IS AN RO UNIT A NEED???

[Jono]

i've gotten into discus only 2 months.. having problems taking care of them. just learnt about an R/O unit... is it a "NEED" to purchase one of these??
currently my discus are dark, hiding and not reacting good to food. i have a white discus thats lately been growing black marks on his forehead and body. i have a planted tank, (only now i regret the gravel and plants) what would be the best way to achieve a BB tank without harming my discus.

[RandalB]

Jono,

Welcome to Simply! Sorry to see your first post is a problem. You've definately come to the right place though...

The only way to determine if you need an RO unit or not is to check your tap water. Most people don't need RO units to keep discus. There are exceptions of course. Check your water parameters and post back here. We'll see if we can determine what you need.

Check: (Both Tank and Tap water)
TDS (Total Dissolved solids)
pH
kH (Carbonate Hardness)
gH (General Hardness)
NitrAte
NitrIte
Ammonia
Temperature

You also need to check if your municipality is using Chlorine or Chloramine unless you're on a well.

How big is your tank and what is your water change routine?

How Old are your fish and what size?

What's your stocking density? How many fish for your tank?

It may be that your fish are not being effected by water conditions at all, there are lots of things that might make your fish act the way they are: Disease, fear due to surroundings, etc

Let's get some more info and see if we all can figure out what's bothering your fish.

DO NOT buy an RO unit until we know more, if you have young fish, there is an 85% or better chance that you don't need one yet.

Converting to BB is best done by moving the fish to a different tank and removing the gravel. Clean the inside of the old tank, refill and replace the fish. You can get a couple of sponge filters started now in your current tank.

Everyone feel free to jump in here, let's figure out the problem!

RandalB

[Jono]

ok sorry to say i have jumped into discus without knowing enough.
can u please tell me the essential test kits i need? at what levels?
KH
GH
nitrate
nitrite
ammonia
temperature
i have a 3 foot tank. unfortunately i have no spare tanks to put the discus in while i convert the tank to BB. would it be ok to store the discus in a smaller barrel i use to age my water? i do a 25% and a %50 wc per week.
my discus look like theyve lost weight, and are growing smaller in size. one seems to be swimming up and down the glass, which he doesnt usually do. im scared they might not be in good enough condition to survive while i get my water measurements right. what could i do???

[Howie_W]

Hi Jono,

Welcome to the forum. Let's get the basics taken care of first;

1. You can use your barrel to put your fish in while you get the tank cleaned out...make sure the temperature matches the temp. in your tank. Your tank should be thoroughly cleaned, walls wiped down etc., before setting back up.

2. Water changes. You need to change the water daily...aprox. 50%. Most people keep the temp. set between 82-86 F.

3. Feeding. Your fish need a balanced diet. Juveniles especially need to be getting about 4 meals a day.

4. Test kits. You should plan on getting the following kits; pH kH, gH ammonia, nitrite. All are available at any lfs or on-line. As soon as you've done this, let use know your readings.


Can you also answer a few questions?

1. How many gallons does your tank hold? You mentioned it was 3 feet. However, there are a wide variety of 3 foot tanks.

2. How many Discus do you have and how old are they?

3. What are you feeding them?

All of the answers to your questionscan be found on this forum. Please take some time to read through the information here. You can also use the search function to look up a specific topic, and then ofcourse come back with more questions.


Howie

[Jean]

Heyya Jono~

I used the master kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals That will do it all except the TDS-that you can use a monitor for (Randal sells those)

The kit is here:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4454&R=7776&N=2004+113074+ 113565&in_merch=1

You can also find it at other on line stores I am sure as well.

HTH
Jean ;D 8)

[Jono]

Tank info...
44 gallon tank.
i have 3 discus. im guessing 2x 6-7 cms 1x 8-9 cms
i feed them a variety of frozen brine shrimp,frozen blood worms, discus menu, frozen beefheart, i tried feeding them live black worms they love it, but should that only be fed as a treat? the worms kinda look dirty like they'll harm the discus. i try to feed tetra bits, but they dont touch them.
only recently they all look in terrible condition. white dots are appearing on fins, dark color,not eating. hiding
i need to get my act together with the water measurements, but how can i keep them alive while im doing this, it could take days. i dont wanna lose all three discus.

