Wild Discus

[kalawai]

Hello,

I was wondering why people are still getting wild discus--if their enviroments are still getting destroyed? If people are breeding them all over the world--you would think that we wouldn't have to keep getting them from from the wild.......
If people specialize in wild forms(breeding) then we can keep a stock to add to the cultured forms-- if we need to bring in new blood.
I can't see-- that we need to keep on bringing in wild forms---won't this hurt the true forms by overfishing or overharvesting the populations that are already there...
Sorry, if I'm going on a rant--but it just seems very wrong to me--if we keepers can't supply the demand on our own.
Personally, I like the hybrids or the cultured forms better--they do well in our tanks. They have not tasted the water of they'er homelands.
I would like to get Heckles--but I'm scared to try them and if people could breed them and make them used to life in tanks--then great.

[Tad]

kalawai,
Some interesting reading and links:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=10525

regards,
Tad

[kalawai]

Thank you for the info---wow!!!---as is I thought.

[Fishin dude]

Why is the sky blue and the ocean deep?
I totally dissagree with your assumption about discus going extict from over harvest.
I personally collect the different wild strains and will continue to do so just like collectors in a multitude of other countries. :bomb:

Better to see them in my tanks than being buried under some turned over soil and asphalt in preparation for "corporation-takeover-of-the-Amazonia", and/or under a sleuth of spilled petroleum (and other various) oils, in that matter.

[kalawai]

Well-you can disagree-but do you breed them? are you going to breed them?
I just find that---I would hate to see these fish and their enviroment go the way of other endangered to extinct animals --because of people being greedy--so we can have something in our tanks.
Don't get all mad--its an honest observation. Its not only Discus--
There are signs of overfishing--not just the Amazon River systems that are in trouble.
I can understand---why we all like the wild forms. I've even said that I would love a Heckel or two--but--if we can't propogate them--there's a problem.
I did read that Cardinal tetras seem to do well--with all the harvesting that is done on them--but here again--what's is really going on with their habitat?? Can these fish really keep up with the demand?
Look, I'm really not a tree hugger or a PETA type.....I do go fishing and eat meat and own other animals--but I think we really need to protect these animals and their enviroments if we are to keep these beautiful fish.
If I could buy my fish from breeders that practices a little conservation--I would feel better about this tiny world we live in.

[Tad]

IMO Kalawai raises a valid concern as a discus enthusiast!, and is a great question to ask on an educational/informative forum like Simply.

Kalawai, Wilds have been successfully bred as one can see in this months "Member Profile" on Dave Webber in the General section. I see from his pictures he has crossed RSG to RSG and has produced some fantastic offspring along with many other beautiful wild crosses to domestics. You got to remember all discus have their roots from the wilds and wilds are still used today to add vigor to ones personal stock and to hopefully develop new and exciting specimens.
IMO its the collectors/hobbyist who acquire wild discus,who will be the best defense of protecting the amazonia enviroment. IMO by acquiring the wild discus the local economy is boosted by these fishermen rather than those same fishermen, becoming agriculturalist or industrialist who would strip the enviorment and pollute the places where the discus come from. So it will not be the discus harvesters and their customers who will cause the extinction of our wilds it will happen IMO by corporate Amazonia.

I too have a very nice collection of Wilds and will continue to collect and hope to successfully breed them.

best regards,
Tad

[Fishin dude]

Tad,
Very well said!
None who are serious fish keepers would like to see the wild populations devastated.
Maybe I am a little greedy....I should have my 10 fish school of wild Peruvians by Saturday LOL :bounce2:

Yep! Right on the nail, Tad! :thumbsup:

Without the usefulness of our collectivity and the correct tools (knowledge), we will not be able to successfully breed Discus and to keep its existence. This is why I said in my first post that many fish (and exotic plants) are buried under soil and asphalt due to the "Corporate-Takeover-of-the-Amazonia." Fishermen of the past are currently learning a better method of keeping their environment clean. This is good.

