Tank Shape

[Cosmo]

Over the past twenty odd years I've lost all the Discus in a tank on two occassions. The first time was due to a heater malfunction (about 1981), the second probably due to water quality issues (about 1993).

The second one got me wondering if the shape of the tank had anything to do with it as they were in a 45 gal hex tank. Back i those days I had UG's w/ power filters and I started wondering if the surface area of the bottom was too small for the depth of the tank. Never kept Discus in a hex tank again after that one.

More recently I bought a 30 gal cube, thinking it would be a good size for breeding, but every pair I put in there (despite optimal water quality) not only wouldn't spawn, but, after a couple weeks began to look and act sickly till I moved them out back into the community tank (where they spawned like crazy).

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed any problems with odd non rectangular tanks, or, if it's maybe just because I'm odd ???

Jim

[korbi_doc]

:bounce2: I'm not very experienced in breeding, but the one batch that I raised was in my only 65g hex tank. The male was the redss that drove everyone mad in the community tank, had wigglers 5 times with 2 different females. At the time I wanted none of it. Placed him in a 20g with another for company & both just sat there looking so sad. So I put him in the 65g hex tank with the female & they raised quite a brood. Had I known to separate them after eggs hatched, would've had a big spawn, but the female laid another batch & proceeded to eat the free swimmers. Dad did a great job raising the rest. Live & learn & they did teach me a lot, but the tank, tho very deep was no problem to them. I was under the impression that a 30g would make a great breeder size, guess it'll have to be larger?? Maybe it would make a difference if the tanks are side by side so they can see other fish. Hopefully we'll hear from the more experienced ppl here, Dottie 8)

[ShinShin]

I'm surprised your discus did not do well in the 30 gal. cube tank. It offers the depth (front to back, not top to bottom) discus perfer to feel secure. To me, it would be a perfect set-up. I don't recommend hex tanks, although, it can be done as was stated. To me, they are just an unattractive way to display any type of fish.

[Cosmo]

ShinShin,

that's what I thought too on the cube... plenty of room all around. Makes no sense to me.. thinking something to do with current flow or something ???

Jim

[ShinShin]

I just assumed you had a sponge filter and that should be no problem.

[Anonapersona]

the surface area of a hex is rather small, for the volume, but filtration can make up for that.

What filtration did you have?

[ShinShin]

Anonapersona - Please, explain how filtration will make up for surface area for gas exchange. Undergravel filters w/powerheads were being used. I agree hex tanks have insufficient surface area for the volume especially if housing large bodied fish. :) Thanks, ;)

[Don_Lee]

I think that the longer the tank, and the more surface area, the better. Really depends in part on your goals for the tank...........planted types like deeper tanks for example. Personally, I would look for the length and the depth of the tank as most important, unless the tank is very short the height is not important and is only for show.

Don ;D

[Anonapersona]

Anonapersona - Please, explain how filtration will make up for surface area for gas exchange. Undergravel filters w/powerheads were being used. I agree hex tanks have insufficient surface area for the volume especially if housing large bodied fish. :) Thanks, ;)


If you have a HOB filter that spills water a short distance as it returns to the tank, or a biowheel that might add more effective surface area. I have a Millenium filter that includes a bubbler in the system, and the Plen Plax Cascade seem to have a biosurface in the spillway to act as a wet/dry. Then an actual wet/dry should add a lot of oxygen as it runs through the tubing to the sump area. An airdriven sponge filter could add oxygen also. A canister with a spray bar turned upward or above the water surface would add aeration.

OTOH, a canister with below surface returns would not add much oxygen. Nor a HOB filter with very high water level to minimize splash. I don't think a powerhead running a UGF would add a lot of aeration, in comparison to the others mentioned above.

[Cosmo]

Ann, it's only been 11 years or so w/ the hex tank, but it seems so much longer ago :( try hard as I can but can't remember for sure.. was the only tank I had setup at the time.. the loss was devasting and I "hung up" everything for a couple years afterwards .. could be I have those memories too deeply buried ? Only clear memory is of all my beautiful fish laying dead on the bottom :( (and the guilt of knowing that it was my fault) :'(

May not have been the shape of the tank that was the culprit (which is why I'm curious if others have had problems with the hex tanks) ... young children, work a holic, not alot of time for WC's back then (hence the guilt)

ShinShin, on the 30 - first time around had a small eheim echo with the output "t"'d to keep current down w/ a sponge prefilter as well as a small bottom mounted sponge filter - second time used a large side mounted sponge filter. 50% WC's and cleaned daily both times, same result both configs.

Suspected the culprit was the breeding cone I had bought (the only constant), but the guy who made it swears he sells them to breeder friends who never have problems. (threw it away anyway just in case)..

Ann - did you ever figure out the PP problem you had last week? been meaning to ask..

Jim

[Cosmo]

Ann, always ran the penguin powerheads back then w/ the water directed upwards to help aerate.. went to bio wheels shortly after they came out, but don't remember if this is what was on the hex..

switched to an emporor 400 when I finally setup my 55 again and it did a great job.. can't use them on acrylic tanks though, so have my all cannisters return thru sparybars pointed upwards to provide surface agitation for the very reason you mentioned - plus, reduces current in the tank

Jim

[Anonapersona]

My best guess is that the water in the storage bucket still had chlorine. I can't remember if I had done a water change before the PP treatment, I think I may have as the water didn't look as clear as normal after my trip overnight. If so, I would have filled the bucket up only a few hours earlier and the bucket does not have good agitation to speed the chlorine dissipating. It is fine after 24 hours, but not after 3 or 4.

The fact that the fish swam well at first then got worse makes me think it was chlorine. With the PP having stripped the slime coat, the chlorine could have blinded the fish I think. It sure acted blind.

[April]

its the undergravel filter that made your discus ill...they cant take any bioloads..and undergravel filters are a big no no..
also..if your filters cant keep up with the bioload..then..your water will go bad ina 30 gallon square very quick. i used that size for my fry..but when they got to be about 2 inches..cause my water is very soft...and if the filters dont keep up..then..my ph starts to slide..and the babies died.
some breeders are in fact using 60 gallon or 48 gallons to raise fry now..and having great results. better water quality.
also..when you have fry..you have to be meticulous about keeping any uneaten food off the bottom or bacteria etc. .
bbs are very fast to produce ammonia when they die off. pairs slow down on their eating also..while breeding so..less food and cleaner food .

[Cosmo]

Hi April,

The UG was in the hex many years ago when they were thought to be good. Don't use em anymore.. none was in the 30 gal, and, never got any fry in it either :(

[ShinShin]

surface agitation enhances gas exchange. a simple airstone will accomplish this. the bioballs and wet/dry filters bring O2 to the colony of aroebic bacteria for their consumption, so actually, less O2 is returned from the filters than entered. only the agitation from the return water, breaking the surface water adds to the O2 exchange.

[April]

yes i realize it was many years ago. im sure we all tried those wondrous new..inventions..the underground filters. lol.
i had a pair who wouldnt lay in the 30. same thing put them back in the community tank..and then..eggs on the downpipe.

[Anonapersona]

surface agitation enhances gas exchange. a simple airstone will accomplish this. the bioballs and wet/dry filters bring O2 to the colony of aroebic bacteria for their consumption, so actually, less O2 is returned from the filters than entered. only the agitation from the return water, breaking the surface water adds to the O2 exchange.


Sure, I can agree to that, some filters add a lot of surface agitation, others do not.