[Jono]

Above are the discus when they were still healthy.
below is a bad shot of how skinny his getting.

[Cosmo]

Jono, looks and sounds like you could have a disease issue here, possibly brought on by water quality, possibly brought in inside the live worms.

Think you need to seek the advise of the resident disease guru... Carol Roberts. Surprised she hasn't weighed in on this one already, you might try IMing her.

good luck, beautiful fish
Jim

[Jono]

i have taken a dramatic step.... put all my fish in a water ageing barral, while the tank has been clean out for BB.... im quite lost on my essential needs... and dont think my sick discus in the barrel will survive... :'(

[Carol_Roberts]

The black specks on the white fish is pepper - a common reaction to stress and illness. Most juveniles eventually do get sick if kept in graveled, planted tanks with only two water changes per week. What type of filter do you have? Is it full of decomposing fish food? Be sure to rinse the filter in dechlorinated water too.

Do daily water changes of at least 25%. Clean water helps appetite.

Do you actually see them eat? Have you seen any long strings of mucus hanging from the vent. They may need a course of metronidazole for intestinal flagellates (see Most Common Treatments in the disease section).

If they don't make it at least you are on the right track. Get six more youngsters and try again.

[Howie_W]

Hi Jono,

How are your fish doing? Have the fish been placed back in the cleaned out tank yet? Please keep us updated.

Howie

[Jono]

hey guys,
while the fish were in the barral... they somehow become much more healthy, maybe because the water condition was easier to maintain, and the enclosed walls kept them out of stress.. they have grown more stronger and react better to food.. the white fish has lost his black pepper spots... i've juss placed them back into the tank. they are doin ok. except i noticed white spots on the white fish's right fin.
since in the barral it was enclosed and they seemed less stressful, should i get some backdrop wallpaper to cover the tank up??
im using an internal aqua ball filter... i dunno if its doing a good job though
though the fish are hiding behind the filter now..

[Jono]

this is what the tank looked like before the change....

[Jono]

ANOTHER THING....
i had cardinal tetras in the tank with the discus before... and now ive seperated them.. because the tetras are growing white spots all over their bodies.. would this effect my discus??

[Howie_W]

Hi Jono,

It looks like you've taken a step in the right direction. Your fish are suffering from a combination of poor water quality and stress.

I think your next step should be to ditch that filter you are using an switch to a Hydro Sponge, and a hang on the back filter such as the Aqua Clear.

Some other things that will help your fish would be to add some rock salt; aprox. 1-2 table spoons per every 10/gallons., and also to temporarily raise the temp. in your tank a few degrees to 88 F. This will help clear their intestines, and allow easier breathing. Also if your going to do this do not feed them. Instead perform your water change, and then add the disolved salt and slowly raise the temp.

As for your tank, reduced lighting also helps...you no longer have a planted tank, so a more subdued atmosphere can help reduce stress.

Howie

[Carol_Roberts]

You need test kits - at least for ammonia - especially if you decide to change filters.

I still wonder about water quality - especially since the tetras have white spots on fins

[Jono]

thanks for the tips....

a question... im currently performing water changes with buckets and its such a hassle.. and i was recommended a pond pump??
would this pump be suitable for WC's for my 3 foot tank?
http://www.aquariaonline.com.au/prod42.htm

[Jono]

so the test kits i "REALLY" need are
nirate
ammonia
kh

anything else? another thing im still kinda fuzzled about... is say i test the ammonia and it tells me a certain reading.. i dont know if its good or bad.. and if it is bad,... im still not sure how to fix the problem.. ??? ???

[Howie_W]

You need to be able to test the basic parameters of your water...including its pH.

