF there are no visible problems with my discus...
:)
(my first discus are allmoust in the 3 year of existence)


Some of those nasty parasites that attack discus, don't tolerate well high temperatures, that might had created this myth...

Average amazonian temperature is 27ºC (80ºF), discus live in amazon...
because I got this information I ended up throwing away that "discus love heat" rule.
:)

someone (years ago) went to brazil and tested some parameters of the water, the results were above the average 27ºC...I guess you know the end result...
promoting this myth into Fact...
(taking water samples from the water surface, at daylight hours, in a especific season, giving an impression of normality in a big outlier...)

Discus can sustain higher temperatures easily, and some illness don't...
that is true, and that is one of the few "medication" I use...

But because my water is excellent (plants), I usually do not need such procedures....

Regards!
António Vitor

[shalu]

I keep mine at 82-83F via a digital controller. No plants complain at that temp, some do at 86F.

[stir-fry]

I will never get tired of looking at your tank Antonio.. in fact, it's my desktop picture right now :)

any more pictures to share?

[António Vitor]

Thanks Stir fry!
:)

I will post more photos when the aquascape change a little...
that is a promess!

Regards!
António Vitor

[António Vitor]

I said previously!

I tried to mantain a good level of macros (Nitrogen (NO3), phosphorus (PO4), potassium, sulfates, the same levels that Phil recomends), enough traces, and...
NOT DOING ANY WATER CHANGES FOR AWHILE!

I believe there is something secreted by some plants (not all) that inibits the growth and reproduction of algae.

I found that this was true, too much true for my own sake (and my plants health)...
:)

I got some plants amazingly well, and other plants...starting to die (after this test period without water changes)!

all the nutrientes were in good levels, só it must be something else...
yes most algae died but some of my plants are getting tough times!

We must find the equlibrium, not to much time bettween water changes...
:)
and allways good nutrient levels!

Regards!
António Vitor

[António Vitor]

Well I have some previous aquascape attempts...
http://plantasmolhadas.no.sapo.pt/temp/AQUARIO.jpg

http://plantasmolhadas.no.sapo.pt/temp/fullaquarium.jpg

this photos are older than 1 year...
:)

Because my aquarium room is not large enough, I had to edit this two photos, joining 2 separate photos...
I need some wide angle lenses...
;)

Hope you like it...

Regards from Portugal!
António Vitor

Wow, nice picture. Yes, I believe you're correct AV. A lot of plants give off some respiration that dissolves algae instantly. The key is to have a heck of a filtration system to "sweep" out those gases and also to have plants that absorb those gases. I believe that is the trick, although I haven't yet begin to fully switch my barebottom tank to a gorgeous aquascape like yours. But it's soon coming. ;)

**Angie**

[Howie_W]

Hi Antonio,

Compliments on a beautiful tank! :bounce:

I'm particularly interested in the glossostigma which looks quite nice along the surface of the substrate. Do you have any issues using this plant, while cleaning the substrate? Also, I'm guessing at 27c, you're probably close to the maximum temp. for keeping them looking good. I'm curious to know if you have any experience growing them at higher temps?

Kind regards.

Howie

[António Vitor]

Thanks!

:)
yes I have glosso on my discus tank for more than 2 years!
they grow well...I gues they would be faster at lower temps, but this plant is able to grow well.

my tank is not that tall so I usually use my hands to clean the glosso...
the biggest problem is algaes, attached to the substract...more glosso less algae.
;)

cleaning is not a issue, it's easier to clean a substract full of glosso than a substract without them!

Another photo...
I used a increase contrast filter to improve the picture...
I think iit's not a cheat, it is closer to what I see than for instance any photo with flash!

what is your's opinion on this subject?
http://plantasmolhadas.no.sapo.pt/temp/DSCF0040.jpg

Regards!
António vitor

[ChloroPhil]

Howie,

When I was using glosso in my tank before I had no problems with cleaning and all that. My experiences match Antonio's, the more glosso (plant mass) the less algae. Glosso's a fast growing nutrient sponge once it's started.

Best,
Phil

[stygian7]

How far above the water do you suspend your lamps? I am also using HID lamps and have been trying to figure out the best hight for growing plants, yet avoiding algae problems. Also, I noticed that the lamps are aimed towards the back of the tank slightly; is that just for asthetics?
-Kevin

[António Vitor]

asthetics?
no...
:)

it's the way my reflector give off light, with this inclination there is less light spill outside the tank.

My MH is 15-20 cms above the water more or less...


well, I took another photo...

my discus were trying to figure out what I was doing...well I was taking their's picture!
;)

http://plantasmolhadas.no.sapo.pt/images/macro1discus.jpg