Are my bacteria dead?

[marcw]

I'm hoping I'm not about to have a catastrophe.

My amonia levels have shot up from 0 to 1ppm. And no amount of water changes or added mediacations or doses of Cycle seems to be making any difference.

First of all, I believe what I've added to the water changes the Ammonia to a non-toxic form. If that's correct, I assume it would still show up in the Ammonia test, but (hopefully) not be dangerous.....?

Before this, I had recently placed a sponge into my filter and I'm now worried it might've been too big. Water throughput slowed down a bit, and water slowed down as it moved through the biological filter too. If there's NOT good ciculation around that filter, do the bacteria die? I'm wondering if this is the cause of the ammonia spike.

I've removed the sponge now, and water is pumping through as normal, but now I'm worried that I'm just pumping dead bacteria into the tank.

Should I be panicing by now?

[Carol_Roberts]

Slowing the filter will NOT kill your bacteria.

Do you have chloramines now?

Dead fish or rotting food hiding in the tank or filter?

[marcw]

Good to hear that I don't have a bacteria graveyard. :) But I DO think dead fish could well be the answer!

I've had the discus for about 4 weeks now. At the same time I got 11 Neon Tetras. Now I have none (the tetras, I mean - not the discus). And I've only been able to find about 3 or 4 of the bodies So, not sure if they've been eaten, or are maybe rotting away in some unseen nook and/or cranny somewhere.

The discus are looking very happy and content, BTW.

And chloramines...... Um, not sure. The water itself is pure rain-water (with a bit of Prime), so if rain-water has 'em, and if Prime fixes that sort of thing, they should be well under control.

But can you have 'non-dangerous' Ammonia? Ammonia that appears in a test, but is nothing to worry about?

[RyanH]

Chloramine is added to city water and serves same purpose as Chlorine. If you are using rainwater then obviously you will not have to worry about it. I would be a bit concerned with pollutants. Especially if you are downwind from any urban areas or industry. Just a thought.

[Nightowl]

You can get false ammonia readings if you use Ammo Lock or something like it and are testing ammonia with a kit that uses a Nessler reagent(the test liquid).
So, you can get false ammonia readings.

Don't want to call ammonia non-dangerous, but I believe it can be controlled in different ways. If your PH is 6.8 or less, and your test kit is accurate, then the reading you get is the level of ammonium, not ammonia. This form is less harmful to the fish.
Here's another point: pour some Cycle into a test vial and test IT for ammonia...you might stop using it.

My own remedy for ammonia besides w/c(which is a very temporary fix when there is a problem) is to keep PH around 6.5 and add zeolite or a poly pad to the filter...it works. I have read that people feel if you use ammonia removing substances in a filter your tank wont cycle properly. I have never found that to be the case. After all, you're trying to get rid of some excess ammonia...how can removing some be harmful?

One last thing... discus are very strong fish!

hth and good luck J.T.

[hexed]

Marc,
Yes you will get a false reading if you use ammonia lock liquid. That does not remove ammonia it only turns it into "safe" ammonia but the ammonia is still in your tank. I had used it when I first started thinking it would eliminate the ammonia. When I tested it my levels were very high and was told it is a false reading. Do water changes. I did 50% and the levels slowly went away. If you used anything like methyblu, that will kill your bacteria and your ammonia level will go high. I don't recommend using ammonia lock liquid in any tank. If I have a problem with ammonia I will put ammonia reducer (looks like white carbon) into my filters and rinse it til the water runs clear. That will help eliminate most of the ammonia along with water changes until the tank gets back on it's feet.

[marcw]

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice!

I've just done a 60% water change, and while doing that some small, white bits of stuff covered in a fluffy sort of fungus were disturbed and floated around a bit - could be the remains of the missing Tetras! Anyway, they've been scooped out, and the gravel vacuumed. And I've added a dose of 'Bio-Booster'. Things are looking nice 'n' clean! :)

My water naturally has a Ph level of 6.2, and chemical pollutants I'm sure wouldn't be a problem - nice, clean area we live in - though the tank might have the odd dead frog and rotting leaves in it. Though an Ammonia test on THAT water shows a level of 0.

Even after the big water change and general clean-up, the Ammonia levels in my tank are reading 1ppm - same as before. But, as Nightowl suggested, maybe it's Ammonium and not Ammonia. Fish are still looking very happy.

I'm not sure what the 'Ammonia cure' was that I used (I got it in a basket of fish goodies I won in a raffle and got my wife to chuck it in while I was at work - worrying about what I might find when I got home). They were blocks of something that were supposed to convert the Ammonia to a less toxic form - which maybe it has done.

So...... I plan to wait a day and check the readings tomorrow night. If they're still high, I've got a bag of the stuff that looks like white carbon - Aquaclear Ammonia Remover. So I'll try that.

Ohh - just remembered I haven't checked the filter for the missing Tetras (though I DO use a pre-filter sponge). Maybe the Ammonia Culprit is hiding in there!!

Thanks again, everyone!

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Good

Also you should keep water changes a lot also add " prime". The prime made by seachem is good stuffs to safe for your aquarium.

Ammonia , nitrite & nitiate will be gone in few days!

Don't add any more fish or etc for now. You need work on your tank first clear before you can add more fish or etc.



HTH

Duncan


NWCD

[Nightowl]

Hello, a quick follow up: at a PH of 6.2 any "ammo" reading you get is definitely ammonium. When you use an item that converts ammonia into its"less toxic form", it converts it to ammonium. SO, at your PH there is no real need to use any "ammonia cure". Go with the white zeolite pouch to remove the rest.....

Also, some "bio-boost" stuff, if real live bacteria, can be impaired by Prime, Ammo-lock, etc. Read the fine print just to be sure. The less stuff we add to the water, the better for the fish. good luck! J.T.

[marcw]

Woo Hoo!! Just did another Ammonia test, and it's now .5ppm! Things are heading in the right direction!!

A very educational experience for me. And now I'll know what to do NEXT time. Thanks everyone!!

[jrpatter]

btw in the wild discus eat neon and cardinal tetras. remember they are a cichlid just like an oscar. If the fish can fit in its mouth then it will prolly eat it :)


john

[stygian7]

Sounds like maybe you put the tetras in with your expensive discus without a quarantine. IMO, not worth the risk. I've had scores of tetras die in quarantine-who knows what they were infected with. Also possible that your discus chomped on them, but I thought I'd give you the quarantine warning just to be safe.

BTW, if you need advice on quarantine, check out this post by Al:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1025

[Howie_W]

Marc,

I agree with Stygian about the possibility of not having a long enough quarantine period.

Also, you don't mention if your tank is bare bottom, or planted; I only keep neon's in a heavily planted tank, and even as such, that's no guarantee your Discus won't snack on them. In fact, I've found that keeping neons with Discus will provide a way of culling your Neon population to a point where only the fastest fish will survive...and ofcourse good hiding places helps.

Howie

[marcw]

Ahh, yes. You could well be right about the quarantine. Not planning on any more fish for a while, but next time......

It's a lightly planted tank with gravel and some driftwood. I never saw the discus chase the tetras, but I can't think what else happened to 'em. Plus, that water's pretty warm ,so I expect their little bodies break up pretty easily.

Over a week since the Ammonia problem started and it's still there - wavering around the .5 mark (though I'm led to believe this probably Ammonium). Frequent water changes, and addition of Prime haven't made much difference. Ammonia was at 1ppm a week ago.

So tonight I've added an AquaClear Ammonia remover insert to the filter - little white bits of gravel. See what happens.

I'd like to get that reading back to 0. Toxic or not.