Here's a good thread that talks about cycling your tank and what to shoot for; http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=7107

As for getting a pump, you need to buy one that is rated for a height that matches the number of feet you will be lifting the water into from the bottom of your holding tank to the top of your aquarium (the one you have listed is only rated for 1.5 meters so you might want at least the next size up).

Howie

[Carol_Roberts]

Get a medium or large pond pump from Walmart. The medium uses a hose with a 1/2 inch insisde diameter (python hose), the large a 3/4 inch (garden hose size). You want a pump that will fill your tank as quickly as possible without excessive turbulence. Personally I like python hoses - they remain supple and roll easily. You can buy 20 foot lengths called extensions. I buy 50 foot ones on sale, cut in half and use one to drain the the other to fill.

Any ammount of ammonia is too much. Keep doing water changes until ammonia is close to zero.

Buy a master test kit. You need test kits for pH, ammonia, GH, KH, NitrIte and NitrAte

[Jono]

the pump i ordered isnt available anymore.. does any of u guys kno any good cheap fish accesories online?? im from australia..

wat does it mean if my discus only come out to eat & swim when nobody is around.. and they hide in the corner if someone comes to close to the tank..

[Carol_Roberts]

Just not used to people yet. You want to give them a little bit of food every time you pass by. Soon they will run to front of tank to greet you ;D

[Howie_W]

Like Carol, I also use a pond pump that I purchased from Walmart. The company that manufactures them is called Beckett http://www.888beckett.com. If you do a search on-line, you'll find many places that cary pumps, and a variety of prices that are cheaper than the pet/fish supply places. One place you can start is http://marketexpo.com as I know they sell the Beckett pumps that Walmart carries here in the states.

Howie

[Jono]

but carol, its been a long time, theres a little bit of traffic around the tank.
with the wiping down your tank with paper towels..
are you suppose to use get the paper towel stick ur arm in the water and wipe the inside glass?
my marbarlo red, has like some white velvety patch growing off the back of his top fin. its not spots though. what could that be?
out of curiosity, roughly how much food do u feed discus each feeding session? i give about half a cube of beefheart between the 3 sometimes...
howie, i think i've decided to spend that extra money at the local aquarium, kuz i juss wanna start using it.. the lifting heavy water is getting to me.. thanks anyways

[Carol_Roberts]

Actually I use a sponge on a stick (sold in the kitchen supply section of grocery stores). I always wear sleevless shirts when cleaning the fish tanks ;D

When using paper towels (buy expensive ones that don't fall apart under water) you stick your arm all the way in the tank.

The patch sounds like a bacterial plaque. Should go away with daily water changes and clean enviornment.

[kaceyo]

For the price of a pump at the pet store,you could get the pump AND the criticle test kits you need.I'm on a budget so I like to get as much as I can for my money.All you have to do is be willin to put up with 1 more week of bucketing.JMO kACEYO

[Jono]

sponge on a stick, i'll look out for those..
i got a new discus today..=) his quite big compared to my other 3.
i was in shock when i learnt from the aquarium owners, that its not good to do daily water changes... as it flushes away too many good bacterias. one aquarium owner told me he does about 2inches of water change fortnightly, yet his discus look good and healthy. this news shocked me for i've been gathering all my resources from simplydiscus.com, and the number one priority here seems to be water changes.. can someone reassure my dillemma?
i got a cosmo 2000 pump for $50 today also... but now im hesitating for w/c's... enlighten me please ???

[mikezz]

All I can say is this and I get all my info from Simply Discus.........
Clean water means happy Discus. I have learned the hard way..........

[Carol_Roberts]

Discus are different than other tropical fish. It is easiest to maintain discus health in a clean, bare bottom tank with daily water changes and clean filters.

Some discus are hardier than others and can get by with a dirtier enviorment.

