Should I start with a planted tank or bare bottom tank?

[fish_maniac]

Hi,
I am a beginner to the Discus. I current have a planted tank and I would like to used it for the Discus. Should I leave the plant in or take them all out?
I checked around but didn't find an answer to this question. I think the plant is nice but I afraid it will keep the maintenance harder and the fish may hide all the time. I am thinking to put the plant into a clay pot with bare bottom to help on maintenance, Will this work? Any suggestion/advise is welcome.
Kam

[Carol_Roberts]

Hi Kam and welcome to SimplyDiscus :wave:
Bare bottom is the best way to learn to care for discus. Juveniles do best in bare bottom tanks for any skill levels.

Read through the beginner index it will answer many of your questions and feel free to ask any others you may think of.

[fish_maniac]

Hi Carol,
Thank you for the fast reply. I found the section and the answer. You guys are greats! I will read some more and get ready for the Discus.

Kam

[krandrus]

I have not kept discus for very long, but I have a different opinion from most of the esteemed keepers on this site, you have to do what you think is best for you and the fish.

Plants are very important to some people. I only have one tank and I believe that is essential that it be planted. You know the advantages such as increased utilization of nitrates, more diverse grazing, and hiding places for the fish; along with beauty for you.

My discus have grown their half an inch in the last month even though I am raising them in a planted tank. They may not get to 7-8 inches because they were not raised in a corral environment, but not everyone needs to raise champions.

The way I look at it is most pigs you see at state fairs weigh well in excess of what they should weigh according to nature. Farmers go for that size because of the inherrent increase in food value. The wild caught discuss I have seen are not nearly as large as the bare bottom "corral" fish that are espoused on this sight as perfect. So who is to say that raising these oversized discus is the way to go. Afterall, the big pigs have health problems that their more svelte wild cousins do not.

I would encourage you to join me in raising those discus in a planted tank. Keep it clean and lower your bioload to accomodate for the fish you require to keep is clean and to give the plants room, but give it a try.

Either way you go, the advice you get here is priceless and growing out discus is very exciting. If you decide to go planted, it appears from the info on this site that your fish may not reach their maximum size, but ask yourself is that why you are in this. I will never put my discus throught the stress of showing them to others, and I will likely never become a commercial breeder. So I asked myself... will a little smaller fish be ok. My answer is, as long as they are healthy I don't care.

Just had to get that off my chest. I know that I will probably get shot down for this and become a pariah, but I think that this viewpoint needs to be shared as well.

Best of luck,
Kevin

[Howie_W]

I've raised Discus using both planted and bare bottom set-ups. Although it's possible to go the planted route, it's much harder to do, and the chances are high that your fish will never reach their full size.

If you're starting out for the first time, bare bottom is the way to go.

Howie

[aggie_67]

I started out with potted plants, thought I could have the best of both worlds, but soon went to just a bare tank. It is hard enough to learn how to keep discus, why make life more complicated by adding plants. Once I learn then I may try a planted tank? Not even sure about that now, utterly amazing how much poop my little friends generate each day. They are enough work as is, sure wouldn't want to vacumn gravel each day too,

[fish_maniac]

Hi, Thank you for the advise and bringing up the different point of views. All the advises here are priceless.
I agree with Kevin about the size and environment of the fish. I have a 65gal tank that has Frontosa, Peacock and an Electric Blue. Since I want to keep the belly of the frontosa full, I feed my fish a lot with Shrimp, blood worm and different kind of dry food 3 to 4 times a day. The frontosa are doing great but the Electric blue is too fat since he ate a lot every time. I may give have to give up the Electric blue even though he looks great with beautiful color (except too fat). So I don't want/need my discus to be too fat also.
I also think the plant will help me to create an equilibrium/cycle/environment in my fish tank so that it is better for the fish. From reading the forum, it is a lot of work to change water all the time and vacuum the gravel each day too. My wife already think I spent too much time talking to my fishes even though it is not true :). That is why I thought I can put the plant in a pot with the bare bottom but I don't think it will work well.
So I guess I may do the bare bottom for the small discus and may be with the plant when I move them to the big tank. At least for now, I may change my mind tomorrow since I still have the plant in my tank.
I breed African cichlid as a hobbyist so I am sure I would like to breed Discus in the future. Breeding the fish is half of the fun. Foe me, nothing is happier to watch 200 babies Green Terrors swimming from one side to the other side of the tank or 50 Daffodil swimming around with the mom :). I am looking forward for my discus babies following their parent and eating away some days!
Thanks again for sharing the experience!

[jn4u]

Well this with keeping discus with plants or not is always a question. But still if you choose to keep the discus in a plant free environment remember that you don’t have anything that help to break down the nitrit levels. Gravel in the bottom also helps to get a more stable aquarium environment.

The grow rate are not only related to gravel in the tank. Discus that lives in a stable environment and are given a lot of live food full with plants also grow very fast. My first 8 years with never heard about tanks with out gravel.

If you choose to have a small tank with out a gravel and small filter and then start to feed heavy on beef heart it’s very fast fool the water. Lighter food in a plant can also be a good solution.

Why do I keep my discus in tanks with no plant or gravel? It’s simpler to clean the tank, transfer the fish to different breeding tanks etc. But I also need to change water much more often compare with my heavy planted tanks.

When it comes to shyness my experience it that is not related to number of plants Bad water quality (not pH) more biological cycle in the tank gives a discus that are shy.

Well this is a planted tank...
http://discusfish.nu/blogger/images/37/r_0079.jpg

This is a poted plant tank. I promice that this plant helped alot to keep the water very good. With this group of tefe discus.
http://discusfish.nu/blogger/images/24/r_0126.jpg

This is a clean tank. Well some tree roots. But still
http://discusfish.nu/blogger/images/39/r_discus110.jpg

[Discus_Newbie19]

Have you thought bout buying Adult Discus and keeping your tank planted?