F.D.: Cool..Cool!! :thumbsup:

[fishfarm]

If you want heckels they are going to be wild caught, So few people have successfully bred them, Would be a great project to undertake. Make you famous! LOL. Ken

[kalawai]

I've had F1's and they turned out to be really big and colorful. ::)
A Heckel cross--but then not Heckel. It would be really cool to breed only Heckels--or other wild forms it should be what breeders want to do.
I know that people are going to keep getting wilds from the source--but I would hope that they would consider the other options--ie breed them.
I only had the one F1 cross--I'm still much a newbie.
Now, I have Blue Diamonds and Red Spotted Diamonds--and still have a couple of those F1's--they are 6 years old now. ;D

[Fishin dude]

I would like there to be size restrictions on wild caught discus.....under 3" body length release.
They do not have as good a survival rate being shipped by 3rd world countries, such as Brazil.
They put size restrictions on Red Fish for commercial and sport fishermen...from what I have read, the stock made a rebound from depletion.
Importers would be the individuals to demand this restriction....if they all don't get together on this...it won't happen. :banghead:

[1977]

Never before has so much care and respect been given to the environment as it is now, and it just keeps getting better. I agree that we need to control our actions but discus being taken from the wild is just one example of many controversial things going on between man and nature. I feel that progress will continue to made by studying these fish and other creatures as well. With the technology we have now even if an environment was virtually destroyed we can reproduce and clean it up with the help of mother nature. I think many people abuse the things God gave us but in the end they are here for us to use.

[kalawai]

I agree that the good things God gave us are for us to use--but not to abuse.

[wildthing]

There are billions of wild discus in Amazonia, they are a very successful species. The greed that affects them & their habitat is the greed ( lust?) for gold, that poisons the environment with heavy metals during extraction. Fishing for discus can go on for ever, there is no shortage of them, but habitat destruction cannot.
Get rid of your gold watch & your chains & rings & then maybe their habitat will have a chance, it is supply & demand & I bet anyting that all of us here have some gold on them somewhere & so we are part of the problem too.

[kalawai]

Hummmm
Just like oil:)

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16511

Best of luck to all the wild life left in the Amazonia. This is the reason why many species of wild insects are spreading out all over the earth. Wait until we see the hot weather coming this summer and the swarms of various insects that were not known to us but will be the culprit to spread various viruses.

Good point, David, and I agree with you. It is because of silicon, silver and other precious raw materials that the corporate greed is apparently destroying the earth. These raw materials are supplying the militaries all over the world (to encapsulate the poisonous "Uranium" and what else more that is a threat to our existence).

[mikeos]

Fishing isnt the problem its logs and mining, if we stop buying fish then they have no further ecconomic value to the country and therefore no incentive to protect the environment.

[kalawai]

I agree without the rain forest WE are in a whole heap of trouble --not just the Discus and the other fauna and flora.

The other Rainforests in other parts of the world are in dire straits due to logging, mineral mining, don't forget cattle ranches, and just people in general.

There is signs of global warming already taking place-- Whale Skate Island a small sandy shoal Northwest of the Hawaiian islands has disappeared under the ocean-- due to the fact that oceans are rising--this, of course it took 20 years.

It may not be much--but it's happening--and there is nothing we can do about it now. It's out of our hands---if we try to improve our ways, it might not happen as fast. I'm not sure- our kind around the world will change--they just want, what we have and if it costs the rainforests--it will happen if those governments don't stop the rape of the worlds lungs.
That is a fact--sad to say. :'(

[daveycrockett]

Corporate "greed" is what makes the world go round. I bet the logging and mining do alot more for the people than the collecting of discus does. Although I do believe they should practice conservation. They need to find a happy medium. I dont believe collecting wilds is wrong as long as it is regulated and the fish are protected from over harvesting. I would love to breed heckels succesfully! Isee it now -David McNabb,The Father of the wild tank breed heckel. Fame and fortune here I come!!!LOL

Are there any regulations on wild caught discus or is it grab as many as you can to fill your bags?