[Jono]

thanks guys i think i'll continue with my water changes..
but isnt it hard to do daily water changes yet keep the same level of all water parameters?
no matter what my discus will hide when people are around.. and only come out to eat when the coast is clear.. i love it when they stretch their top and bottom fins out.. but my discus always have their fins down...
any suggestions to prevent them from hiding so much?? its getting irratating.. :(

[Howie_W]

If your keeping your holding tank aerated, and at the same temperature, you should not have any problems with your water changes.

Stay patient with your fish. Overtime, they should become used to you and greet you...especiallywhen they know food is coming.

Howie

[Jono]

does aerated mean, stir the water??
to stable the ph level??

i'm testing out this idea..
since theres traffic around my tank.. i've put a towel over the tank so all walls are curtained.. and i'll open the towel to feed them..
do u think that they eventually get use to it, whenever they see me is when i open the towel and feed them.. do you think that'll get them to greet me for food?

[Carol_Roberts]

Aerating the water does mean to stir or agitate the water.

I would not cover the front of the tank. Leave one side open so they can see you walk up to the tank. My tanks are open on all 4 sides - they get used to you in a couple of weeks.

[Jono]

i think i was getting impatient...
but you reassured me again carol thanks.
my discus never eat granules or flakes, but one time one discus ate some and i dunno if it was just me, but it colors did look brighter..
how can i make them eat the granules.. i have some tetra bit and specrum discus formulas, is it god to try and feed both?

[Howie_W]

Try holding off food for a day, then in the morning try feeding some flake or pellets (fish will always be the most hungry in the morning). If you've primarily been feeding beefheart, blood worms, shrimp etc., it's not unusual that they aren't interested in the other foods. If your first attempt doesn't work, wait a week, then give it another shot, possibly holding off a bit longer before the first feeding.

If you try some of the foods such as tetrabit, make sure you soak it first before placing into the tank...these foods expand in water, and can bloat your fish...no reason not to use them, but something to be aware of.

Howie

[Jono]

hey guys, again the discus are acting extra strange lately.. im hoping that i juss need a good w/c to fix things up.. currently their the type of discus nobody wants.. hiding in the corner dark and not eating properly.. :'(
is there an effective method to cope with stress, kuz it looks like they have plenty of it. im just soooooooooo eager to have them greet me when i come to feed them.. :(
when i do water changes.. my ph to my tank to my aged water sometimes doesnt really match... would that be a BIG NO NO to put it together anyway?
these are my babies.. they looking unhealthy or what?

[Carol_Roberts]

How far apart is the pH of the tank water and the pH of the change water?

[Jono]

the tank is on 7.2, the change water is on 7.8
i've been considering to get myself an aquaclear 300..
would this filter be of any difference to my internal aquaball filter?
would it do a much better job of cleaning the water and in maintaining the filter?
is there a way of doing water changes without scaring the hell out of my fish? :-\

[Carol_Roberts]

the tank is on 7.2, the change water is on 7.8 You may be able to change straight from the tap

i've been considering to get myself an aquaclear 300..
would this filter be of any difference to my internal aquaball filter? I don't know what an aquaball filter is. I use an aqua clear 500 on a 55 -75 gallon tank

would it do a much better job of cleaning the water and in maintaining the filter? Aqua clear is the filter I use

is there a way of doing water changes without scaring the hell out of my fish? Pumping water in the tank during refills is less scary than dumping in buckets

[Jono]

thanks alot carol...
had a bit of a scare, when i looked closely in my tank and saw tiny white dots, that were jumping and skimming on the bottom of my tank... they looked like little fleas or something!
i immediately put all my discus into the ageing barral again...
what do i do ??? ??? ??? ???

things are just getting worse and worse for me.. maybe discus aint my thing.. :'(

[Jono]

sorry carol... what do u mean by change straight from the tap??