[fish_maniac]

Jn4u, Thank you for the beautiful examples of the different setups. I was planning to put the plant in the pot as in your middle setup to minimize the cleanup. I also have some "moss ball" that may help on the water quality.

DIscus_newbie19...initially, i was planning to have some baby and raise them up. After reading more, i think I should get as least 2.5 to 3 inches size. You are right, may be I should get even bigger one so that it may be easier for me to take care the fishes in the beginning. Especially, most of the small fishes may not grow up like the parent. I may look for a bigger fish when I am ready. Is the adult around 5 inches in size?

Thanks.

Kam

[Carol_Roberts]

Depends on the care in raising and the variety of discus. 5 inches is a good size for a planted tank.

[fish_maniac]

Thanks. For my small tank (30g), I can't house too many 5 inches Discus (may be 2 to 3, 4 max) especially with the plant! I guess I should do Bare bottom for the small tank and may be plant for the bigger tank.

Kam

[shalu]

My experience has also been a bit different from most people on this board. I have kept a "hi-tech"(3wpg, CO2 with ph controller, nutrient doser) 100g planted tank for almost two years now. I have pretty much gotten the hang of planted tank.

Having read so much advice against growing out discus in a planted tank here, I decided to grow out my juv. in a bb tank first. I bought over a dozen 2-3" juvs this Feb-March. Some from Cary, some from a reputable local importer. The whole tank got Hex during initial quarantine period in BB, so I cured them with Metro. Then I took some fish out and put them in the planted tank, I wanted to do a side by side comparison.

Now 2.5 months after that, here is the result: my BD and SnowFlake(female from Cary) have spawned last week in my planted tank at 4.5"??? How can that be, they are still growing fast and at about 7 months old? I know they are not hormoned because a) the female is from Cary b) they are not spotted strains. Anyway, the growth rate in the bb is about the same. However, the fish in the BB had TWO recurring Hex during that period, and the fish in the planted tank remained healthy. Apparently, my 40% daily water change in the BB tank is still not enough! I do only 40% WC weekly in the planted tank and everybody is happy. To me, planted tank is so much less work compared to BB, there is no contest! I am planning to move all my Juv to the planted tank soon. Just another perspective.

[Carol_Roberts]

I'd put an adult pair in that size tank. Adults do not need to be in groups of 6

[fish_maniac]

Shalu and Carol,
Thanks for the additional info. I will look for an adult pair!

Kam

[JeffreyRichard]

Depends on the care in raising and the variety of discus. 5 inches is a good size for a planted tank.


Carol, I'm curious where you came up with this figure? Not sure where the concept that adult discus can be kept in a planted tank, but juvenial discus can't ... I need someone to explain that to me. :-\

I continue to rattle against the mainstream ... bare-bottom is not necessary to have thriving discus.

Is it easier? Yes ...

But keeping a planted tank is work in itself. I've found that having a balanced natural tank was much harder to achieve than raising healthy discus.

That said, if you have healthy discus and grow/keep them in a planted tank, you should necessarily have problems. You need to make sure the right plants are used. Of course, you can't "force-feed" your discus in order to max out growth, but fast growth in itself is neither a requirement for all keepers or necessary for healthy discus.

[Carol_Roberts]

Most beginners have a hard time growing out discus, especially in planted, graveled tanks. Many will buy 3 inch fish that stay 3 inches. I think 5 inches is a good enough sized adult. If it doesn't grow any more you can still be proud to show it off in a 55 gallon tank. Fish that have made it to that size may be hardier than three inch fish on average. These are all just my opinions ;D

[JeffreyRichard]

Most beginners have a hard time growing out discus, especially in planted, graveled tanks. Many will buy 3 inch fish that stay 3 inches.

Not sure what you are infering here ... is it that planted tank stunt the growth of discus, or that beginners have problems with discus growth no matter what the tank is like?

I'm not buying the "most beginners have a hard time ..." completely. I would say "some' or a "siginifanct number" of beginners ... there is a HUGE difference between "some" and "most" ...

I would say fish keepers fall into two catagories ... successful and unsuccessful. For the most part, unsuccessful keepers either acquire bad fish, experience bad luck (power outages, tank/equipment failures, etc.) or JUST DON'T GET IT (treating an aquarium as a closed system requiring care and feeding). Regardless of whether a discus is kept in a planted tank or a bare bottom tank, keepers in this category are NOT going to have success no matter what advice they get

Now, the successful keeper has acquired quality stock, doesn't have any terrible luck, and GETS IT ... understands the concept of care & feeding. I submit that this group of keepers CAN be successful with young discus in a planted tank ... 3 inch discus will grow and thrive.

let me go back to my question ... is it easier to keep discus healthy in a bare-bottom tank? Yes it is ... BUT it is not a stretch for a beginner to have success with young discus in a planted tank.

IMO it is a disservice to dismiss the planted tank concept, or the less water change concept. I believe in full disclosure ... the merits and pitfalls of the multiple approaches.

It is important that the reader NOT walk away with the idea "oh, that must be THE way for me to be successful". They should recognize that there are many approaches and different ways to be successful, depending on their requirements and resources.

OK, I'll get down off the soapbox now ... thanks for listening ...

[aggie_67]

I believe that there are many ways to raise discus just as there are many "diet" plans these days. All will probably work if you follow the basics. Carol is here for us almost day and night helping with our problems so personally I am going to follow her recommendations. Know that if I run into trouble she will be there to help.

My problem is with people who don't want to follow someones advise, but when they run into problems they want them to save them.