Thought provoking to say the least

[Lou]

Here are two very interesting articles on medicating aquarium fish. They have definately got me re-thinking some things.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/antibac.shtml

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/bactin.shtml

-Lou

[oodi]

Interesting indeed!

Although I don't think I agree with the theory that we should never medicate fish, I do agree that meds can be over used. We hear about it with humans all the time... after prolonged periods of taking a particular medication, that medication becomes ineffective. It only makes sense that the same reasoning would apply to fish, or any other animal.

Some have said that in their experience, their wilds are hardier than their domestics. Could it be that the wilds have a better/more developed immune system? Any thoughts?

Judi
:)

[Lou]

Hey Judi,

I would say that antibiotics are being WAAYYY overused. I work for a very large, national environmental group. One of their programs is on antibiotic resistance. In my converstions with the scientists and lawyers who work on it, the overuse of antibiotics in ornamental fish is a problem, but such a small slice of the pie that they don't even deal with it. That being said, I don't think we as hobbyists should be irresponsible or flagrant in our use of medicines. My feeling has always been that we way over medicate our fish. That feeling has only been reinforced as of late. I believe the best course of action is still to start with healthy stock from a reliable source, QT (but just observe) and then provide optimal conditions. I will never medicate "just in case" again.

In terms of wilds, my feelings (based on anecdotal evidence) are that wilds do have a stronger immune system, in ways that makes logical sense. They are not as inbred as domestics and they have more pathogens to battle with daily. Basically there immune system is constantly in "training".

-Lou

[Anonapersona]

Some have said that in their experience, their wilds are hardier than their domestics. Could it be that the wilds have a better/more developed immune system? Any thoughts?

Judi
:)


Our discus are very much the "boy in the bubble" as far as developing resistance to stuff.

[Anonapersona]

With this in mind....

I think we ought to work on developing "Best Practice" that will help new fish keepers to use the least toxic remedy first.

Like... Salt
How many discus keepers ever salt dip a fish upon purchase? Is this ever done? I've read about that with other fish but I don't recall seeing it proposed here. I read that it will strip off most external parasites with the slime coat, and afterwards the fish is put into clean water. I've done it on fish that were wild caught but not discus. Are they just too sensitive to dip?

Then... Hydrogen Peroxide
I read that it controls flukes (gyro and dacts) on goldfish when the fish is dipped into a 10% solution (10% with common drug store strength H2O2) for 10 seconds. Stronger concentrations were suggested for other fish but goldfish are sensitive. I've posted this before hoping that someone who has some culls (to possibly sacrifice) might try it. Has anyone done this? Can it be used successfully on discus at this strength or at any strength?

And... epsom salts
I've read that both metro and prazi are more effective if the gut is first cleaned out with epsom salts. Shouldn't that be the first thing we reach for, before Metro? Maybe some of our Hex is really just a nasty bit of spoiled food that was found and lead to a sick gut.

Finally... tea tree oil
Not an anti-bacterial, not a bactericide, but a bacteria-static, it just stops the progress of bacteria so the fish can catch up. I've seen it stop columnaris, or maybe it was just a coincidence that the dying stopped the same day the Melafix started. I don't see anyone around here ever mention it.

Oh, one more... Neosporine
I've read it can be used on fish, just pat dry and apply the cream not the ointment, for wounds. Anybody ever try that?

[Giniel]

Hi Anonapersona,
I haven't tried all of these, but I have dabbed hydrogen peroxide on a discus' tail and it along with salt and lots of water changes stopped tail rot.

HTH
Giniel

Finally... tea tree oil
Not an anti-bacterial, not a bactericide, but a bacteria-static, it just stops the progress of bacteria so the fish can catch up. I've seen it stop columnaris, or maybe it was just a coincidence that the dying stopped the same day the Melafix started. I don't see anyone around here ever mention it.



Check out the source regarding TTO:

http://www.ttexport.com.au/

It is an antibacterial, antiviral substance and more. This link is written by a specialist (doctor) in Australia.

[Anonapersona]

More info, neither pro nor con, well, maybe just skeptical...http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/herbal.shtml