Jono: Sorry I don't have time to read the whole thread and the changes that you have made. If I mention anything it has been said. Just ignore it. Looking at your last pic. Your fish is stress and it has not been eating properly for a while. Prolonged stress will lead to opportunistic bacteria taking advantages of the low immunity and start attacking and taking contol of your fish. IMHO. I'll raise the temp. to 92 degree without delay and apply a lot of salt. Starting 2 table spoons per 10 gal and adding one tablespoon every 4 hours for 3 more dose. No feeding unless they start nibbling at the bottom to take in salt. I won't worry about feeding until they get their fluid balance through osmosis and get rid of the itchness from the gill and salt is a also act as a mild antiseptic solution.

W/C the next day and replace salt. If they start nibbling at the bottom of your tank. Give them a small amount of frozen blood worm. Just wait and observe. Hope they will turn around. If you see white slimmy substance on their fins. Add a few drops of Methy. blue. Otherwise it's not necessary.

I'm not sure if you have used any med. on them. From the cloudy water. Your filter is lacking good Nitrobactors. Salt can control the poisonus Nitrite and 50% W/C daily is a must. 20-25% of fresh water straight from the tap is acceptable. Anything higher should be aged. Adding water with a few degree lower will perk up their spirit provided you have a higher voltage heating system.

Aquarclear is a hang on filter that were rated very high for ease of maintenance, effectiveness and durablity. HTH
Jimmy

[Carol_Roberts]

The little skittery bugs on the bottom of the tank are copepods. They don't attack discus, but are a symptom of too much food/dirty water. Copepods are very hard to get rid of. Keep their numbers in check with daily water changes and avoid overfeeding/leaving food in the tank. It's OK to see a few on the bottom of the tank when you turn the lights on.

[Jono]

hey thanks for the great posts guys...
i'm going to try your procedure out jimmyL...
did u want me to use aquarium salt, or just salt we eat?? kuz the salt we eat seems to really cloud the water... is that ok..?
and during this process how long am i suppose to not feed them??
is methy blue very nescesary? because i dont have any..
i'll follow the procedure with normal table salt..
please keep me updated with instructions...
thank you very much everyone..

[aggie_67]

Better to use salt without iodine: kosker or pickling salt. Aquarium salt is good too, it's just very expensive.

[Jono]

but they say different salts have different effects??
true??

[Carol_Roberts]

Table salt, pickling salt, rock salt, kosher salt and aquarium salt are all the same thing (sodium chloride)

Sea salt has other chemichals like calcium and magnesium

Epsom salt is Magnesium sulfate (used for constipation)

[Jono]

thanks carol..
would you be able to add anything to what jimmy suggested to me?
im keeping them in 2 table spoons of salt per 10g.. and not feeding them..
this has been kept up for 2 days.. what do you thinks the next best move carol?? ::)

[Carol_Roberts]

I'm not sure exactly what JimmyL intended. I would offer some blood worms and see if they eat them. What symptoms are they exhibiting now?

[Jono]

hey guys,
things are finally looking a little better for the discus.. i've recently got a new blue diamond.. he settled in well.. they were starting to get excited when i go to feed them.. but that could be kuz i stopped feeding them for 1 day..
everyone seems to eat but very peckishly and shy.. well i'll show pics to see if u can tell that their a little healthier..

[Jono]

here they are.. looking healthier though still hiding

[Jono]

doesnt it look like their joined for a split second?
;D

[Jono]

the LFS told me this was a blue cobalt...
but i know for a fact its not a blue cobalt.. but still not sure what this fish is.. still a newbie..
i'm guessing blue turquoise... am i right??

[Jono]

i got a hold of
nitrite
nirate
ammonia test kits... (i know i should have had them ages ago)
but am not 100% sure what levels are good for discus?

is it?
nitrite - 0
ammonia - 0
nitrate - 40ppm

[Jono]

another question..

i recently got a new filter.. auqaclear 300, and a 200w heater.. wheres the best flow spot to have the heater.. for i notice the temp is on 92F but it reads 82-84F.. but it is winter in australia.. would this temperture problem affect the discus?

[Carol_Roberts]

Ammonia and nitrITe zero, nitrAte less than 5.

Put the heater right by the filter so the warm water is dispersed through out the tank. 82/84 is a good temperature.

[Jono]

my blue diamonds tail fin is like kind of rotting away or something ??? ???
its got white tips and seems to be missing bits of the fin..
could this be another discus attacking him or a sickness?

[FloridaFishGuy]

Im a beginner like you Jono but I think it its Fin Rot and not the other discus picking on him.

[Carol_Roberts]

Could just be one fish picking on another or could be filter not fully cycled (ammonia). Your fish looked pretty healthy in the pictures. Are eyes still bright red?

[Jono]

eyes are still red..
though they still dont seem to be eating properly.. could some more water changes fix that up??
the blue diamond seems to be kinda healing from that white stuff on his fin
if u can see it below..
this is after i gave a nice water change.. looks clean.. ;D
love my digital camera

[Jono]

below is my white pigeon, he use too look much better.. :-\

[Jono]

just posting some pics..
i can stare at this picture for so long...
:o

[krandrus]

Some of the experienced discus keepers can confirm this, but from what I have seen you don't have to worry about that white stuff on the fins. My fish are about your size and they do the same thing from time to time. I think that it is just shedding mucus and little splits due to stress and nips from the bigger discus. Keep the water clean and they will heal up in no time. It has to get a lot more serious than that before you get to fin rot, which from what I have read here is a rare disease with discus.

[Howie_W]

Jono,

Look like you're on the right track. Just think...in only 60 posts we've gone from talking about sending your fish to the rose bed, to getting them back to good health! :)

Howie

[Alan]

Hi Jono,

Looks like you were adding more fish to a stressed group of fish already. That's a sure way to create more problems.

Make a note of this one for future additions of discus: You have to quarantine new fish first before you join them with your existing ones.

My 2 cents for now is to give time for your fish to settle down and observe (about 4 to 6 weeks) how they are doing and ask advice from this forum when you see something different about your fish. Most of all stop buying more discus ;D I know how exciting it can get to see new discus but you have to learn how to be patient.

I would also go with a "python", or something similar, for water changes instead of buying a pump.


Alan

[daveycrockett]

You can send me one of the yellow ones in the pic of the three discus ;D
I second waiting to buy more fish for ahwile. Your discus will get friendlier with time ,my recent group I bought they took a couple of months to relax. They would crash into the tank at the site of me.

[andy187]

do you think its o.k to put albino and rainbow sharks with discus,but onli small ones......or would it be to agressive on the discus??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? i have a weird passion for albino and rainbowz ;D ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

It's best for beginners to keep a species only discus tank.

[andy187]

thanx......carol,jus one more question would it be safe to put small or baby sharks with them??? or jus the one species only discus tank. because i relised that the sharks dont chase bigger fish........

[Howie_W]

A smaller size shark will exhibit the same behavior; they move much faster in the water than Discus, are generally more agressive, and will regularly harass them...not a good tank mate for Discus under any circumstances.

Howie

[Carol_Roberts]

No sharks.

[Jono]

due to the replies and advice from simplydiscus, i've finally got healthier discus. they react much better to food. colors are standing out better..
any good feeding tips?? ;D
here they are again.. i got an additional orange discus...
the LFS told me its a siam gold.. though im guessing its a tangerine..
can someone tell me what this fish is?

[Jono]

curious fishies ;D ;D ;D

[Jono]

group shot

[Carol_Roberts]

Tsk. tsk. Quarantine all new fish for 4 - 6 weeks before adding to your existing stock ;)

[Discus_Newbie19]

I have had my discus for a couple months... glad I havent had problems yet!!!
I would be stressed right out going through what Jono has :o

[Jono]

yeh im kinda lazy when it comes to the quarantine.. :P
but it seems to be ok... well hopely it'll be... touch wood.. :D
can anyone tell me what the name of the orange fish is????
and also the blue straighted one??
is it tangerine & blue turk??

[Jono]

eye candy

[Jono]

ooooooooooooo :o
see through discus

[Discus_Newbie19]

You should take thier advise and QT save you alot of hassel in the future.

[Carol_Roberts]

Names don't mean a lot with discus. Yours sound close to me ;D

[Jono]

look at the improvment in color guys....
ooooo... ;D ;D ;D
those colorbits are great

[Jono]

i'm looking for a yellow discus just like this beauty..
if anyone wants to pack and send with a reasonable price to
sydney australia... please let me know.. thank you
:-*

[Jono]

better yet something like this
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o

[Jono]

a question that i've heard people talk about.. is what to do if your going on a holiday... i'm going on a holiday at the end of the year...
but the scary thing is i'll be gone for a month..
that sounds much too long to not feed and no water changes.. can someone please give me some ideas and advice for that one?

(juss to prepare before it comes around)

[Jono]

hey guys..
some of my fish are spitting back out the food. and actually have trouble eating it.. pecking at the food several times but always missing the food.. they didnt have a problem with this before.. also noticed little white mucas like substance floating around.. any ideas?
dont tell me they sick again >:(

[Carol_Roberts]

Just relax and keep up the water changes. They may be just fine.

[Jono]

sheesh.. your like a discus mother carol..
those simple words just make me feel at ease again.. :D
their still eating and look perfectly normal.. maybe just over reacting
although i got those skittery bugs again >:(
but thanks once again.. ;D

[Jono]

just a little question on feeding..
how much is a good amount to feed 6 discus in a feeding session?
i would usually give them 1 small block of blood worms with a pinch or 2 of granules.
though i see LFS give 2-3 larger blocks of blood worms..
am i not feeding them enough?
carol with your non dissolving beefheart recipe.. how much of that do you serve each feeding session? :)

[Jono]

hey guys i got new fishies

[Jono]

..

[Jono]

..

[kaceyo]

Hi Jono. I've been following your thread since it started and can tell you are truely addicted to discus. Right now you are gowing through a stage called denial. Your getting some of the best advise available but your denying the parts you don't want to hear. Yes Jono, I'm talking about your continually buying new fish and putting them in the same tank as your old fish. Whats worse, your doing it at a time when the health of your first fish is in question(real or not). I'm only writting you because I hate seeing you make mistakes that WILL end in disaster when you've only got to follow the advice you came here to get to avoid it. I think you've got what it takes to do well with your fish. With the money you've spent on new fish you could have gotten a QT tank. One more piece of advise. Get a notebook and when you have questions go through the sections on Simply relating to your question and read,read,read. Take notes and in your spare time read even the stuff that seems not to relate to your current problems.I keep my notebook next to my keyboard at all times and rarely go a day without some gem of info going in it for later use. Well...Ididn't mean to make this into an all day read. Basicly, don't pick and chose which advise you want to follow, and NO MORE FISH for now. Good luck, Kaceyo

[Jono]

mmmm nice post kaceyo.. thanks
i'll keep what you said in mind... a QT tank sounds great.. so do a few more tanks... but i live in an apartment
unfortuneatly my space is very limited..
i'll stop buying more fish.. and try to maintain what i have now..
the world "disaster" brings scary thoughts to my head
take care guys! thanks once again ;D

[Jono]

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[Jono]

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[kaceyo]

Jono, You really do have some nice fish there. Where are you getting them, an lfs? Kaceyo

[Jono]

yeh, i get them from a LFS, can u believe that the man who sold it to me told me water changes are bad... and that he changes about maximum 1 bucket in 2 weeks??? *shrugZ* no idea what the story is there.. but water changes work for me so i'll stick to them..
i cant say his lying or he doesnt kno what his doing.. because his discus are the best LFS discus i can find around here... :P

[Jono]

anyone know what it means when 2 discus peck at each others lips like their kissing?? looks weird but cute ::)

[oodi]

Jono,

They are fighting... either to establish dominance, or a prelude to mating behavior. Nothing to worry about, for the most part... unless one of the fish is being picked on excessively.

Judi
:)